Brand new member -- Antenna suggestions in Michigan's UP

[RedBull1973]

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...46aec7a335d46f

Here is the link to my location. I am trying to find a single antenna that I can set and leave alone to pick up channels 10, 13, 19, 35, and 48. I have been experimenting with an old FM/VHF/UHF antenna that has been up on the roof since the 90s. I was able to get all the locals before the digital transition, but now not so much. I seem to be able to get 13 and 19 no matter which way I aim it. I need to aim SW to get 10 and SE to get 48, but no circumstances get me 35. I purchased an Antennas Direct DB8 and pointed it SE and at the same time pointed the old antenna SW. Running them through a combiner with no preamp gets me everything except 35, though my converter box shows a poor signal on that channel. I have also tried the DB8 antenna solo and can't capture 10 or 35 no matter which direction I aim for. I do have an Antenna Craft 10g202 preamp coming in the mail on Tuesday though and plan to experiment with it to see if I can get all the channels with that.

I don't know if there is a better way to approach this or not, but please send me suggestions if I'm missing something here. I have 14 days to decide on the DB8 if I want to keep it or not, so if there is something better I have that long to make a move.

[RedBull1973]

No takers on this one???

[GroundUrMast]

DB8 or DB8e?

Are you pointing into trees when going after 35? If so, do you have any way to get over or around them?

[RedBull1973]

It's the DB8 model. There is a tall tree line on the opposite side of the neighbor's yard that I am pointing right into. The line of them extend from West of my yard right on around to the Southeast, though they are closer proximity to the Southwest. The antennas are mounted at the chimney, so I am pretty much at the highest point I can be. Channels 10 and 13 also come from just about the same heading as 35 and I grab them just fine. I'll see if I can't get a picture uploaded from the top of the roof a little later on.

[RedBull1973]

This is what it looks like looking SW from my rooftop.

[GroundUrMast]

If you where seeing WLUC intermittently, I'd feel no guilt suggesting you try a another UHF antenna.

Given you don't see WLUC at all with the DB8, I'd be looking for ways to go higher. But then I used to get paid for working on a tower and I still like climbing.

[RedBull1973]

I did see it for a short while but now the best I can do is a weak signal on my converter box. I use the box only for testing signal strengths as none of my tvs will do it and I use the most direct connect I can. None of the tvs can translate the signal though.

[GroundUrMast]

Would the deterioration in reception coincide with the leafs on the trees coming on and maturing?

[RedBull1973]

It may be the leaves, but those have been there all summer. It was in the last week when I was able to snag 35 for a short while. I think it may have came in when I was testing out an RCA TVPRAMP1R preamp with only the old antenna up there. I do have an Antennacraft 10G202 preamp coming in tomorrow and will try that. That seems to have descent reviews with high gain and low noise so I'll see if it's a keeper or not. I don't have many problems with 10 and 13 though, which they are higher power.

Want to know the funny part here? The TV station is actually located right across the highway from me...about 1/4 mile or so. They put their transmitter in a higher elevation about 20 miles WSW of the "big city," and there are numerous elevation drop-offs between the two. Fortunately, things don't really drop off until a mile or two East of me.

[RedBull1973]

So for the update on my reception...10G202 preamp is installed with the FM trap IN. I have the old antenna pointing SW and the UHF bowtie antenna pointing SE. Both antennas have about the same length coax running to a splitter combiner. Then I have the preamp in line. Then there is roughly a 50 foot run of RG59. I may switch it out to RG6, but don't know that would actually help the signal much. The preamp's power source comes next. I then use a distribution amp with 4 outputs and another FM trap in the IN position. 3 outputs are to the TV and one to the FM receiver. I see I may have to do something else with my FM because it doesn't need any amplification and still needs to be filtered out of the TV run. After all is said and done I seem to have adequate signals across all channels EXCEPT 35, however it is very borderline now. It seems to work for say 5-10 minutes and then I'll get a few minutes of pixilation and digital noise. It's becoming very frustrating. I would like to get this solved before the leaves fall off the trees to make sure it's a keeper.

So that's the best I can seem to come up with here. I would be willing to return the UHF antenna if something else could be more serviceable to me.

Digital tuners can develop - Digital Glitches - that are not cleared out with simple channel scans.

Do Double Rescan , http://www.wchstv.com/DoubleReScanAlert.pdf.

_______________________

Have only the UHF/VHF antenna connected and aim at about 190 degree magnetic compass direction.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

Use a Old School magnetic compass to aim antenna/s.

_______________________

If using both antennas.

Use a Winegard CC7870 transformer type isolation combiner to connect the 2 antennas.

The isloation type combiner reduces antenna cross talk and reduces signal bleed off of the 2 antennas connected to one coax.

And reduces the out of phase signals of the 2 antenna on 1 coax.

_________

If using both antennas , aim the UHF/VHF antenna at about 211 degree magnetic compass direction and UHF antenna at about 138 degree magnetic compass direction.

[RedBull1973]

Originally Posted by teleview

Digital tuners can develop - Digital Glitches - that are not cleared out with simple channel scans.

Do Double Rescan , http://www.wchstv.com/DoubleReScanAlert.pdf.

_______________________

Have only the UHF/VHF antenna connected and aim at about 190 degree magnetic compass direction.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

Use a Old School magnetic compass to aim antenna/s.

_______________________

If using both antennas.

Use a Winegard CC7870 transformer type isolation combiner to connect the 2 antennas.

The isloation type combiner reduces antenna cross talk and reduces signal bleed off of the 2 antennas connected to one coax.

And reduces the out of phase signals of the 2 antenna on 1 coax.

