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Old 2-Apr-2013, 4:47 PM   #1
Scott1234
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Antenna selection/setup for towers 80 degrees apart

I am new to setting up antennas and would like some help figuring out the best antenna and setup. I will mount the antenna 30 feet high on top of the house and use the former Satellite coaxial and hopefully the same spitter. I just bought a Clearstream 4 to try out, but not sure if I need to get something different. I did an indoor check with 25 feet of cable, and it would be great to get some help on the evaluation.

I am mainly interested in 5 channels that range up to 80 degrees apart. It appears the channels of interest are (real) 13(ABC), 19(FOX), 11(PBS), 46(NBC), 8(CBS) which are 64, 137, 133, 56, 140 degrees, respectively (some UHF and VHF). I set up the antenna inside the house pointing out a 2nd story window at ~45 degrees mag. This actually worked good for several channels including 13 and 19 which are ~60degrees apart, but no channel 46 or 8. Outdoors will likely get it. I was surprised this antenna indoors got 13 and 19 that are that far apart. Perhaps this antenna will be fine for me after I get it up on the roof.

From the roof, I need to push the signal to 2 TVs. Distance from the roof to my current splitter (from cancelled satellite service) is 80 feet, then 20 foot to one TV and 80 foot to the other TV.

Thanks in advance for any help on antenna, angle to point, amplifer needs, or anything else I am not thinking of.

In a perfect world, I would also like to get the ION channel 44 which is further out at 69 miles at 124 degrees. Any thoughts on feasability?

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Old 2-Apr-2013, 10:31 PM   #2
teleview
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ION will most likely not be received reliably with a NM(dB) signal strength number of minus -14.6 .

At tvfool , you can Test different antenna heights , make tvfool radar reports with the different antenna heights , higher and lower , get the NM(dB) number in to the single digit negative numbers or better yet , into the single digit or double digit positive numbers.

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The South East direction has the same and More receivable Networks then the north east direction.

And the the Very Strong Signal Strength Tv station/channels from the north east will also be received with a antenna aimed south east.

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Above the Peak Of The Roof in such a manner that reception is not blocked by the roof and house in the directions of , south east and north east.

Install a Winegard HD7698P antenna aimed at about 130 degree magnetic compass direction.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

Here are some roof top antenna mounts.

http://www.ronard.com/Tripods%200703/4712.html.

http://www.ronard.com/909911.html , use the 5 foot or 7 foot antenna mount.

http://www.ronard.com/34424560.html , use the #4560.

http://www.ronard.com/ychim.html.

http://www.ronard.com.

Buy the ronard antenna mounts at sloidsignal by typing the word ronard in the solidsignal search box or buy from ronard.

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Here are some places to buy antennas and ect. .

http://www.solidsignal.com.

http://www.amazon.com.

http://www.winegarddirect.com.

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Install a Antennas Direct CPA-19 preamp.

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For 1 Tv connected use No splitter.

For 2 Tv's connected use a , HFS-2D , 2 way splitter.

For 3 Tv's connected use a , HFS-3D , 3 way splitter.

Buy the HFS splitters at , http://www.solidsignal.com , or , http://www.hollandelectronics.com.

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As always , trees and tree leaves , plants and plant leaves , do a good job of , absorbing , multi-path/reflecting , blocking , OTA=Over The Air Digital Broadcast Tv Reception and so do buildings and other obstructions including your own roof and house.

It is best to install the HD7698P antenna at a location that has the least amount to no amount of obstructions of any type or kind in the directions of reception including your own roof and house.

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The Tv's Must Channel Scan for the Digital Broadcast Tv Channels , often named the 'Air Channels' or 'Antenna Channels' in the Tv Setup Menu because the Tv transmissions travel through the Air from the transmitting antenna to the receiving antenna.

Some Digital Tv's will Automatic channel scan for cable tv channels.

DO NOT channel scan for cable tv channels.

Go into the Tv Setup Menu and select , 'Air Channels' / 'Antenna Channels'.

Last edited by teleview; 3-Apr-2013 at 4:39 PM.
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Old 3-Apr-2013, 1:40 AM   #3
elmo
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You may need to get a VHF antenna too because the CS-4 is not the optimal antenna for real channels 13 and below, which are on the VHF side. You may get enough signal thru for the high VHF channels, but the lower ones will struggle. But the good thing is that you can get that and a UVSJ and the two can work together easily. If you are using the existing sat mount, by all means, put it up the CS-4 and see how it works for both groups by aiming directly at each, rescanning for channels, then measuring the channel strength for each. Then aim to the middle ground and repeat and compare. Middle ground might be defined as being in the 120 degree range or so, as those stations south-east of you will be the challenge. And as for 44, can you get it when you aim right at it? I'm betting not. In my experience, the best approach is to keep it as simple as possible and build out the system with what you need, as you determine that you have the need.
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Old 3-Apr-2013, 3:29 PM   #4
Scott1234
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More questions to the group

When siting an antenna, do you think it would be better to mount where there is a better path to clear sky, rather than through the trees, even though it is not in the most optimal bearing for where the antenna's are located?

