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Old 11-Jul-2014, 1:10 AM   #1
germm
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Please help! Extremely frustrated.

For many reasons, I have to get rid of Directv. We don't watch it enough to justify the payment and the channels that we do watch are all local channels.

Here is my information:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e1c68143e3fc99

I have tried everything I can think of to find local channels, but I can only receive from the transmitter behind our house. I have tried an ANT751 (returned it) and now have a DB4e. I have changed the height of the mast, placed it in different places on the roof, raised it as high as possible, and added a preamplifier....I still cannot receive any of the major channels. What frustrates me more is that I have two neighbors in similiar situations that both receve up to 26 channels. My home sits lower than one of the homes and higher than the other. I do have homes, about 30 feet higher than ours, in our reception path. Shouldn't be enough of an obstruction to receive at least one or two channels

I don't get it. I am so frustrated. I have tried every angle. It leads me to believe there is a problem with the cable or my TV tuner just cant receive the UHF channels (for some reason). Please help. Is there anything else I can try? Would a DB8 be more effective? how about a clearstream 4? is there anything I can do to the antenna to make it work?
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Old 11-Jul-2014, 1:36 AM   #2
tomfoolery
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Are you sure the TV is set to 'antenna' rather than 'cable', and did you do a rescan?
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Old 11-Jul-2014, 1:37 AM   #3
germm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomfoolery View Post
Are you sure the TV is set to 'antenna' rather than 'cable', and did you do a rescan?
Yes. I goes through the full scan of TV and DTV channels. I skip the cable channels.

Yes. I have rescanned many times.

any other ideas? Could the proximity of the homes above us really affect our reception enough to not be able to receive any channels? Dumb question, but should I be able to receive these channels?

Last edited by germm; 11-Jul-2014 at 2:00 AM.
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Old 11-Jul-2014, 10:56 AM   #4
ADTech
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Quote:
My home sits lower than one of the homes and higher than the other. I do have homes, about 30 feet higher than ours, in our reception path. Shouldn't be enough of an obstruction to receive at least one or two channels
Weak UHF signals are readily blocked by close-in obstacles such as buildings and trees.

Quote:
but I can only receive from the transmitter behind our house.
Is that the 3ABN station (K43JV)? If so, the tuner is set correctly to "antenna" and the antenna and cable is working. Is that station analog or digital?

How old is your TV set? If older that 2007, what is the make and model?
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Last edited by ADTech; 11-Jul-2014 at 10:59 AM.
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Old 11-Jul-2014, 3:43 PM   #5
germm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADTech View Post
Weak UHF signals are readily blocked by close-in obstacles such as buildings and trees.
I can try a different edge of the home to see if it has a better angle. I can increase the size of the mast also, if needed. I wasn't able to added length to the mast last night because of a lightning storm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ADTech View Post
Is that the 3ABN station (K43JV)? If so, the tuner is set correctly to "antenna" and the antenna and cable is working. Is that station analog or digital?
The only station I receive is 32.1 (Univision) which has a repeater on the mountain behind our home. I cannot see repeater on the TVFool analytic page, but I can see it from my window.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ADTech View Post
How old is your TV set? If older that 2007, what is the make and model?
The TV used was produced in 2006-2007 area. I have other options, but this tv is closest to the antenna. It is an LG 42LC2D

http://www.cnet.com/products/lg-42lc2d/specs/

I have a new tv I can try, if you believe this is the issue. are there any tricks to tuning the DB4e? The pre-amplifier I am using is a PA-18.

Last edited by germm; 11-Jul-2014 at 3:47 PM.
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Old 11-Jul-2014, 6:31 PM   #6
ADTech
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KUTH (Univision) does not own or operate any translators. They got approval back in 2012 to move to Farnsworth Peak from that mountain just across the lake from Provo. I've never heard if they completed that move.

Your TV set is a hybrid model that was common during that very short time frame. The set has TWO F-connectors on the back. You have to be certain that you are using the upper one (the lower one is for cable only). If you happened to hook up to the CABLE input, you'll get some very strange results when you scan. Please check that.
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Old 31-Jul-2014, 9:38 PM   #7
germm
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Good news

After much work, I have finally got a signal on my home. In fact, i got up 30 channels (all major channels except Fox). It may look bad, but I have a DB4e on an 11 foot mast...it was the only way to get a signal. But, I am hoping to get fox and increase the clarity of some of the others.

I purchased the Antennas direct PA-18 as a preamp for the signal, but I could 't get it work (and yes I tried everything). It would only decrease the number of channels received.