_________

If using both antennas , aim the UHF/VHF antenna at about 211 degree magnetic compass direction and UHF antenna at about 138 degree magnetic compass direction.

I actually returned the DB8 UHF antenna before I got around to reading this, but I have come across another antenna sold by Solid Signal called the HDB8X, which appears that you can aim two panels in two different directions and has high VHF capabilities.

I guess I'd like to know if these antennas actually perform like stated, or is it more gimmick than anything? Would I be better off with a basic directional UHF antenna pointed at 48 and my current antenna pointed at 10, 13, and 35, and use that CC7870 combiner? I'm trying not to break the bank here too. I've already invested 40 in a 10G202 preamp and another 65 in a CM7777 preamp. The CM7777 is pretty much useless to me as it kills any reception I had so I'll probably return that one.

My current setup is my old antenna pointed slightly West of due South. I don't have an exact degree, but there is one VERY small window that allows me to have 35 and 48 teetering on the receiving signal threshold. I am using the 10G202 preamp with FM trap IN. There is about 50ft of RG59 cable running from the preamp to inside the house. I then have a Radio Shack distribution amp with another FM trap IN and turned up all the way. I have tried the setup with a 4-way splitter instead of the distribution amp in hopes that less electronics in the mix would be better, but I actually do better with the amp inline. I am able to get around 75% on 10, 85% on 13, and 75% on 19 with this setup, but only 15-35% on 35 and 48. If I point right at 35 I can get around 50% and if I aim for 48 it will give me 75%. These numbers are estimates at best as I am using a signal bar on a converter box to test with.

[Tower Guy]

The use of both a preamp and a distribution amp can cause problems.

Recommend Do Not use the preamp and distribution amps at the same time in the antenna system.

All amplifiers add Noise to the signals , to much noise is not good for distribution through out the antenna distribution system , cause bad reception at the Tv's.

Over amplification can channels to pixilate and blankout.

Recommend use the preamp only.
_______

All , coax , connectors , splitters , couplers , etc. , through out the antenna system are suspect of being bad.

Recommend correct problems through out the antenna system.

[RedBull1973]

I thank you all for pitching in on this. I am getting to wit's end trying to get a working setup. I am on my second "trial" antenna. This time I am running an Antennacraft HBU55. I have tried it by itself and mixed with my old antenna that I've had up there since Jesus was a child. I have tried the 10G202 preamp as well as the CM7777. Some items I can return for cash back if they don't work, but I'm getting tired of throwing money around like I actually have some. My current setup is pointing the old antenna SE for RF 48 and the HBU55 to the SW for 10, 13, and 35. 19 is close enough that heading doesn't really matter. After the antennas are combined into a single lead it runs through the CM7777 preamp and then about 50 feet into the house. There it runs through a 4 way distribution amp, and it does seem to work better running through it rather than just a 4 way splitter. I get at least 75% signal across everything EXCEPT 35. It is ridiculous that I can't get a lock on this channel. I am about ready to say **** it and just get my money back on everything I've spent it on.

[Billiam]

If you can't get a lock on only one channel then it is possible there is another problem especially since you've tried more than one antenna. They may be having trouble with their signal. I ran into that problem with a station in my area a couple of years ago. The signal was weak and I could not get a lock on it because they were having trouble at the station. Another issue could be something in the atmosphere causing this problem.

Have you tried running a single coax cable to a single TV while using a pre amp? You should not even need a preamp to get CH. 35 since the signal is in Yellow on your chart.

I have used the HBU 55 and it is a great antenna. I was able to get a lock on signals with a Zero NM without a pre amp. I doubt the antenna is the problem. More likely you have multipath issues at your location and moving the antenna to another spot on the property may solve the problem unless there is a problem with the signal at the transmitter.

[Billiam]

Ch. 19 may be overloading your pre amp. If you don't need to watch any signals in Red on your chart, try removing the preamp. That could also be the source of your problem and would possibly ruin another UHF channel like 35.

[RedBull1973]

I have experimented with different setups, including your suggested setup. I have tried the single line to a single TV with and without a preamp. It doesn't appear that any of the stations are strong enough to overload things, at least by looking at the signal bars on the receiver itself.

I have actually contacted the TV station about my problem. The actual location of the station is about 1/4 mile away from me. They say that they have no problems receiving their own signal with an antenna 40 feet high. I am at 25 feet at my location, though they don't appear to have trees on their property either. If you look at post #5 I have uploaded a picture of what my property looks like from the roof in the SW direction. I don't know how much of an issue these trees are, but they don't seem to affect channel 10 or 13 at all. I don't really have any other options for location of the antenna either. It is chimney mounted.

Also, the channels in red on my chart I can't even get a signal for.

[Billiam]

I doubt this is a problem with the antennas especially a Yagi style like the HBU 55. That is designed to get signals in multi path prone areas like yours. Since the troublesome signals are Green (48) and Yellow (35) I would have to say the problem is likely with the terrain between you and the transmitters. It is probable that you happen to be in an isolated spot where the signals just don't penetrate very well.

I've heard about similar problems in the Pittsburgh area. People just a few miles away from the transmitter in an Green signal area having difficulty getting local signals. Hills can play tricks with digital signals. My guess is that this is the problem.

Can you try moving the antenna around on your property? Do a field test by taking it down to ground level and put it 10 feet on a mast and point it in different directions to see what you get.

I think the problem is with the location and not the antennas.

[RedBull1973]

Looks like the location is the factor. Basic cable is hooked up and HBU55 is returned, as will be the CM7777 preamp. Ridiculous that I have to pay for free TV because the damn TV station can't provide an adequate signal. They must be in bed with the cable company or something. Thank you everyone for your help attempts. I wish I had a better outcome.