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Old 6-Jan-2015, 12:22 AM   #1
RUIN2OTA?
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Great website ! read a lot of the forum inquires and answers, they provided me with guidance to get the most from our antenna and newTV . However I feel there is a bit more I can do to get one more channel and clean up others that is why I am writing you.
Here is my TV Fool report:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...2c15769aeefc27

Setup:
18 year old antenna purchased from Radio Shack (SEE ATTACHED PHOTO)
New R6 coax cable run from antenna 25 to splitter. Splitter to primary TV approximately 30 feet of R6 coax cable. Splitter to second TV 60 FT of R6 coax cable.
House has a standing seam steel clad roof, trees in direction of stations to the north limbs pruned in antenna path.

Background:
Never had cable or satellite dish, for the last 18 years we have been using a roof top antenna.
Prior to the analog to digital switchover we received Channel (CH) 4 ABC, CH 5 NBC, CH 7 CBS, CH9 & CH 28 PBS, CH 13 Fox and some other UHF channels. We viewed these channels on a 31 inch JCV CRT TV.
When the analog to digital switchover occurred we procured a converter box, at that time we had more selection of channels to view. However when it came to viewing ABC KOMO 38 (4.1/.3) or CBS KIRO 39 (7.1/.2) we would have to make a long term decision because we could not switch between those channels from the converter box. I would have to go rooftop and rotate the antenna mast less than a half of an inch counter clockwise (westward) for KOMO 38 (4.1 /.2) or clockwise (eastward) for KIRO 39 ( 7.1 /.2) with KING 48 (5.1/.2) being a hit or miss with either KOMO or KIRO
During winter months the opportunity to switch between KIRO or KOMO becomes limited because our roof becomes hazardous with the slightest amount of moisture. We had a total of 24 channels with KIRO 39 (7.1/.2) as our choice at the time.
Then tragedy struck, after 26 years the JVC died. To mourn the JVC’s demise we purchased a Sony XRB-65X850B TV, without any antenna adjustment and the converter box removed I hooked the Sony up to the antenna coax, the Sony scanned in an additional 12 channels for a total of 36 however KOMO 38 (4.1 /.2) was not included. With the new TV we wanted to add KOMO’s offerings to our viewing
selection. I rotated the antenna mast counter clockwise about a half of an inch, rescanned channel total dropped to 29 but we had KOMO 38 (4.1 /.2).
The following weekend I cleaned the antenna elements with water using a Scotch Bite pad. I cleaned all connections with contact cleaner. I added a 4 foot extension to the antenna mast, replaced the 18 year old 25ft of R6 coax run from antenna to splitter with new R6 coax of the same length and pointed the antenna towards North. We preformed a channel scan we lost KOMO 38 CH (4.1/.2) and KZJO 25 CH (22.1/.2/.3) but picked up KIRO 39 (7.1/.2) and KONG 31 (16.1/.2). I rotated the mast counter-clockwise a quarter of an inch, after another channel scan I picked up KOMO 38 (4.1/.3) and still had KONG 31 (16.1/.2). With the Seahawks /49ers game in a hour I lowered the mast 4 feet and began to receive KZJO 25 CH (22.1/.2/.3) (Seahawks game on 22.2) KOMO 38 (4.1/.2) and no longer received KIRO 39 (7.1/.2) and KONG 31 (16.1/.2) and also lost KING 48 (5.1/.2).

The next weekend I did a massive pruning job on trees and bushes in the direction of the transmission towers that are located to the North. I rescanned the TV no additional channels were found.
The next dry day with my wife at the TV she had it tuned to KZJO 25 (22.1/.2/.3) I raised the antenna until the KZJO 25 (22.1/.2/.3) signal began to break up. That was at height of an additional 3 and a half feet then I moved the antenna mast down about 6 inches. Next with the TV tuned to KOMO 38 CH (4.1/.2) I rotated the mast clockwise about a half of an inch which is about a foot of horizontal deflection at the forward end of the antenna until the channel began to break up then I rotated the mast back a quarter of an inch. We did an “add digital channel” scan we picked up an additional nine channels but still no KIRO 39 (7.1/.2) CBS.

The following weekend I removed two deciduous trees and ivy from the fir trees. With no antenna adjustments we did an “add digital channel” scan, success we picked up KIRO 39 (7.1/.2) however KIRO 39 sometimes shows as “signal cannot be decoded “ .
The antenna height is currently 28 feet above ground level. During high winds and/or heavy rain the following channels break up or have no signal KUSE 46 (.1/.2./.3/.4/.5/6), KFFV 44 (.1/.2/.3/.4), KIRO 39 (7.1/.2). and sometimes KZJO 25 (22.1/.2/.3).

With my partial success with OTA TV I’m getting greedy . Below is a list of wants in order of importance.
1. To have a more stable signal for KIRO 39 (7.1/.2) CBS.
2. To Receive channel KONG 31 (16.1/.2)
3. To have a more stable signal for KUSE 46 (.1/.2./.3/.4/.5/6).
4. To have a more stable signal for KFFV 44 (.1/.2/.3/.4)

I’m thinking of adding an additional UHF antenna like a Winegard HD-9032 and coupler and aim it in the direction of the tower where the KIRO CH 51 repeater transmitter is located (78 TD /62 MD East, North East). To receive KIRO 51 (7.1/.2) and strengthen KUSE 46 (.1-.6).

