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Old 14-Jan-2014, 9:42 PM   #1
JNEW72
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NJ reception help

Hello all,

I apologize if this appears as a duplicate, i submitted a thread previously, but i don't see it here.

Before i found this site, I purchased an Antennacraft HBU22 antenna and an RCA mast mount preamp model tvpramp1r. No rotor.

I cut the cord from Comcast already.

I haven't installed anything just yet. I intend to install the antenna at roughly 25ft height.

I am hoping to get the New York stations. On the 2nd floor on an indoor antenna with a preamp i can receive Channel 2 perfectly, Channel 5 and 9 intermittently, and 2 Spanish stations i beleive 47-1 & 2? perfectly.

I intend to bring the signals into the house and split to 3 tv's.

Here is my report: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...5b949d50335790

Any advice on equipment, height, etc... is appreciated.

Thanks!
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Old 14-Jan-2014, 10:26 PM   #2
ADTech
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Get the antenna and amplifier hooked up to a single set for testing and point the antenna at New York City. That will tell you where you're at and where you may still need to go.
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Old 19-Jan-2014, 12:19 AM   #3
JNEW72
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Thanks,

I am just waiting for a dry day to get up on the roof. I will respond with the results as soon as it's installed.
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Old 19-Jan-2014, 5:28 PM   #4
JNEW72
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OK, So the antenna is up at about 25 ft. with the preamp installed and a 50ft run of rg-6 quad direct to the TV. It is pointing generically towards NYC, not by compass.

Not much improvement over the indoor antenna i have hooked up on my 2nd floor TV.

Channels 2.1, 2.2, 5.1, 5.2, 9.1, 47.1,47.2 come in perfectly with the outdoor antenna.

No reception on channels 4, 11, 13 or any others.

On the indoor antenna i get the same as above, with much less reliability on all of them except 2.1 & 2.2. They come in pretty good on the indoor unless bad weather is rolling through.

Any suggestions? I can't elevate any higher as it is on a 5ft mast attached to a 4 inch vent pipe.
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Old 20-Jan-2014, 11:18 AM   #5
StephanieS
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Greetings JNEW,

I understand your disappointment in minimal improvement in reception. If I were installing your setup, the HBU22 might be a little too weak for my tastes, especially going after the single digit db strength NYC stations.

Your plot has many 2 edge signals. This makes reception trickier and requires a strong antenna to offset the quirky things 2 edge signals can do. Two-edge signals are terrain blocked from your location. This means you have no line of sight and signals have to bend to get to you. This causes unpredictability as they bounce around. As such, antennas with wide surface areas and good amounts of gain such as a DB8, DB8e, U8000 and CM4228 are often good choices in these situations.

The trade off is these larger UHF aerials are more directional. That will make you have to point specifically at Philadelphia or NYC. It sounds like you are wanting NYC so orientating to magnetic 21 will be where you'd want to go.

Remember, TV signals are in 3 bands: low-VHF (channels 2-6), high-VHF (channels 7-13 and UHF (channels 14 and above).

For NYC, you'll need high-VHF and UHF support.

If I were spending freely to give myself the best chance at reception, I'd purchase a two antenna set up starting with a Antennas Direct DB8e for UHF reception. http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=db8e. The DB8e is attractive in this situation due to the ability to adjust each side of the antenna should you have signals bouncing off path from the TVfool heading. Generally though, with this design it's gain is strongest in the given direction when you keep both panels facing the same heading. Further, I'd suggest a Antennacraft Y10-7-13 for high-VHF. http://www.solidsignal.com/search.asp?q=Y10-7-13. This will give you the strongest high-vhf only beam on the market to focus on WPIX, WABC and WNET.

Mount both antennas on tripod on your roof. Use 10' pole. Mount DB8e on top of pole and Y10-7-13 4' below. Tripod supplies are here: http://www.solidsignal.com/search.asp?q=tripods. Recommend heading of magnetic 21 on Both antennas.

Connect DB8e coax jumper to UHF input on already owned RCA TVPRAMPR1 preamp. Connect Y10-7-13 coax to VHF preamp input. Run single coax drop into home. Make sure to have coax switch on preamp on "separate." (its under the funny rubber plug by the inputs)

After you do all that, connect one TV to the coax coming into the home. Perform scan after aiming. See what you get. You ought to be able to see the majority of the NYC signals down to WNBC and WXPN. After that you are getting into the signals that are so weak atmospheric variances can knock them below reception threshold.

RE: Coax run. Can you estimate how long each of your splits from splitter to TVs are in total? How long is your drop coming down off the antenna?

