Help! From Lancaster California

pkw11 · 4-Jul-2011, 4:43 AM

I live in the Antelope Valley north of Los Angeles. I need help with my UHF reception and would appreciate anyone's advice. Here's my TV Signal Analysis:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...c77a4503495d06

--I just ditched my Dish Network and put up a small RCA ANT751 antenna on the Dish Network satellite post and pointed it right at Mt Wilson. I could not get KCET (28), KLCS (41) or KTLA (31). On my new Panasonic TV it showed that I was picking up a signal of 15-30%, but there was no image.

I then got a Winegard preampllifier (AP-8275) and things improved--now I can get KTLA and all of the L.A. VHF stations great. I also can get KLCS and sometimes KCET, but most of the time KCET's signal is too weak.

I get KMEX (34) and KFTR (46) really well with strong signals. I also get 54 (KAZA) occasionally. I'm not interested in these 3 stations, though!

I really would like to get KSCI (18) and KCET--what are my options? Thanks!

John Candle · 5-Jul-2011, 5:24 AM

I suggest a Winegard HD7084P antenna and the AP8275 preamp aimed at about 171 true - 158 degree magnetic compass. The HD7084P antenna receives VHF low band channels 2 thru 6. K39GY real digital channel 2 is shown in the , Pending Applications Included. I typed K39GY 2 in the Google search and found that the network programing is , http://www.americaone.com , and other programing.

John Candle · 5-Jul-2011, 5:27 AM

Read and understand about , REAL Digital Broadcast Tv Channels , Virtual Digital Broadcast Tv Channels , Analog Broadcast Tv Channels , http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=695

Dave Loudin · 5-Jul-2011, 2:06 PM

John, please listen to the OP - he has a successful VHF setup already. Let's focus on what he wants.

pkw11, you are getting oustanding results with what you have - a modest-gain antenna trying to pick up signals that have scattered over a pretty tall obstruction. Click on any of the stations of interest in your TVFool report to pop up a path profile to see what I mean. Since you are happy with your VHF setup, let's try leaving it alone.

As a first step - try aiming the RCA up a few degrees. Although it does not discriminate much between above/below the horizon, tilting it up aims the maximum gain more towards where the signals are coming from out of the sky. I don't think you've going to get KSCI, but it's worth a shot.

What I think you will ultimately need is the big gun for UHF - an Antennas Direct 91XG. I'm suggesting this yagi-style versus a stacked bow-tie array because the 91XG will be sensitive over a bit broader range of angles of elevation than the bow-ties will. When installing the 91XG, definitely tilt it up a few degrees to put the peak gain more towards where the signals will be coming from. Its mounting bracket is specifically designed to do this. Combine that antenna's feed with your existing RCA antenna with a UVSJ device like this to keep any UHF from the RCA from interfering with what you pull from the 91XG.

John Candle · 5-Jul-2011, 6:20 PM

Dave you can stop using the question askers as a way to attack me. And you can stop jerking the question askers around , because you know that they do not know as much as you.

pkw11 · 5-Jul-2011, 7:27 PM

Dave and John,
Thanks for your suggestions. I'll try pointing my RCA antenna up--right now it's horizontal. I had no idea that changing the inclination might help.

Sorry if I wasn't clearer, but it's correct that my current setup is getting all of the L.A. VHF stations fine. I'm not interested in other channels not located on Mt. Wilson. The UHF stations, KCET and KSCI, are also on Mt. Wilson. If I could get these two stations, I'd be very happy.

My house has concrete roof tiles so I'm limited in my antenna mounting positions since I don't want to mess around drilling holes ect. My satellite dish post is bolted to the roof fascia board and so I'd like to mount a similar type of post with a second antenna.

Thanks for the help! I'll let you know how it works out.

Tower Guy · 5-Jul-2011, 7:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Loudin

What I think you will ultimately need is the big gun for UHF - an Antennas Direct 91XG.

I concur. You need at least 10 db more antenna gain on UHF than the ANT751.

John Candle · 5-Jul-2011, 8:15 PM

Read and understand about , REAL Digital Broadcast Tv Channels , Virtual Digital Broadcast Tv Channels , Analog Broadcast Tv Channels , http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=695.

Dave Loudin · 5-Jul-2011, 9:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Candle

Dave you can stop using the question askers as a way to attack me. And you can stop jerking the question askers around , because you know that they do not know as much as you.

Again, John, this is a discussion centered only on the technical merits. The OP has a successful VHF setup in a challenging environment. Let's not break anything!

I don't know what to say about "jerking the question asker around." I read what he was asking for, researched his stuation, gave him a tip that might help a little in the interim, and offered a solution with a modest explanation.

