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Old 6-Oct-2015, 5:01 PM   #1
garek007
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Will a tuner improve my reception? Help! My girlfriend is going to make us get cable!

Hello,

Here is my tvfool report
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...8e03ebdf3654ee

I live in a condo building facing inward to the courtyard. Surprisingly, I am able to pick up all the major networks. In order to do this though, I have to move the antenna for CBS and ABC. AND the cord is strewn across the room.

For me, it's a small price to pay to not have to pay the evil demon Time Warner. She is growing tired of the reception issues and the fact that the cord just hangs there.

I'm using a Winegard Flatwave Non Amplified antenna. I think the reason I have trouble with CBS and ABC is that the tower is on top of Mt Soledad and we are at the base of Mt Soledad.

So I need a little help. I've read about the Tablo which also has a DVR and can stream the signal to my Chromecast. This would mean I could put the antenna completely out of site and no cord will be shown.

So firstly, will a tuner improve my reception? Secondly, anyone have experience with the Tablo? Or can someone recommend a reasonable DVR+Tuner? Tivo seems expensive....
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Old 6-Oct-2015, 5:48 PM   #2
rabbit73
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Welcome garek007:

The results with an indoor antenna are difficult to predict, because you have signal reflections bouncing around that can interfere with the direct signal. If you are willing to experiment to try to avoid the cable option, I suggest you try the Antennas Direct C2V antenna, which has a base for indoor use. It has a double loop for your UHF channels (real channels 14-51) and a dipole for VHF-High (7-13) that can be separately positioned for channels like CBS and ABC. No preamp should be needed or used.
https://www.antennasdirect.com/store...-Complete.html
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/antennas...=1218809260470
https://www.antennasdirect.com/cmss_...ickStart_f.pdf

Aim the UHF loops SE and position the dipole broadside (perpendicular to) 2 degrees magnetic. Try different indoor locations and extend the coax with an F81 adapter if necessary.

Remember the words of Dr. Phil: "If momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy."

Because of the nesting instinct for the survival of the human race, a woman considers all areas in a home or apartment "her areas," and subject to her approval, even a "man cave."

Quote:
So firstly, will a tuner improve my reception?
I don't know. What are you using to receive the signals now?

The Chromecast has been known to cause interference to VHF signals like your CBS and ABC. Keep your system simple, most women like that better.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 6-Oct-2015 at 6:32 PM.
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Old 6-Oct-2015, 5:50 PM   #3
garek007
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Thanks I did try that antenna based on things I've read here. I wasn't able to pick up CBS or ABC. The only antenna that helped me do that was the winegard flatwave. So I think the antenna part is good, but is there any truth to a tuner improving reception? Or is that false?
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Old 6-Oct-2015, 6:48 PM   #4
rabbit73
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Quote:
is there any truth to a tuner improving reception? Or is that false?
Some tuners are a little more sensitive and better able to deal with multipath reflections than others, but the differences are minor. You still haven't told us what you are using now with your Winegard antenna.
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Old 6-Oct-2015, 6:54 PM   #5
garek007
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Sorry. Right now the antenna is just plugged directly into the coax input of my (fairly old) Samsung TV....
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Old 6-Oct-2015, 7:27 PM   #6
rabbit73
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Thank you.

Does the Samsung have a signal strength indicator to help you position your antenna?
Quote:
My girlfriend is going to make us get cable!
Is she willing to pay for all or half of it?

You have some very strong FM transmitters only 2 miles away that might be causing interference to TV reception of CBS and ABC. See attachment.
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/produc...-FM-88-/33-341

Instead of the FM filter, you can use a HLSJ as an FM filter, common and high ports, because it will attenuate everything below channel 7 including the FM band.
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=zhlsj
http://www.nsccom.com/hlsj.aspx

