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Old 17-Feb-2015, 3:19 PM   #1
CAchief
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Two Antenna Setup Help

Hello all,

Thank you for reading the post...I have spent the last couple of months researching, and attempting to install a two antenna system. I have tried three different antennas (1, 2, 3) and had the most success with the third, Eagle Aspen one. Pleasant surprise given the price!

This is a link to my report. I have two stations (NBC & CW) north of my house. Depending on which way the antenna was pointing, I was able to get KSBY and CW (north) and CBS, Fox, few spanish stations facing south. I utilized the map feature of TVFOOL to point the antenna to towers. Additionally, I bought the RCA Preamplifier and was able to pick up ABC. The issue I am having is combining the antennas. I used two antennas (the Eagle Aspen UHF and Wineguard UHF/VHF). When I use the preamplifier, I cannot get NBC and CW while I can get the south facing stations. I have the FM Trap on and have tried utilizing different ports of the preamplifier. I don't think it's an antenna spacing issue as I cannot get NBC/CW using only one antenna (Eagle Aspen or Wineguard) + preamplifier. Coax cable was identical length.

Any help would be appreciated. I was also wondering if I can use two Eagle Aspen UHF antennas to get all of the stations.
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Old 17-Feb-2015, 6:43 PM   #2
timgr
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You should not combine two antennas on the same band naively. The signals won't just add. What you get will depend on the amplitude, phase and noise of each of the antennas when you mix them together. No guarantee that the signals will add constructively, and your noise level could be higher than with either antenna by itself.

If you want to have two antennas pointed in different directions, the simplest solution is an A/B switch for the antennas. Just switch to the antenna you want to watch the channel that is best from that antenna. http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=pvab95

The RCA preamp is not meant to combine two UHF antennas. It is meant to combine a VHF antenna with a UHF antenna. If you plug the Eagle-Aspen into the UHF port, you will only get UHF from the Eagle-Aspen. If you plug the Winegard into the VHF port, you will only get VHF from the Winegard.
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Old 17-Feb-2015, 7:26 PM   #3
Jake V
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If this were my TV Fool Report I would probably experiment with an Antennas Direct DB08e with the reflector removed. Aim it at roughly 140 degrees on a compass to get the SE signals and the NW signals off the back.

I'd likely pair it with a Y10713 for VHF.
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Old 22-Feb-2015, 2:54 AM   #4
fshagan
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I have an ABC affiliate north west of me in Santa Barbara on real channel 27 while the Los Angeles stations are 65 miles to the east, about 160 degrees separation between the two. I had a hard time picking up the Santa Barbara stations with my AD Clearstream 4 antenna pointed towards the LA stations. Adding another antenna pointing toward Santa Barbara degraded the signal on several stations from Los Angeles.

I found a site that told how to build a directional yagi antenna tuned for a specific UHF channel (pdf file: http://www.mtmscientific.com/yagi.pdf). I built one tuned to channel 27 and, I guess because it doesn't pull in other signals very well, was able to combine it without degrading the Los Angeles stations.
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Old 22-Feb-2015, 5:10 PM   #5
CAchief
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Thanks for the response.

Was thinking about getting the switch Timgr recommended, but was curious about Jake's response as well.

If I were to get this antenna: http://www.amazon.com/Terrestrial-Di...as+Direct+DB8e I could theoretically get stations pointed in both directions?
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Old 22-Feb-2015, 5:14 PM   #6
Jake V
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CAchief: The answer to you question is very possibly. You won't know until you try.

I just noticed your TV Fool Report does not have a height associated with it. Please make another and post it, using the height at which you plan to place the antenna. Use the instructions found here: http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=14508
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Old 22-Feb-2015, 5:18 PM   #7
CAchief
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Here ya go: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...f1f09eae261b96
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Old 22-Feb-2015, 5:37 PM   #8
timgr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAchief View Post
Thanks for the response.

Was thinking about getting the switch Timgr recommended, but was curious about Jake's response as well.

If I were to get this antenna: http://www.amazon.com/Terrestrial-Di...as+Direct+DB8e I could theoretically get stations pointed in both directions?
As I understand it, you are asking about pointing each panel in a different direction? You can, but the sensitivity of each panel will be less than with both panels pointing the same direction. If you look at the Antennas Direct listing for the antenna, you will find a technical data sheet. https://www.antennasdirect.com/store...V-Antenna.html Reputable antenna companies will typically post specification sheets for their antennas, with some kind of sensitivity rating in dB at the target bandwidth, dimensions, and how narrow the focus of the antenna is.

