Suggestions for VHF/UHF antenna in New Jersey...

[gossamer]

Hi all,

First post to the list. I'm relatively new to this process, but have read a few posts and have a general idea of how to proceed. I would sure appreciate advice on determining which antenna is most suitable for me.

I'm looking to connect two HDTVs and a PC Tuner card on my Linux box. We're in northern NJ. The house is a two-story and located near the bottom of a hill. I thought a good start would be to provide the map results from three separate heights:

# 25 feet
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...001b40d57e34bb

# 50 feet
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...001bc982b23203

# 75 feet
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...001b57b8271e2d

I'm not ready to purchase a $1000 self-supporting antenna, but thought I could get away with a mast secured mostly to the second floor of the house. There are a few trees just about at the second-story level, but it really depends on the orientation of the antenna whether they would be an obstruction.

Should I measure the distance from the ground to the roof? I have an indoor Winegard antenna, and it works reasonably well when just hanging it out the second-floor window at a specific location.

Is it ever necessary to have a rotor these days? We had one on our house in the early 80s, before cable, and that's not something I want to do again.

Sure appreciate any ideas you may have.

Thanks so much.
Dave

[GroundUrMast]

A roof mounted all channel antenna aimed between 165° and 170° (compass) will provide an extensive line-up, better than almost any other around the country.

Consider antennas such as the Antennacraft CS290, Winegard HD7015 and Channel Master CM-3016. You should not need an amplifier or rotator. If you go with a larger antenna you may add additional low power signals to your line-up.

[gossamer]

Originally Posted by GroundUrMast

A roof mounted all channel antenna aimed between 165° and 170° (compass) will provide an extensive line-up, better than almost any other around the country.

Yeah, I used to be able to see the twin towers on my way to work.

Consider antennas such as the Antennacraft CS290, Winegard HD7015 and Channel Master CM-3016. You should not need an amplifier or rotator. If you go with a larger antenna you may add additional low power signals to your line-up.

It looks like the Winegard (31 elements) is better than the Channelmaster (24 elements), but the Channelmaster is more expensive. Am I using a reasonable metric to make a purchasing decision?

The Channelmaster is under $50 from Amazon, including shipping, and they have an incredible return policy.

Is the Channelmaster a safe purchase?

Thanks again,
Dave

[John Candle]

The Tv transmissions are very strong and you will receive way too many channels to watch. I suggest a Winegard HD7082P all channel antenna aimed at about 190 degree magnetic compass to start with , turn the antenna to the left and right for strongest reception of the Tv stations at 169 magnetic compass and 214 magnetic compass. An antenna amplifier Will Not be needed. The HD7082P antenna is a Heavy Duty Construction antenna and will last a long time outside. A lot longer then the CS290,HD7015,CM3016. . I suggest mounting the antenna on the roof with a , tripod mount or chimney mount or peak of the roof eave/gable mount. Here are places to buy Tv antennas and etc. , http://www.3starinc.com , http://www.solidsignal.com , http://www.starkelectronic.com , http://www.amazon.com

[John Candle]

Here is how to aim Tv antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html , Read and understand this about , REAL Digital Broadcast Tv Channels , Virtual Digital Broadcast Tv Channels , Analog Broadcast Tv Channels , http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=695 , Here are some free Tv guides. http://television.aol.com , http://www.titantv.com , http://www.zap2it.com , http://tv.yahoo.com , http://tv.entertainment.excite.com , http://www.tvzap.com

[John Candle]

Unless you have some dense/tall close by trees to the south , then mounting the antenna about 4 or 5 feet above the roof will be fine. . Yes sometimes a rotor is needed , But not for you.

[gossamer]

Originally Posted by John Candle

The Tv transmissions are very strong and you will receive way too many channels to watch. I suggest a Winegard HD7082P all channel antenna aimed at about 190 degree magnetic compass to start with , turn the antenna to the left and right for strongest reception of the Tv stations at 169 magnetic compass and 214 magnetic compass.

Do you mean try these different angles to experiment which is best? Later you mention that a rotor won't be needed, so it was a little unclear to me.

An antenna amplifier Will Not be needed.

