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Old 15-Dec-2014, 6:32 PM   #1
SignalyDisabled
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Join Date: Dec 2014
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Reception Help in the hills of ID

I have an old antenna (25+ yrs) on my roof and the reception has degraded over the past several years, especially since the digital transition. The best reception I currently get according to my RCA digital converter box reception monitor is 27-28%.
My first move was to replace the old cable. The new one is roughly 60 to 70 ft long with one inline weather tight coupling. It is split to TV and stereo which are next to each other in the house.
As the old antenna is not much more than riveted aluminum, I was reluctant to believe that it was the issue, however, I have come to accept the idea that it may have passed its prime. I want to replace it but having tried a yogi type antenna and been burned, I want to get it right on the second go-around. I like listen to FM as well (K219LW primarily).
Any assistance as to antenna(s) type, preamps etc. rendered will be appreciated. Notes, I distrust rotating antenna configurations due to sometime dusty and extreme cold conditions. The local NBC translator (k51hf) is still analog. Single story house,no attic.
My TV profile is http://www.tvfool.com/option=com_wra...d243c395055716
And my FM profile is http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...d243c395055716
Thanx SD
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Old 15-Dec-2014, 7:14 PM   #2
StephanieS
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Greetings,

It appears you have translators that can with some planning provide you the "big 5." Also, without details of your old antenna and it's design it's hard to tell if the antenna is past its prime or that due to the changing nature of broadcast signals that it is no longer the proper application.

The translators provide the following programming:
K07QC-D: CBS and FOX
K27KP-D: ABC, Telemundo, CW
K46MR-D: ABC (details sketchy on this translator's programming)
K13QE-D: PBS
K51HF: NBC (Analog)

There are multiple headings to contend with. Also, these translators are all between 1000 and 10 watts, so an obstruction free path is essential to reception success.

If I were installing I would focus on real channels 7, 27, 13 and 51. You'll notice there are two broadcast bands to contend with: high-VHF and UHF which means in this case a two antenna system. Due to the the moderate/moderate low signal strengths the first antenna would be a UHF design Antennas Direct DB8e. This antenna features the ability to swivel each panel to a unique heading. In your situation, I would focus one panel to magnetic heading 143 (ABC, Telemundo, CW). The second panel I would aim to magnetic heading 82 (NBC analog). The second antenna would be a high-VHF design Antennacraft Y5713. Orientate antenna to magnetic heading 86 (CBS, PBS, FOX)


The installation would look like this except for the Y5713 would be about 4' below the DB8e:


The Yagi type antenna has its place, however that antenna design tends to be very narrow beamed. The translation is that if you are working with several different directions, you may not see all the signals you want and thus may need something more adaptable, which enter the DB8e.

If you are running 70' of coax a preamp may not be needed. Instead, I'd opt for a Antenna's Direct EU385CF signal combiner which mounts on your mast and combines a VHF only and a UHF only antenna into one coax coming into your home. If running to one TV and one stereo, a regular splitter ought to be fine.

Note: This set up does not require a rotor. This is a bolted down configuration.

Cheers.

Last edited by StephanieS; 15-Dec-2014 at 7:34 PM.
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Old 17-Dec-2014, 10:23 PM   #3
SignalyDisabled
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Wow, Thanx. Need a bit of Clarification

StephanieS thank-you for your prompt and thorough reply.
Just a couple of questions. Your recommendation for the orientation of the VHF antenna is 86º for the CBS et.al. translator, while my favorite FM station translator is at 143º according to my FM profile. (My understanding is that FM is in the mid-VHF range) Will I be able to tweak the orientation of the antenna to get good reception from both or do I need to throw some more money at this. Secondly, you recommend a 4' spread between the 2 antenna. With a 7 ft mast, this puts the lower antenna pretty close to the roof. Why the spread and can I cheat it somewhat, or do I need to lower the roof? Does it matter which antenna is on top?

Cheers and Happy Holidays: SD
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Old 18-Dec-2014, 1:38 AM   #4
ADTech
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Quote:
My understanding is that FM is in the mid-VHF range)
Actually, it's immediately adjacent to channel 6. Had the FM band been used for 6 MHz-wide TV channels and had the channel numbers run continuously, it would have occupied channels 7, 8, 9, and part of 10. Our current channel 7 would have actually been numbered around 19 or 20. There's an 86 MHz gap between channel 6 & channel 7, enough spectrum for 16 TV channels. Of course, that chunk of frequencies found other uses including FM radio, aircraft, and a number of other services.
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Old 18-Dec-2014, 6:38 AM   #5
StephanieS
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Glad to help.

As ADTech points out, the Y5713 isn't really designed for the 88 - 108 mhz band. Older and some modern low-VHF/high-VHF/UHF models are also marketed for FM reception due to support for channel 6, which the Y5713 isn't designed for. Thus, FM improvement while perhaps slight with a Y5713 there may be better options.

You can split a DB8e/Y5713 feed to your stereo and test if FM reception is adequate to magnetic 86 before considering any additional options.

I would prioritize the Y5713 on the high-VHF TV signals as when you start pointing away from the CBS/FOX and PBS translators, you run the risk of losing parts of their signal. With your PBS especially on real channel 13, you need to give the Y5713 the best chance for successful reception as it is very low power. Pointing away from these signals you may find digital breakup may start happening. In short, with signals of this strength, give your antenna the best opportunity at reception by pointing dead on, or nearly dead on at the desired signal.

If your FM reception with the Y5713 orientated to magnetic isn't as desired. I would add a FM specific antenna in a Antennacraft FM6. This antenna is purpose built for the 88 - 108mhz band. This will be advantageous because it frees up your TV antennas to be TV antennas without making them work with signals they weren't designed for, it it eliminates the need to split the coax down to the TV and your FM reception will likely improve compared to patching in to the high-VHF and UHF band antennas. (unless you want to add multiple TVs)

I realize I've just suggested you add a 3rd antenna. If you had a single heading for your signals and you could use an all-band (low-VHF/high-vhf/UHF) model I'd suggest it. Here though, with your headings and lower signal strengths and lack of low-VHF - it's not a good fit for you. You could mount the FM antenna elsewhere on the roof.

On your 7' mast, you can shave the spacing down to 3' between the DB8e and the Y5713. The reason for the spacing is that if you get both antennas too close to each other they begin to disrupt each other with the result being a loss in performance.

Hardware stores sell a 10' chain link fence pole that doubles nicely as a antenna mast.

The digital switchover and phasing out of many low-VHF (channels 2-6) signals has left many folks with antennas that are no longer the best fit for their reception needs. Updating to the modern reality sometimes is a pain.

Best of luck.





Quote:
Originally Posted by SignalyDisabled View Post
StephanieS thank-you for your prompt and thorough reply.
Just a couple of questions. Your recommendation for the orientation of the VHF antenna is 86º for the CBS et.al. translator, while my favorite FM station translator is at 143º according to my FM profile. (My understanding is that FM is in the mid-VHF range) Will I be able to tweak the orientation of the antenna to get good reception from both or do I need to throw some more money at this. Secondly, you recommend a 4' spread between the 2 antenna. With a 7 ft mast, this puts the lower antenna pretty close to the roof. Why the spread and can I cheat it somewhat, or do I need to lower the roof? Does it matter which antenna is on top?

Cheers and Happy Holidays: SD
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