It is strange that the best channel I receive is channel 13 with the CS-4. Why would that be given it is a UHF antenna?

Is it acceptable in this business to buy and assemble an antenna like the Winegard HD7698P, and, if it is not what you had hoped, return it after disassembling it?

Thanks!!

Last edited by Scott1234; 3-Apr-2013 at 5:14 PM.
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Old 3-Apr-2013, 5:31 PM   #5
teleview
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I am not fully understanding the first question about transmitting and receiving antenna location/aiming. The , clear sky , words applied to the rest of the question - are??

Tv reception antennas are aimed at the transmitting antenna towers.

The best transmission and reception happens when nothing is between the transmitting and receiving antennas.

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Strange reception has to do with variable factors , transmission signal strength , reception signal strength , the directions the transmitting / receiving antennas are aimed , transmission and receive antenna heights , interference , the lay of the land , buildings - hills - mountains - both near and far , signals that are reflected or not reflected , trees or no trees , and etc. .

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Check the return policies of solidsignal and amazon.
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Old 3-Apr-2013, 7:39 PM   #6
elmo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott1234 View Post
It is strange that the best channel I receive is channel 13 with the CS-4. Why would that be given it is a UHF antenna?
Any wire hooked to your antenna connection, is an antenna. How functional it is, depends. If towers are in your back yard, a paper clip probably works, for any signal. But once you get some distance between you and the towers, you have to get an antenna that's more optimized for the specific signal so that the tuner can function properly. Ch 13 is VHF, but it's not so far from the UHF side. The lower you go, the harder it is to receive the VHF station with a UHF design antenna. The UHF antenna will tune it to some degree, regardless, but just not as good as a VHF design can. If the difference is enough that your tuner drops out, you see it. But if the difference between say 60% and 80% signal strength is not noticeable, you'd be fine.

As for returning an antenna, just check the stores return policy. I've returned in the past. It was a CS-2 that had been returned and was marked down accordingly. My reception for Ch 11 was weak and I ended up with a HD7694p instead.
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Old 3-Apr-2013, 8:08 PM   #7
Scott1234
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Hi Teleview, As an example, if I point my antenna to say 130 degrees, it will be aiming through some trees. If I instead point the antenna at around 80 degrees it will be pointing to an area that is void of trees. I was wondering if the 80 degree heading would catch the signals from the towers better since it would have less obstruction.

Thanks!!
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Old 3-Apr-2013, 8:11 PM   #8
Scott1234
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Hi Guys, I noticed my Samsung TV does not have a signal meter, but my Toshiba TV does have one. In this case, I guess one is left with just viewing the channel to see if it comes in good enough.
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Old 3-Apr-2013, 10:48 PM   #9
GroundUrMast
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It's best to experiment with aim. Though it usually works best to point the antenna directly at the transmitting antenna, there are exceptions in some cases.

I'm fairly confident that you'll do best with the antenna aimed at the strongest signal source, usually the direct path. However, if there is a strong reflected path signal arriving from another direction, your case will be an not entirely unusual exception.

With TV 'scanned' so that it knows the real/virtual channel mapping, you can then adjust the antenna aim while watching signal quality, aided by signal metering if available. Be sure to check all signals of interest, you may make one or two strong and stable at the expense of others.
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If the well is dry and you don't see rain on the horizon, you'll need to dig the hole deeper. (If the antenna can't get the job done, an amp won't fix it.)

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Old 4-Apr-2013, 1:28 AM   #10
teleview
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Directional Tv receiving antennas are in fact Directional.

Tv transmitter towers are at fixed non moving locations.

Directional antennas receive the best when aimed at the source of the signal , the transmitting tower.

Tv antennas also receive to a lesser degree at , front angles , back angles , back , of the antenna.

Directional antennas receive the Least Amount of signal directly on the sides of the directional antenna.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

Your reception location has -->Weak Signal Strength<-- Digital Tv stations/channels , your reception location.

That is why I recommended the Large Directional Antenna aimed at the Weak Signal Strength Tv stations.

Last edited by teleview; 5-Apr-2013 at 5:09 AM.
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Old 4-Apr-2013, 2:55 PM   #11
elmo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott1234 View Post
Hi Guys, I noticed my Samsung TV does not have a signal meter, but my Toshiba TV does have one. In this case, I guess one is left with just viewing the channel to see if it comes in good enough.
What model Samsung is it? I ask because every Samsung I've seen has a signal meter, but it is buried down in the menus a bit. But I haven't seen em all, by any means.
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