Am I to infer that I'm so close that the signal will be strong enough as it is? It's probably obvious, but just curious if there was another explanation.

I suggest mounting the antenna on the roof with a , tripod mount or chimney mount or peak of the roof eave/gable mount.

So a tripod would only be a few feet high, correct? It wouldn't require guy wires or anything else more involved to affix it to the roof?

Any trees we do have in the way would probably not be a significant obstruction, if at all, so you believe the roof-level height would be sufficient?

Thanks so much. Really appreciate your time.

Best,
Dave

[John Candle]

A rotor Will Not be used. A rotor Will Not be installed. You Will Not buy a rotor. You Will Not have a rotor in your hands. You Will Not be looking at a rotor. You Will Not mount a rotor on the mast. You Will Not mount the Tv antenna on the rotor , because there will be NO rotor. When Tv antennas are installed the Tv antenna is turned by hand to the left and right to find the strongest reception. Turn the Tv antenna a few degrees to the left and a few degrees to the right to find the strongest reception in the direction of the Tv stations you will like to receive.

[John Candle]

There will be No signal amplifier installed or used. The Tv transmissions are Strong at your location and the big antenna has plenty of gain , the antenna makes the signals even stronger.

[John Candle]

The typical tripod antenna mount is 3 feet high. A mast ( the pipe that the antenna is mounted on ) is a few feet long , so with the mast in the tripod mount and the antenna attached to the mast then the antenna will be about 5 feet above the roof. No guy wires will be used. Tripod mounts are very Sturdy and Strong. Chimney mounts are very Sturdy and Strong. Peak of the roof eave/gable mounts are very Sturdy and Strong.

[John Candle]

This is not trick information. If your imagination takes over about all of the , ands , buts , maybees , you will come to a dead end. The information about trees is not trick information. What I am saying is , IF <-- notice the word IF. If there are trees to the south , and IF the trees are close and IF the trees are BIG and THICK and DENCE then some of the Tv transmissions can be reduced in strength. When you are standing on the roof of the house , and you can see across the tops of trees to the horizon then the reception should be fine.

[John Candle]

19 miles is close to the transmitters , 30 miles is close to the transmitters. Most of the transmitting antennas are LOS = Line Of Sight. The only way to get any better then Line Of Sight is to climb up the transmitting tower and Hug the transmitting antenna.

[gossamer]

Originally Posted by John Candle

A rotor Will Not be used. A rotor Will Not be installed. You Will Not buy a rotor. You Will Not have a rotor in your hands. You Will Not be looking at a rotor. You Will Not mount a rotor on the mast. You Will Not mount the Tv antenna on the rotor , because there will be NO rotor. When Tv antennas are installed the Tv antenna is turned by hand to the left and right to find the strongest reception. Turn the Tv antenna a few degrees to the left and a few degrees to the right to find the strongest reception in the direction of the Tv stations you will like to receive.

Dude, relax. Did the kids call you names when you were young?

Get over it. The forum has been very helpful, and I didn't think it was a big deal to ask for a little clarification, despite knowing there was a great chance it was an unnecessary question.

[gossamer]

Originally Posted by John Candle

This is not trick information. If your imagination takes over about all of the , ands , buts , maybees , you will come to a dead end. The information about trees is not trick information. What I am saying is , IF <-- notice the word IF. If there are trees to the south , and IF the trees are close and IF the trees are BIG and THICK and DENCE then some of the Tv transmissions can be reduced in strength. When you are standing on the roof of the house , and you can see across the tops of trees to the horizon then the reception should be fine.

I think if I stood on the roof, and only IF, there would be a good chance I would still see trees aiming south. If I stand on the neighbors roof, however, there aren't any trees. Does that count?

Maybe all this hostility you have is because your jealous that my reception is better than yours? :-)

btw, it's DENSE, not DENCE.

[gossamer]

Originally Posted by John Candle

The typical tripod antenna mount is 3 feet high. A mast ( the pipe that the antenna is mounted on ) is a few feet long , so with the mast in the tripod mount and the antenna attached to the mast then the antenna will be about 5 feet above the roof. No guy wires will be used. Tripod mounts are very Sturdy and Strong. Chimney mounts are very Sturdy and Strong. Peak of the roof eave/gable mounts are very Sturdy and Strong.

