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Old 30-Dec-2013, 1:51 PM   #1
daciii1966
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4
Between 2 cities

Hi all,
I’m finally making the time to go antenna… So here’s my report;

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...46ae8beaa72061

I’m looking to go w/ the attic install. I tried a test run w/ a small antenna. The “freevision outdoor antenna by Winegard.
Here’s a homedepot link
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Winegard-..._src=17588969#

Anyway I did a quick attic connection and leaned the antenna against the wall. It picked up about most of the channels down to about the pink on the report. I only had a short amount of time so had to do a quick scan and check… Based on this I think a better antenna should work fine.

I’m open to antenna suggestions. I was looking toward the rectangle type. Maybe the Channel Master 4228HD. They are referred to as 4 or 8 bay antennas. Some have small disc like portions behind the antenna. Any good or
more physic defying gimmicks?

This type/size seems like it would be easy to get into and out of (thinking of future) the attic. But do they work? They claim 60 and 75 mile reception… If they work it seems like a good physical fit for me…but I do not want to waste my time or money…Pros/cons vs the old fashion style..like the Channel Master 3020

I’m looking to get as many channels as possible. Even considering putting this on a rotor in the near future…Another reason to look toward the rectangle type….room to rotate in the attic… I’m between 2 cities and if I can get the other city may be nice for sporting events etc… Again, open to suggestions…rotor? Two antenna? Don’t be greedy?



So please..I’m open to comments, suggestions, etc….


Thanks in advance…
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Old 30-Dec-2013, 9:05 PM   #2
elmo
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Here's something to consider. The 4 & 8 bays you are talking about are designed as UHF antennas. They may tune some VHF, but your success with that will be less than optimal. At quick glance, Ch 6 for instance could be hard to tune with those. You could always add a 2nd VHF only antenna aimed right at Ch 6 if that was the only VHF reception you required. If you check your chart, the box at the bottom will detail the channels on the VHF side that you can receive. They split it into VHF Lo & Hi. The lower the value, the harder that it will be to tune w/o dedicated VHF elements. You see those on the triangular style antennas - the long rods tune the VHF for you.

As for the attic, any chance you can go roof mount instead? You'd have more options with a rotor if you go that route. Plus the attic can be hard for obtaining a good signal vs outdoors.

Keep in mind that rotors can be a pain for surfing channels and for DVR's, so if you can avoid that, you'll likely be happier. But if it adds value by bringing in another market, then maybe it's a good option. I'd take a quick survey of what's around you and see what you really will watch. There's times when I wish I had more selection, but even with what I can tune, some channels I might as well drop from my list as I just never watch them.

I'll add this - if the Freevision you tested pulled in the majority of them, well, why not go with that? Once you get down to single digit NM levels, solid reception will be tough. There's no better test than an antenna on hand. If it had some particular misses or issues, that'd be helpful to know.

Last edited by elmo; 30-Dec-2013 at 9:10 PM.
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Old 31-Dec-2013, 4:27 AM   #3
teleview
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The Current Broadcast Tv stations/channels that are being transmitted and received in the , USA , Canada , Mexico , are.

VHF low band channels 2 thru 6.

VHF high band channels 7 thru 13.

UHF channels 14 thru 51.

Your location has receivable Broadcast Tv stations/channels in All 3 Tv bands.

All of the Tv Networks are received with 1 All Channel antenna aimed in 1 direction.

I recommend install a , http://www.antennacraft.net , HD850 All channel antenna , or , http://www.channelmasterstore.com , CM5018 All channel antenna aimed at about 80 degree magnetic compass direction.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

Use a Real and Actual magnetic compass to aim antenna.

I recommend install the antenna Above the Peak of the Roof in such a manner that the roof and building are not , obstructing , impeding , blocking , reception in the directions of , North East , East , North West , West , South West.