Can someone advise me to a pre-amp that will help boost the signal? I have two runs of over 60' of cable. Are there any other options I can try to fix these issues?
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Old 31-Jul-2014, 11:08 PM   #8
teleview
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+=>

Here is 10 foot tripod antenna mount , to install above the roof.

http://www.ronard.com/712.html.

Roanrd (712-50-10)

http://www.ronard.com.

--------

Home Depot has , 10 foot 6 inch , 1 and 3/8 inch diameter , TOP RAIL , chain link fence , PIPE , that makes good antenna mast/pipe , a low price of about 12 dollars.

------------------------------------------

To collect more signal install a Antennas Direct DB8e UHF antenna.

http://www.amazon.com.

------------------------

Aim the DB8e UHF antenna at about , 309 degree magnetic compass direction.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

Use a real and actual magnetic compass to aim antenna , do not trust a , cell phone , tablet and etc. compass.

------------------------

Install a , http://www.antennacraft.net.

10G201 preamplifier.

------------------------

If 1 Tv is connected use No splitter.

If 2 Tv's are connected use a , Holland Electronics , HFS-2D , 2 way splitter.

If 3 Tv's are connected use a , Holland Electronics , HFS-3D , 3 way splitter.

Buy the , HFS-2D , HFS-3D , splitters at , http://www.hollandelectronics.com , or , http://www.amazon.com.

-------------------------

For all coax that is installed outside , use RG-6 coax that has the , Compression type connectors on the ends of the coax.

Not the old style crimp type connectors.

Reason , keeps water out of connections and coax.
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Old 31-Jul-2014, 11:31 PM   #9
Jake V
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Question for the Experts: All of the major networks Germm is seeking are at magnetic 309 degrees, ranging from the best (KPNZ, IND) at 5.5 dB and the worst (KUCW, CW) at -5.7 dB. Is a DB4e the best antenna for his plot? ISTM that for a plot like his the usually recommendation is either a DB8e or a HBU-44, or even a HBU-55.
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Old 1-Aug-2014, 12:39 AM   #10
ADTech
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There are no VHF stations in Salt Lake City, so that eliminates all the combo antennas. Our DB8, DB8e, or 91XG would be my usual recommendations.

Quote:
Antennas direct PA-18 as a preamp for the signal, but I could 't get it work
It should have worked fine except it looks like you're in a very strong FM signal zone. A simple $4-5 FM filter or two between the antenna and the amp should fix it. If you still have the amp on hand, run down to Radio Shack and purchase two of them and a a couple of short jumpers.

The other very, very common problem is when using coax re-purposed from cable or satellite installs. DC-blocking splitters or incompatible satellite multi-switches are the usual problems in those cases.
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Old 1-Aug-2014, 4:00 PM   #11
germm
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I will get a couple of the FM filters. Hopefully this will help with the PA 18. I have a few more days to work with it before I have to ship it back to Amazon if it doesn't work.

@adtech You mentioned different antennas. Given the information that you have read about my situation, which of the antennas that you recommended do you feel would be most adequate for my home?

Here is a bit more information. I have it dialed in exactly how to get the best reception possible. I have marked this spot on my mast and mount. With a very directional high gain antenna, I feel I could get a very good signal. If I move the mast 2 or 3 feet from that spot, I drop from 30 channels to 10 or less channels. If I move the mast over the crest of my roof, I will pick up FOX (which I normally don't get), but I cannot get CBS, NBC, or ABC (this is only around 5 feet from my preferred spot). You can probably see my frustration.

I wouldn't be opposed to mounting two different antennas on my roof, If I didn't have to put the antenna on a 10 foot mast. It looks bad, but heck, it works, and that's what matters. I'm hoping that with the use of a higher gain antenna and the FM filters near the preamp, I will be able to get access to all channels with one antenna.
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Old 1-Aug-2014, 5:06 PM   #12
teleview
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+=>

Your reception location currently has No VHF channels 2 thru 13 to receive.

So install a , Antennas Direct DB8e , current UHF channels 14 thru 51 antenna as recommend in my post above.

Tvfool radar report and channel list shows the , Real Channels , that are transmitted and received.

And also shows the , (virt) , virtual numbers.

(virt) virtual numbers are Not Real Channels , even if (virt) virtual number is the same as the Real Channel.
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Old 1-Aug-2014, 7:29 PM   #13
germm
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by teleview View Post
+=>

Here is 10 foot tripod antenna mount , to install above the roof.

http://www.ronard.com/712.html.

Roanrd (712-50-10)

http://www.ronard.com.