I think the tripod is going to be my best option.

I'm concerned that mounting a tripod at the eave of the roof could cause leakage. Do you have any tips or suggestions in preparation for mounting it?

Thanks,
Dave

[GroundUrMast]

JC's recommendation of the HD7082P is a premium solution, not overkill, but appropriate if you want to see the lower powered stations, particularly those using 'real' low-VHF channel assignments.

If you have a gable style roof, you can avoid the use of a tripod by choosing a Wall Mount. I am reluctant to put holes in my roof too. If a tripod is the best option for you, be sure to use a Pitch Pad Kit and appropriate amounts of roofing cement. Depending on your roof type, you may want to ask someone in the roofing business.

You have quite a lot of signal to work with, so much in fact, that many amplifiers would be expected to overload. The distant, weak signals would require extreme measures such as much larger antennas and possibly a high tower... and then you would still be facing problems of co-channel and adjacent channel interference. If you have an interest in DX reception, I would think you would want to consider a separate antenna system for local vs. DX.

[gossamer]

Originally Posted by GroundUrMast

JC's recommendation of the HD7082P is a premium solution, not overkill, but appropriate if you want to see the lower powered stations, particularly those using 'real' low-VHF channel assignments.

If you have a gable style roof, you can avoid the use of a tripod by choosing a Wall Mount. I am reluctant to put holes in my roof too. If a tripod is the best option for you, be sure to use a Pitch Pad Kit and appropriate amounts of roofing cement. Depending on your roof type, you may want to ask someone in the roofing business.

Awesome, thanks. The wall mount is a much better option and also something that will work for me.

I think the HD7082P looks like a good choice. It appears the antenna purchase doesn't generally include the mast, correct? It only includes the hardware to mount it to a mast?

It looks like this one includes a sufficient mast with the mounting kit for the side of the house for the HD7082P antenna?

http://www.3starinc.com/ron-104_delu...t_bracket.html

How do I determine the diameter mast that I need? The specs in the listing for the antenna doesn't seem to indicate that.

You have quite a lot of signal to work with, so much in fact, that many amplifiers would be expected to overload. The distant, weak signals would require extreme measures such as much larger antennas and possibly a high tower... and then you would still be facing problems of co-channel and adjacent channel interference. If you have an interest in DX reception, I would think you would want to consider a separate antenna system for local vs. DX.

Okay, understood, and recall some of that from explanations by my father when I was a kid. I don't understand DX, however. Where can I find more information about that?

Is that medium wave radio, like AM?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MW_DX

How about grounding? How do I account for that?

Thanks,
Dave

[GroundUrMast]

Originally Posted by gossamer

...
It looks like this one includes a sufficient mast with the mounting kit for the side of the house for the HD7082P antenna?

http://www.3starinc.com/ron-104_delu...t_bracket.html

How do I determine the diameter mast that I need? The specs in the listing for the antenna doesn't seem to indicate that.



... I don't understand DX, however. Where can I find more information about that?

Is that medium wave radio, like AM?

...

How about grounding? How do I account for that?

Thanks,
Dave

The description for the product you linked to includes, "(Mast not Included)". The common mast diameter for consumer grade OTA antennas is 1.25" - O.D. All of the antennas mentioned up to this point will fit that size mast.

DX in this context refers to reception of distant TV signals. For some, it's a hobby like HAM radio. For others, it's their only hope for OTA reception. It includes dealing with weak signals, interference and in many cases, an understanding of tropospheric radio propagation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_and_FM_DX

A thread re. grounding

[John Candle]

Here is a picture of a peak of the roof eave/gable mount. http://www.sadoun.com/Sat/Products/Perfect/PVEM1.gif

[gossamer]

Originally Posted by John Candle

Here is a picture of a peak of the roof eave/gable mount. http://www.sadoun.com/Sat/Products/Perfect/PVEM1.gif

Yes, perfect, that's exactly what I'm going to do.

Thanks again for all your help. I hope to be able to contribute something valuable in the future as you guys have done.

Thanks,
Dave