Here are some above the roof antenna antenna mounts.

http://www.ronard.com/909911.html.
Use the , ronard(911) , 5 foot tripod antenna mount.

http://www.ronard.com/34424560.html.
Use the , ronard(4560) , eave antenna mount.

http://www.ronard.com/ychim.html.
Measure around the chimney and use a , ronard(2212) , ronard(2218) , ronard(2224).

Buy the ronard antenna mounts at , http://www.solidsignal.com , buy typing , ronard(x) , in the solidsignal search box , or , buy from , http://www.ronard.com.

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Here are some places to buy antennas and etc. .

http://www.antennacraft.net.

http://www.channelmasterstore.com.

http://www.amazon.com.

http://www.solidsignal.com.

http://www.ronard.com.

http://www.hollandelectronics.com

---------------

Install a RCA , TVPRAMP1R , preamplifier.

---------------

For 1 Tv connected use No splitter.

For 2 Tv's connected use a , Holland Electronics , HFS-2D , 2 way splitter.

For 3 Tv's connected use a , Holland Electronics , HFS-3D , 3 way splitter.

Buy the , HFS-2D and HFS-3D , splitters at , http://www.solidsignal.com , or , http://www.hollandelectronics.com.

Last edited by teleview; 1-Jan-2014 at 6:01 PM. Reason: Clarify information and typos.
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Old 31-Dec-2013, 8:31 PM   #4
StephanieS
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Posts: 442
Hello Dacii1966,

I like to ask what your reception criteria is? What stations do you want to receive?

Elmo gives you great advice in that you need more than just an antenna that does UHF. Philadelphia not only has low band VHFs MeTV (KJWP) and ABC (WVPI). There is also hi-band VHF PBS (WHYY). The rest are then UHF. That requires antenna that is suited to the three reception bands.

If I were content with Philadelphia broadcasts exclusively, I might opt for a Antennacraft C290 mounted above the roof with an unobstructed view orientated to magnetic 65. I would expect to see all Philadelphia broadcasts with the exception of perhaps the red shaded signals.

The attic mount is not favored for a multitude of reasons. First, it introduces a solid object the broadcast signals must pass through which is not ideal. Second, in introducing that solid object a layer of unpredictability can develop. Signals can bounce around causing multipath and degrading reception. Lastly, anything approaching 20db strength is prone to having problems. This is especially important in your situation because you already have 1-edge conditions. With your roof, you are creating 2-edge conditions with majority signals at your property arriving in the 20-30 db range.

Attics also, if you are trying for weaker signals approaching single digit db strength, you likely won't see them. The red shaded signals will not be able to pass through roof and be reliable.

For best chances of reliable reception of these 1-edge moderate signals mounting on the roof is highly suggested.

If you are intent on an attic installation, I recommend a larger more aggressive antenna. In these scenarios since signals have been further degraded by passing through your roof, you have to compensate for that loss with higher gain antenna.

For an attic installation I would step up to an Antennacraft CCS1233 to attempt to compensate for attic conditions. With the hope I would see the majority of the yellow shaded Philadelphia signals.

You also have an opportunity for a couple of Lancaster stations: NBC and FOX. If you are interested in those signals, that would require an separate antenna for reception. I might choose a Channel Master CM3020 orientated to magnetic 315. The strong channel master is selected to attempt reception of Lancaster' WLYH (CW) in addition to NBC and FOX.

I would run each antenna with a separate coax leading to a A/B switch inside your home that allows you to toggle between antennas. This allows you to orientate your antenna at its needed heading perminently and negates the need for a rotor.

In the end though, what are your goals with reception?

Last edited by StephanieS; 31-Dec-2013 at 9:12 PM.
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Old 1-Jan-2014, 4:07 PM   #5
daciii1966
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Talking Update

First..Thank you all for the help.

I can appreciate the fact that an outside antenna is better. I don't think I'm on the edge of signal strength so I can afford the roof losses and help offset that with a better antenna? I'm asking that as much as saying it... I'm basing it on the fact that with the small antenna I used for testing, I'm getting most of the channels in the mag N. 65deg area and this test antenna is the attic. If I choose not to rotate the antenna, I can fit one of the larger recommended antennas.