Looking at Transmitter Profile Detail KIRO 51 (7.1/.2) is rated a Max. ERP (effective radiated power) 0.950 kW, adjusted for our location it’s 0.529 kW. So my understanding is that this signal is degraded by 44% as compared to KUSE 46 a less powerful is rated at Max. ERP 0.500 kW, adjusted for our location it’s 0.409 kW or degraded by 18%, seems strange weaker signal is stronger at our location. What is the reason for that?

Would retirement of the old antenna be in order to be replaced with a new VHF 7-13 /UHF 14-59 antenna and hope KWPX 33 (.1/.2/.3/.4/.5/.6/.7) , KUSE 46 (.1/.2./.3/.4/.5/.6) are still received . I received a recommendation to purchase a Winegard MS2002 Metrostar VHF/UHF an amplified Omni-directional antenna with our location we are in a week signal area I just think this antenna will not do the job. I feel using a antenna rotor for our situation would be impractical.

Below is the list of channels we currently receive with notes on reception.
Current scan to receive
KBTC 27 (28.1/.2/.3) PBS (very good)
KWPX 33 (.1/.2/.3/.4/.5/.6/.7) Ion (very good)
KSTW 11 (.1) CW (very good)
KCTS 9 (9.1/.2/.3) PBS (very good, best overall)
KZJO 25 (22.1/.2/.3) MyN/FOX (pixilated during inclement weather otherwise very good)
KING 48 (5.1/.2) NBC (very good most of the time)
KOMO 38 (4.1/.2/.3) ABC (very good)
KIRO 39 (7.1/.2) CBS (signal unable to decode or pixilated a lot of the time even in clam weather when receiving very good quality)
KWDK 42 (56.1) (channel not required but comes in good)
KFFV 44 (.1/.2/.3/.4) (signal unable to decode or pixilated a lot of the time even in clam weather when receiving good quality)
KUSE 46 (.1/.2./.3/.4/.5/.6) ( signal unable to decode or pixilated a lot of the time even in clam weather when receiving good quality)

Advise comments? Thank You RUIN2OTA

BTW Can't wait to start receiving OTA 4K signals
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Old 6-Jan-2015, 2:49 AM   #2
ADTech
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Quote:
BTW Can't wait to start receiving OTA 4K signals
Still years away, if at all.
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Old 6-Jan-2015, 5:10 AM   #3
GroundUrMast
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I also noticed that VHF 9 & 11 tend to be affected less by weather and moving tree limbs. (I'm north of you by 20 - 30 miles).

You can certainly try combining the existing antenna and a UHF with a reversed splitter, but many have found the results to be far less satisfying than hoped due to the lack of filters, so the two antennas often 'fight' each other... Mixing a marginal or poor signal from one antenna with the good signal from the other often leave you with something akin to clean water mixed with dirty water.

If you aim a new UHF antenna at Tiger Mountain consider cabling it separately to a set top tuner connected to an aux input or better yet, an HDMI input if you have one available.

Starting from scratch, most folks in the Seattle market would do well to consider a combination of a UHF and separate H-VHF antenna. A premium solution to consider would be an Antennas Direct DB8e and an Antennacraft Y10713. This gives you plenty of gain, and the ability to fine tune aim for each band (UHF vs. H-VHF).

Combining the two antennas is best done with a UVSJ which has the filters needed to prevent interaction between the two antennas.
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Old 6-Jan-2015, 2:20 PM   #4
Tim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GroundUrMast View Post
Starting from scratch, most folks in the Seattle market would do well to consider a combination of a UHF and separate H-VHF antenna. A premium solution to consider would be an Antennas Direct DB8e and an Antennacraft Y10713. This gives you plenty of gain, and the ability to fine tune aim for each band (UHF vs. H-VHF).
In addition, the DB8e allows you to aim each 4 bay panel independently so you can fine tune your UHF channels. One panel would point about north for that group of stations and the other panel east for that group.
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Old 7-Jan-2015, 12:37 AM   #5
RUIN2OTA?
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Thanks for the response, $170 for the DB8e is a premium. As mentioned the DB8e allows you aim each 4 bay panel in a different direction. I’m planning to aim one panel at Tiger Mt. to get better reception for KUSE 46 (.1-.6) and KIRO 51 (7.1-.2). There is no problem g receiving KWPX 33 (.1-.7).
When I pull the trigger and install the DB8e and Y10713 I’m wondering when my TV scans in KIRO 39 (7.1-.2) from Seattle and KIRO 51 (7.1-.2) from Tiger Mt. with the DB8e doing the work will I:
1. End up with duplicate virtual channels 7.1/.2?
2. End up with stronger of the two KIRO’s (39 or 51)?
3. End up with “clean water mixed with dirty water” of the two KIRO UHF signals?
4. Or is this a wait and see OTA adventure?

I took a look at other 8 bay, bow-tie antennas the only other antenna with movable panels is a Solid Signal HDB8X for $70. Does the extra $100 for the DB8e make it a far superior product? Or do the HDB8X’s H-VHF elements make it a non-contender for this application?
If there is an UHF, 8 bay, bow-tie antenna with movable panels made in the USA I would be very interested in that antenna.
Again Thanks
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Old 7-Jan-2015, 12:55 AM   #6
Tim
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The DB8e is about $25 cheaper at Amazon
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Old 7-Jan-2015, 1:49 AM   #7
GroundUrMast
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Some TVs will have no problem with duplicate channels, some will be confused. It depends on the firmware that controls the TV in question.
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