Dave Loudin · 5-Jul-2011, 9:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pkw11

Sorry if I wasn't clearer, but it's correct that my current setup is getting all of the L.A. VHF stations fine. I'm not interested in other channels not located on Mt. Wilson. The UHF stations, KCET and KSCI, are also on Mt. Wilson. If I could get these two stations, I'd be very happy.

What you want is all from Mt. Wilson, for sure. However, the tower sites are not exactly in the same place up there. With the complex terrain, just a little difference in location can make a big difference in path obstructions. Check out the path profiles for the stations you are after (especially KSCI) and you can see what I mean. You'll also see why you want to aim the antenna up a little.

I'm pleasantly surprised by your current results. However, there's no need to fool around with mid-sized antennas to get what you want. Go for the XG.

BrettBA · 12-Jul-2011, 3:04 PM

I live in Palmdale and have a Winegard HD8200U with Winegard AP8275 Preamp. I get the PBS stations very good and live where you wouldn't think would get it. Mesa Verde Avenue in Palmdale off 5th West. I get all the local except for channel 5, not sure why I can't get it.

John Candle · 12-Jul-2011, 6:16 PM

BrettaBA. What channel 5 is that. Is it KTLA real channel 31 , virtual channel 5.1 , the CW??

pkw11 · 12-Jul-2011, 6:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettBA

I live in Palmdale and have a Winegard HD8200U with Winegard AP8275 Preamp. I get the PBS stations very good and live where you wouldn't think would get it. Mesa Verde Avenue in Palmdale off 5th West. I get all the local except for channel 5, not sure why I can't get it.

Can you get channel 18? At first before I installed the preamp I couldn't get Channel 5 (KTLA, real 31). I can get KTLA fine now but the signal is relatively weak.

BrettBA · 12-Jul-2011, 7:05 PM

The (CW) 5.1 channel is very weak. Maybe the transmitter is further around the mtn or not as strong. I get 5 KCET channels that come in very clear. Here's my report.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...03d9c9ec58d50a

I also use a 25 db booster on my older LG LCD, the tuner is not as strong as the new Samsung I have. You're further out than I am, but have more chance of the signal reflection than I do since I am so close to the mtn here. I'm not sure about KSCI, I'll check tonight exactly which UHF channels I pick up.

John Candle · 12-Jul-2011, 8:45 PM

KTLA the CW is transmitting on Real Channel 31 UHF. The signal will be very weak at -5.1 NM(dB) try adj. the aim of the antenna for best reception of KTLA. Can also go into tvfool and raise the antenna height and see if that will move the KTLA NM (dB) number into the positive numbers. I have an other question , is K39GY Real channel 2 being received , the programing is America One.

BrettBA · 12-Jul-2011, 11:25 PM

You know, I'm not really sure if it's the real or virtual. I know it's HD and it's the same channels 2, 4, 7, 9, 11, 13 that I always get. Maybe my tuner substitutes the numbers automatically. The Samsung autotunes it when I do a channel search and the only channel not coming in is 5 CW. I have to check on 31 and see if it's there. I pick up the Barstow cam on 61 or somewhere around there too.

John Candle · 13-Jul-2011, 12:01 AM

Read and understand about , REAL Digital Broadcast Tv Channels , Virtual Digital Broadcast Tv Channels , Analog Broadcast Tv Channels , http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=695. Are you receiving America One Programing , http://www.americaone.com ??

John Candle · 13-Jul-2011, 12:29 AM

It's known as PSIP (channel mapping) The Tv station can put any channel number on the Tv screen for you to look at , even the real channel number. The Low band Tv channels 2 thru 6 are not so good for Digital Tv transmission and reception because of , electrical interference , electronic interference , and natural interference such as lightning. I am collecting information about low band 2 thru 6 reception. So what I will like to know is , is America One being received and are there any drop outs of the reception?? Or is it clear and steady all the time??

BrettBA · 13-Jul-2011, 3:48 AM

All the channels I get are very clear and crisp HD really steady and no ghosting/tracking/etc except when the wind is shaking the antenna. It probably is America One as you mentioned. I haven't had the TV on OTA for a couple of days as I just got my BUD and smaller dish connected after shutting off DirecTV. I'm still programming channels and transponder frequencies into the FTA receivers and I noticed today I need to go up to the OTA antenna and put a different bolt into the wall for the top restraint mount and add some guy wire due to the wind blowing so hard over the last few months it's loosened one side of the mount. Won't do to have it come loose and come down. It's mounted on 10' of 1-1/2" EMT about 4 feet above the roof line with 4 standoff mounts on the wall. I want to add another mount and the guy wire this weekend if I have time. Here's a picture of my current setup.06212011356.jpg

BrettBA · 13-Jul-2011, 3:55 AM

John,

I remember we talked last year when I first mounted the antenna. I am still looking to put a rotor on it, but I'm waiting for the right price on a heavy duty ham mover on ebay, I've seen a few, but always got past my bid when I was at work.