So I'm to the point of having to decide..but a couple more questions.

To confirm, the all band antenna (stereo typical old fashion antenna) is probably best suited for my situation...and in being conservative, the largest one that will fit (If I do go attic) will probably work the best...Is that a true statement?

That said, anyone have recommendations on a antenna that may be able to refold or come apart if assembled in the attic in case I need to move it.. I know, I want it all... I figure if not, the antenna in the attic can stay and pickup stations in one direction and if I add another antenna I will put it outside to cover the fringe stations...

I searched the site, but could not find information discussing losses or problems if two antennas are connected together. I'm sure this has come up so can anyone point me to a link which discusses if/why/pros/cons to trying to do that?

Again, thanks for all of the info....I'm a slow learner...but learning...
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Old 1-Jan-2014, 6:44 PM   #6
daciii1966
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4
PS

I found this multi bay antenna
http://www.channelmasterstore.com/Di.../cm-4228hd.htm

Elmo (or anyone else w/ comments etc) Would this address the VHF concerns you mentioned? Looks like they mention VHF? But not sure of it's pickup capability..

Thanks all
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Old 1-Jan-2014, 6:53 PM   #7
elmo
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In general, joining antennas is best done using a device meant to merge signals; like a Jointenna, UVSJ or HD Homerun. Otherwise you're likely to be introducing multi-path which can confuse many tuners. Not that it hasn't been done. Simplicity is my suggestion - the best configuration w/the least amount of devices/factors/etc. If you can install a large enough all channel antenna in the attic and be pleased with the reception from just the ENE towers, then you're golden.

To answer your antenna question, the bigger the are, the more directional they are and thus can pull in more distant signal as aimed. Stepping up what would normally be fine outside would be good for the attic to offset losses. Consider that wood and especially metal surfaces in the attic will play with your signal and you may have to tweak direction a bit to reject multi-path signals. So test carefully before you mount it for good. In that testing, check signal strengths on your TV for each channel you plan on viewing. It varies from tuner to tuner, but if the meter drops under 60% or so, you'll probably start to see some signal breakup. So obviously, tune for the best average you can get. It's winter so leaves are few, so if there's trees around, assume some loss come summer when the trees are full sail.

And don't let marketing fool you. "Old fashioned" antennas are where it's at! There's nothing magical about smaller antennas with "NASA inspired" designs. They just have less gain which is less of a factor the closer you are to the towers.

Good luck!
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Old 1-Jan-2014, 6:53 PM   #8
GroundUrMast
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If you must put it in the attic...

No available all-channel antenna is going to be 'too-big' even if you mount outside, free of the impairments of the attic environment. The big Winegard antennas are difficult to re-fold. Try an Antennacraft or Channel Master.

Hopefully, you attic is better than most...
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If the well is dry and you don't see rain on the horizon, you'll need to dig the hole deeper. (If the antenna can't get the job done, an amp won't fix it.)

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Old 1-Jan-2014, 7:02 PM   #9
teleview
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The VHF low band channels are 2 thru 6.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KJWP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WPVI-DT

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WACP.

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The tvfool channel list columns shows the Real Channels that are Transmitted and Received and the , Virtual Number.

An example and not the only example is , WCAU , Real UHF channel 34 , virtual number , (10.1). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WCAU.

__________________________________

The Current Tv Channels that are being transmitted and received in the , USA , Canada , Mexico , are ,

VHF low band channels 2 thru 6.

VHF high band channels 7 thru 13.

UHF band channels 14 thru 51.

__________________________________

As to installing a antenna in the attic , I can not recommend it , I back away , because of the 1 and 2 edge path obstructions in the directions of reception.

However as always you are free to any install any antenna at any location.

Last edited by teleview; 1-Jan-2014 at 11:01 PM. Reason: Clarify information and typos.
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