There is also the possibility of tuner overload from TV and FM signals. Try an attenuator in the coax line. A splitter can be used as an attenuator; 3.5 dB for a 2-way and 7 dB for a 4-way.
or
https://www.antennasdirect.com/store...ttenuator.html
http://www.3starinc.com/drop_in-line_attenuator.html
http://home-automation.smarthome.com...=&w=attenuator
http://mjsales.net/collections/atten...ant=1083705673
•Attenuation values 1, 3, 6, 8, 10, 12, 16, 20dB (FAM)
click on 1 dB for other values; the up and down arrows are faint
Attached Images
File Type: jpg garek007TVF FM est.JPG (100.0 KB, 403 views)
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Last edited by rabbit73; 7-Oct-2015 at 7:42 PM.
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Old 6-Oct-2015, 7:46 PM   #7
garek007
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Hmmm not sure where would I look for that? In the menu?
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Old 6-Oct-2015, 7:48 PM   #8
rabbit73
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It might not have it, but my Samsung does. What model number is it?
Quote:
In the menu?
yes, sometimes under channel.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 6-Oct-2015 at 8:04 PM.
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Old 6-Oct-2015, 7:50 PM   #9
garek007
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I will check when I get home thanks
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Old 6-Oct-2015, 8:06 PM   #10
rabbit73
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Mine is here
Menu > Support > Self Diagnosis > Signal Strength
it has 10 bars
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Old 7-Oct-2015, 12:04 AM   #11
Billiam
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I've recently done some head to head tests with my Samsung, Sony and Insignia TV's. I've found the Insignia has the best tuner for locking onto weak signals.
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Old 7-Oct-2015, 3:46 PM   #12
garek007
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Ok I'm attaching some images

I've attached images. CBS wasn't coming in very well and had 2-3 bars. A good channel on my TV had 9 bars. There is a sweet spot in my home where I can get more bars on CBS, but I could not hit it this morning.

I contacted Tablo and they said their DVR would not improve reception. But if it has some kind of tuner, any kind of tuner, won't it help a little?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg CBS.jpg (313.5 KB, 396 views)
File Type: jpg goodNBC.jpg (303.3 KB, 431 views)
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Old 7-Oct-2015, 4:26 PM   #13
Tim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garek007 View Post
But if it has some kind of tuner, any kind of tuner, won't it help a little?
From reading this thread it seems that you think a "tuner" will somehow improve your reception. Are you thinking that the tuner built into your TV set is inferior to having a separate external tuner? It looks like you have a good signal on NBC on real channel 40 so I don't think you have a tuner problem.

Last edited by Tim; 7-Oct-2015 at 4:37 PM.
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Old 7-Oct-2015, 5:34 PM   #14
garek007
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Yes I thought I read somewhere that some TVs have inferior tuners and that if you purchased one, it would help with the signal. I already tried the antenna suggested above, but I had no luck. Perhaps I did something wrong? I did not realize it was designed to catch both UHF and VHF.
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Old 7-Oct-2015, 7:14 PM   #15
Tim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garek007 View Post
Yes I thought I read somewhere that some TVs have inferior tuners and that if you purchased one, it would help with the signal. I already tried the antenna suggested above, but I had no luck. Perhaps I did something wrong? I did not realize it was designed to catch both UHF and VHF.
Which antennas have you tried?
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Old 7-Oct-2015, 7:22 PM   #16
rabbit73
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Thanks for the images for signal strength. Either the tuner in the Samsung is bad on VHF-High CBS and ABC channels or your antenna isn't good for those channels. You will need to do some experiments to find out.

Can you borrow a TV to see if there is a problem with your TV?

Can you insert an attenuator between the antenna and the TV to see if it is weak signal or overload?

The problem might be overload from very strong local FM signals that interfere with the reception of CBS and ABC. Are you willing to try a filter to help with that?

If it is a weak signal from your antenna because it isn't good enough for CBS and ABC are you willing to try another antenna for CBS and ABC with no guarantee that it will help?
__________________
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Last edited by rabbit73; 7-Oct-2015 at 7:25 PM.
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Old 7-Oct-2015, 7:24 PM   #17
garek007
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mohu leaf metro and regular, and the Channel Master Rabbit point to earlier ClearStream™ 2V.

In fact, I just saw a bunch of links that I didn't see before. Sorry, I'm going to go back through and check those out now.
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Old 7-Oct-2015, 7:25 PM   #18
garek007
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I would add that I've had the most luck getting CBS and ABC with my Winegard Flatwave FL5000
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Old 7-Oct-2015, 7:28 PM   #19
garek007
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Hey guys, I don't know why I didn't notice rabbit73's links before. Maybe because I was on my phone. I'm going to try an attenuator and perhaps that C2V antenna one more time. First I'll try the attenuator, if that doesn't work, I'll try the C2V again. I'll keep you posted!
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Old 7-Oct-2015, 7:32 PM   #20
rabbit73
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What tuner do you want to buy that you think will help?

Try FM filter first.
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html

Last edited by rabbit73; 7-Oct-2015 at 7:35 PM.
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