Now, my intuition says taking the reflectors off and pointing the panels in two directions will work badly. So I'd think you'd want to try it with the panels pointed widely apart, or with the panels in-line and without the reflectors. Maybe ADTech will comment on this.

Last edited by timgr; 22-Feb-2015 at 5:40 PM.
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Old 22-Feb-2015, 6:45 PM   #9
Jake V
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My recommendation for UHF was the DB-8e with reflectors removed with both panels pointed in unison to 140 degrees on a compass, getting some of the stations at 325 off the back.

Others will comment.
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Old 26-Feb-2015, 5:42 AM   #10
CAchief
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Tried your advice today when the DB-8 Antenna came, Jake. Was getting all channels but most at only about 40-50% signal strength. I am going to try few different angels tomorrow to see what I can get.

I couldn't find the DB-8e on Amazon and seems kind of hard to come by. Was really hoping to get on Amazon for their return policy.
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Old 26-Feb-2015, 11:36 AM   #11
ADTech
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The DB8e has been out of stock for a little while and the supply has dried up. They should be available again very soon. Maybe today or tomorrow, definitely by the 1st of March.

Do not confuse the DB8 with the DB8e, they are very different antennas.

Quote:
or with the panels in-line and without the reflectors. Maybe ADTech will comment on this.
I'd suggest that as well. That way, you don't suffer the 6 dB loss incurred when the panels are not combining in phase. You'd only reduce reception by 2-3 dB sans reflectors.
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Last edited by ADTech; 26-Feb-2015 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 26-Feb-2015, 3:42 PM   #12
CAchief
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADTech View Post
The DB8e has been out of stock for a little while and the supply has dried up. They should be available again very soon. Maybe today or tomorrow, definitely by the 1st of March.

Do not confuse the DB8 with the DB8e, they are very different antennas.



I'd suggest that as well. That way, you don't suffer the 6 dB loss incurred when the panels are not combining in phase. You'd only reduce reception by 2-3 dB sans reflectors.
Thanks for the input/info. When you say reflectors removed, is that all of the reflectors or just some?
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Old 26-Feb-2015, 4:46 PM   #13
ADTech
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Remove all of the panels to make the antenna bidirectional. On a DB8 or DB8e, there are 4 of them. Keep the bowtie panels of the 8e aligned, otherwise, you're off the beaten path into "experimental" land and you'll be on your own as we can only guesstimate what might happen.
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Old 26-Feb-2015, 8:16 PM   #14
BigDaveyL
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Another thing, is you can combine 1-2 channels from a different antenna.

Tin Lee Electronics out of Toronto custom builds these. I think they run about $100
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Old 11-Mar-2015, 5:42 PM   #15
CAchief
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I believe the DB8e is arriving today, we'll see if it works!


Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaveyL View Post
Another thing, is you can combine 1-2 channels from a different antenna.

Tin Lee Electronics out of Toronto custom builds these. I think they run about $100
That would be ideal as my current antenna picks up the two south facing stations (NBC/CW) adequately.
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Old 12-Mar-2015, 6:09 AM   #16
CAchief
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Got the antenna today. Was curious how you guys would suggest attaching the bow tie elements to the cross bar directly. It looks like the antenna was designed to attach to the crossbar with the reflectors attaching to the bow ties.

Thanks.
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Old 12-Mar-2015, 10:59 AM   #17
ADTech
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You must assemble it as per the directions except as noted below. The bowties cannot be attached to the crossbar directly without screwing up the antenna.

If you're trying to remove the reflector panels for bi-directional operation, drill out the rivets, remove the screens, then assemble. To reattach, if necessary, use standard #10 hardware.
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Old 13-Mar-2015, 5:40 AM   #18
CAchief
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADTech View Post
If you're trying to remove the reflector panels for bi-directional operation, drill out the rivets, remove the screens, then assemble. To reattach, if necessary, use standard #10 hardware.
A little worried to drill out the rivets in case i have to return it. Can I connect it with zip ties just to see if it work? Set it up per the instructions this morning and was able to pull in all stations I wanted, minus ABC, but only at about 50% signal strength. Added a little more height and lost FOX/CBS but added ABC. This process can be very frustrating! I think I've broken nearly all the tiles on my roof at install area
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