--------

Home Depot has , 10 foot 6 inch , 1 and 3/8 inch diameter , TOP RAIL , chain link fence , PIPE , that makes good antenna mast/pipe , a low price of about 12 dollars.

------------------------------------------

To collect more signal install a Antennas Direct DB8e UHF antenna.

http://www.amazon.com.

------------------------

Aim the DB8e UHF antenna at about , 309 degree magnetic compass direction.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

Use a real and actual magnetic compass to aim antenna , do not trust a , cell phone , tablet and etc. compass.

------------------------

Install a , http://www.antennacraft.net.

10G201 preamplifier.

------------------------

If 1 Tv is connected use No splitter.

If 2 Tv's are connected use a , Holland Electronics , HFS-2D , 2 way splitter.

If 3 Tv's are connected use a , Holland Electronics , HFS-3D , 3 way splitter.

Buy the , HFS-2D , HFS-3D , splitters at , http://www.hollandelectronics.com , or , http://www.amazon.com.

-------------------------

For all coax that is installed outside , use RG-6 coax that has the , Compression type connectors on the ends of the coax.

Not the old style crimp type connectors.

Reason , keeps water out of connections and coax.
Thanks for this information Teleview. I am not sure why i missed it yesterday. Some great recommendations here.
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Old 2-Aug-2014, 2:15 AM   #14
ADTech
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Okay, I finally looked at your approximate location by working backwards from your plot which should put you very close to 40.403793,-111.931664

You're on the back side of a slope that's 1200' up to the peaks and the signals are mostly going over your head, Only very, very faint signals will actually make it down to rooftop level, if they make it at all.

The best you can do is get the antenna up as high as possible, tilt it back so it's bore-sited on the visible horizon in the direction of Farnsworth Peak, and then cross your fingers.
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Old 4-Aug-2014, 4:55 PM   #15
germm
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More efforts this weekend

With the help of ADTech and Teleview, I have a much better signal to the splitter. In an area, on the house, where I used to only get 10 channels, I am not up to 35. It was a great improvement using the pre-amplifier FM traps from Radio Shack.

But, I still can't get FOX tuned in. And with football season coming, I am starting to get more discouraged that I will not be able to receive this channel. With ADTech's latest post about crossing my fingers if it will work, I feel there might not be anything else I can try. My last effort would be to purchase a DB8e. Given everything I have tried and the poor signal to my current DB4e, do you think purchasing a DB8e will really help my cause? I know there are no guarantees, but I would at least like opinions about the receiving power of the DB8e. Or would it make any difference to try a directional yagi antenna?

Thanks for your help. This will probably be my final post on this matter. Unless I find a way to get it all to work

Also, for ADTech, you seem to know our area well. Farnsworth peak is starting to be hidden by more and more of the developing areas of our community. In Utah County, the population growth is mostly in hidden areas. Have you heard of any discussion of placing a translator, for the major channels, on Lake Mountain? It seems to me that this move would make much sense being that most people who build in our area will not be able to get the over-the-air channels from Farnsworth Peak. I know this would come at a great cost to the local stations, but I have my fingers crossed.

Last edited by germm; 4-Aug-2014 at 5:08 PM.
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Old 4-Aug-2014, 5:26 PM   #16
tomfoolery
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Quote:
Originally Posted by germm View Post
My last effort would be to purchase a DB8e. Given everything I have tried and the poor signal to my current DB4e, do you think purchasing a DB8e will really help my cause? I know there are no guarantees, but I would at least like opinions about the receiving power of the DB8e. Or would it make any difference to try a directional yagi antenna?
Looking at the performance data sheets for the DB4e, DB8e, and 91XG, the gain at 546 MHz (corresponds to channel 26, close to channel 28 which is what you're trying to get for football) is 15.4 dBi for the DB8e, 12.59 dBi for the DB4e, and 13.68 dBi for the 91XG. Doubling the size of the DB4e by going to the DB8e adds about 3dB, which makes sense (twice the signal power). Maybe you can add another DB4e on the same mast, but I don't know if that would be as easy to do as it sounds (and have it work as well as the DB8e). But I believe the elevation beam width would get narrower, so you'd probably have to tilt the whole mast back a bit so they're aimed at the visible horizon.

Whether or not adding 3dB is worth it or not, I couldn't even begin to guess, but doubling the received power at the antenna certainly sounds good at least.

I'd probably try it, as a last gasp effort, though. If it works, return or sell the DB4e.

Click the 'Documents' tab for each antenna, and then the 'Technical Data' link, and you can see the data sheets. AD does a great job with these. Wish all the others put that much info out there.

https://www.antennasdirect.com/store..._Antennas.html
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