It's a lot of work no doubt. You are in a somewhat challenging situation. It calls for a robust set up with higher gain equipment to help you offset those fickle 2-edge conditions.

I hate to blow up your HBU22, but I've done exactly that.

In my amateur opinion, go big and go strong especially for NYC. I've given you a set up that should get you well on your way.

Let us know how it pans out.

Regards.

Last edited by StephanieS; 20-Jan-2014 at 11:47 AM.
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Old 20-Jan-2014, 4:37 PM   #6
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The combination of antennas suggested above are not overkill in your situation, I'd use the same combination myself.

It sounds like you may need to consider other mounting options such as a roof mounted tripod or ground mounted push-up mast. If you have a gable end, an eve bracket may work. Finally, how about a chimney mount kit?

Here's one of the most comprehensive selections of masts and mounting accessories I've found in one place. http://www.3starinc.com/
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Old 21-Jan-2014, 12:03 AM   #7
JNEW72
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Thank you for the feedback!

I would love to elevate higher and use a dual setup. Unfortunately the other mounting alternatives are not an option for a few variety of reasons.

That being said, utilizing the mounting setup i have, I could maybe get away with separate VHF & UHF Yagi's with the VHF being closer to 21/22feet elevation and the UHF at the top. I could perhaps even gang 2 UHF Yagi's side by side given their smaller width. The question would be what would work best? Otherwise, I would need a recommendation on the best combination antenna given my 2edge conditions.

Coax run from the antenna down to the ground block is about 25-30 feet.
I have 2 feeds into the house. The first run is about 15 feet into a 2 way splitter for the downstairs (2 TV's). The second runs about 25-30 feet to the 2nd floor into a 2 way splitter for upstairs (2 TV's). Previously, Cable Co just split the feed outside. As I kept internet service, I will have to get an additional feed inside at least to the downstairs. (I have wireless Roku box into home theater setup, but i find that a LAN connection works better).

Just for kicks, I reran the plots to see what elevation starts to improve from the 2edge, and came up with a minimum of 75ft when their are more 1edge. Not sure how the NM(DB) and Signal Pwr (DB) will affect my reception results, suffice it to say I will never get much above 25ft.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...5b94220b10ae6d
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Old 21-Jan-2014, 12:50 AM   #8
StephanieS
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JNew,

A UHF yagi could work. I didn't recommend it due to your 2-edge conditions. The fickleness and shifting 2-edge signals are capable of are best served by antenna that has a large receiving area to "see" the signal. Yagis such as the Antennacraft MXU59 or the Antennas Direct 91xg are fantastic, but with a smaller surface area to "collect" the signal, if that said signal shifts a bit, you may see a dropout whereas on a 8 bay bowtie design you'd be less inclined to.

Personally, I use a yagi (91xg) for reception of a 400w translator @ 56 miles. However, I'm in a 1-edge situation. If I'd been in a 2-edge situation, I'd have gone with a 8 bay bowtie design.

If you are limited by your situation, then you can try a 91XG coupled with a Y10-7-13 by the RCA preamp orientated to magnetic 21. Insert preamp power supply at the end of your initial 25-30' coax drop coming off the RCA preamp into your home, just before you do the 2 way split.

It may work for you, it may not. Just keep in mind, shifting signals are fickle. If it doesn't work, it may not be the antennas fault.

RE: splitting and 2 TVs. With two splits and your length of coax, you should be fine. Nothing further needs to be considered unless you want to run without preamp to test before/after.

Best of luck.

Last edited by StephanieS; 21-Jan-2014 at 1:06 AM. Reason: clarification
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Old 21-Jan-2014, 10:08 PM   #9
JNEW72
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Stephanie,

Thanks! I will look closer at possibly accommodating the 2 antenna setup with the DB8E. The Y-10-7-13 certainly looks good. I would have to see if I can accommodate it's length.

I am open to any other suggestions.

JNEW
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Old 22-Jan-2014, 2:43 AM   #10
JNEW72
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Funny thing, I rescanned the channels in the middle of this snowstorm expecting to get nothing or very little. I got more then I have yet on the same HBU22 antenna. I haven't adjusted to magnetic 21 yet either.

2.1, 2.2, 4.1, 4.2, 5.1, 5.2, 5.3, 9.1, 9.2, 9.3, 9.4, 47.1, 47.2, 68.1, 68.2

Still no 7 or 13 though.

The weather system I am sure is affecting the signals as the last clear day was when I ran the original scan.
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