Advice on picking up a few channels? (Mill Valley, CA)

[Comenius]

Hello Folks,

After much reading I installed an Antennas Direct ClearStream 2V aimed at about magnetic 130 in the attic above my 2 story condo. I'm using a single run of about 100' of brand new RG6 quad shield cable with compression connectors. Also, as there are some very strong FM transmitters about 3 miles away from me in the direction of the OTA transmitters, I installed a Radio Shack 15-024 FM Trap about 3 feet away from the antenna. I'm getting rock solid reception on almost all channels with a few exceptions.

NBC (VHF 11) is weird, and the station I'd most like to improve. Sometimes it comes in clear as a bell, sometimes with a lot of stuttering and dropouts, and sometimes it's completely gone. Without the FM Trap this station doesn't come in at all. Anything I can do to improve its reliability?

Also, there are two UHF stations that TV Fool says I should receive that don't show up at all during a channel scan, KTSF (UHF 27) and KAXT (UHF 42). While I'm not hugely attached to getting either of these, are there any thoughts on how I can get them? Or any of the other stations I'm not currently receiving?

I tried the ANT751R and reception was not as good as the C2V. I also tried the RCA TVPRAMP1R with the FM Trap on and reception was comparable to just the Radio Shack FM Trap. I'd prefer to keep the antenna in the attic as opposed to the roof for aesthetic reasons.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Here's my TVFool @ 25ft: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...46ae59013eed0b

I've also attached a small spreadsheet showing the channels I'm currently receiving and their SNR reported by my tuner.

[GroundUrMast]

Don't be afraid to add a second FM trap.

If that fails to resolve the trouble, I would experiment with a High-VHF antenna that has better performance than the dipole you've got now. In the attic, you're starting at a disadvantage. Erring on the large side when selecting an antenna for an attic install is prudent in most cases, but even that may not work well in some attics. YMMV

I'd try either the Antennacraft Y10713 or Y5713... go big if it will fit. The UHF/VHF combiner on the C2V should do fine if you connect an alternate H-VHF antenna to it.

The same is true of UHF... If you're stuck in the attic for what ever reason, bigger may be 'enough better'.

What is more important??

Aesthetics or Reliable Reception??

I choose Reliable Reception.

I suspect that moving the CS2v to above the roof in such a manner that reception is not , obstructed , impeded , blocked , by the roof and building in the directions of , South East , East , North West , will provide reliable reception.

Aim the CS2v antenna at about 131 degree magnetic compass direction.

Here is how to aim antenna , www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html

Use a Real and Actual magnetic compass to aim antenna.

[StephanieS]

Greetings Comenius,

Welcome to the forum. You are no doubt experiencing two things, the first, the challenges of an attic install and second, an antenna that is not fully ideal for your conditions.

First, as teleview pointed out, reliable reception has the best chance with an antenna outdoors with as few obstructions as possible between receiving antenna and the transmitter. Attic installs are fraught with wildcards due to making the TV signals pass through solid materials to get to your antenna. Even with excellent signals, you can still get drop outs in these scenarios. Further complicating matters is your 1 and 2 edge signals. Since you don't have line of sight, giving your antenna every chance to receive these signals that are being subjected to terrain puts you at a disadvantage.

If the attic install is your intent, let's set some expectations. The red weaker signals are going to be largely hit and miss, trending more towards miss. Second, your moderate signals starting about 25-20db signal strength and down may be more erratic and/or not show up at all. This is due to passing through solid material. You may have erratic problems with strong signals too.

GroundUrMast's suggestion of adding VHF capability is spot on. Since the CS2V is a UHF design, you need to add H-VHF (7-13) to target KGO RF 7 and KNTV RF 12 for improved reception. I like the idea of the Y5-7-13 if you can swing it. Amazon has it for 13 bucks at the moment. Test with and without preamp to see which performance is better.

As to KTSF and KAXT, you want those signals, go on your roof with the antenna. That's about it. Why? Signal strengths are in the upper teens db to approaching 10 db. There just isn't enough signal to "punch" through your roof to get to the CS2V.

At this point, I just want to have reasonable expectations of performance. For the asthetic appeal, comes a trade off.

Edit: I would not have recommended the RCA ANT751 to you. I am not surprised it didn't perform as well as the CS2V for you. The 751, while a great little local to suburban antenna, it does best in line of sight applications with excellent to moderate signal strengths. Your attic install combined with 1 and 2 edge terrain issues on the signals was asking too much of it as you found out. For your situation, you needed more horsepower.

Good luck!
SS

Originally Posted by Comenius

Hello Folks,


NBC (VHF 11) is weird, and the station I'd most like to improve. Sometimes it comes in clear as a bell, sometimes with a lot of stuttering and dropouts, and sometimes it's completely gone. Without the FM Trap this station doesn't come in at all. Anything I can do to improve its reliability?

Also, there are two UHF stations that TV Fool says I should receive that don't show up at all during a channel scan, KTSF (UHF 27) and KAXT (UHF 42). While I'm not hugely attached to getting either of these, are there any thoughts on how I can get them? Or any of the other stations I'm not currently receiving?

I tried the ANT751R \

[ADTech]

Since the CS2V is a UHF design,

The "C2" is a the UHF-only version, the "C2V" is the version with the added VHF dipole.

NBC (VHF 11) is weird, and the station I'd most like to improve. Sometimes it comes in clear as a bell, sometimes with a lot of stuttering and dropouts, and sometimes it's completely gone. Without the FM Trap this station doesn't come in at all. Anything I can do to improve its reliability?

Put two, even three FM traps in series. Yes, that's what it takes if your TV tuner wasn't built to reject FM interference.

I'd prefer to keep the antenna in the attic as opposed to the roof for aesthetic reasons.

At least try multiple locations within the attic. Then, if necessary, it's time to move the antenna where it likely needs to be, on the roof.

[Comenius]

Thanks everyone for the wonderful, helpful replies!

I had never considered multiple FM traps but this seems like a cheap and easy first test.

Is the Radio Shack 15-024 the right make/model to help with NBC (VHF 11), or does it not really make a difference?

I assume I would just connect them all in a series as close to the antenna as possible?

Is there a recommended spacing between them, or does it not really matter?

The word - aesthetics - leaves a Bad Taste in my mouth.

More often then not the word is used to down grade what is good and correct and right.

The Truth is , Antennas are Handsome and Beautiful .

[ADTech]

Is the Radio Shack 15-024 the right make/model to help with NBC (VHF 11), or does it not really make a difference?

I assume I would just connect them all in a series as close to the antenna as possible?

Is there a recommended spacing between them, or does it not really matter?

As long as there are no amps or splitters, they can go anywhere and there is no spacing requirement just connect them in series.. The RS filter is fine for this application, especially because it's easy to acquire as long as RS is still in business and carries that item at your local store.

[Comenius]

A bit of an update. As suggested, I tried adding one and then two more Radio Shack FM Traps. No improvement over just using a single one.

If I want to keep everything in my attic and improve NBC (VHF 11), is my next step to invest in a dedicated Hi-VHF antenna?

Is there a meaningful difference between the Hi-VHF performance of the Antennacraft Y10713 and Y5713 and the Antennas Direct C5?

Am I correct that I can connect any of the Hi-VHF antennas to the the VHF port of the C2V? Do I need to remove the dipoles from the C2V, leave them extended, or fold them down? And I should leave the single FM Trap after the C2V as it is right now so that it continues to filter both UHF and VHF?

[GroundUrMast]

My personal experience with the two Antennacraft models has shown a very significant difference in performance. The Y10713 clearly has more forward gain and a narrower forward beam-width.