Which Pre-Amp to use? - Page 2

estefan2020 · 25-Sep-2013, 12:28 AM

you may be interested in a duplexer that divides the uhf and vhf ebay has a few $30-50 mainly for hams but can be used to direct uhf and vhf to separate cables.

Quote:

Originally Posted by skatingrocker17

I have the HD Stacker TV antenna currently mounted about 30 feet about the ground on my roof. I also have a rotor. Right now, I'm using the Winegard 8275 pre-amp connected to 1 TV and 2 FM radio Tuners. (have DirecTV so not super concerned about TV signals).

Some of the stations I like to listen to (Detroit 101.1 WRIF and Windsor 88.7 CIMX) are between 70-80 miles away. They almost always come in great in my car and 50% of the time come in good at my house.

I have a Sony F1HD FM radio tuner and always hows 3 bars of signal when using the pre-amp, even if it's fuzzy. Could the close FM stations be overloading the signals that are 70-80 miles away? I Winegard 8275 has 29dB of VHF gain which may be two much. Although, the signal is split 3 times and the run to the radio is the garage is about 100' of RG6.

I have no problem receiving my local Toledo TV stations. Should I move to a pre-amp with less gain such as the 8700?

Thanks

skatingrocker17 · 26-Sep-2013, 2:23 AM

Could a pre-amp help with an analog FM station that occasionally fades?

estefan2020 · 26-Sep-2013, 3:05 AM

choose a LNA low noise amplifier, usually 1db or less

An amplifier by its definition creates noise, Read on discrete transistor amplifiers, but thats not all, An amplifier will amplify signal, as well as general noise in the environment + its own noise it makes.

If at all possible use an antenna with gain over a standard quarter wave antenna. Use a low noise amp/pre-amp at the antenna mast, only if you have +50ft of coax transmission line. quad rg-6 is not bad, RG-11/ is better, and is better than the standard dual shielding rg-6, but there are even better cable, but will drive the cost up considerably and not available in traditional stores, but is used in new home construction. each 100ft of coax will reduce your signal, This is why you have an antenna mounted low noise amplifier, to compensate for cable losses.

amplifying the signal at the tv/ fm tuner will will amplify an already degraded signal. Each splitter will reduce the signal, so a 3 way splitter will add insertion loss plus have 0.33 1/3 of the signal. Using the correct duplexer which has a hi pass filter for uhf tv , and a low pass filter for fm radio, then split the fm for the 2 fm receivers having 0.5 or 1/2 if the signal, More signal for the receivers, instead of using the traditional 3 way splitter.

You could try with a low noise amplifier at the antenna, and go from there. and swap the 3 way with a duplexer and a 2way splitter, if the signal level is not to your liking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaxial_cable great read explaines cable selections.

Its easy to loose signal, but ones its lost, the quality will suffer if amplified after the fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by skatingrocker17

Could a pre-amp help with an analog FM station that occasionally fades?

skatingrocker17 · 26-Sep-2013, 3:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estefan2020

choose a LNA low noise amplifier, usually 1db or less

An amplifier by its definition creates noise, Read on discrete transistor amplifiers, but thats not all, An amplifier will amplify signal, as well as general noise in the environment + its own noise it makes.

If at all possible use an antenna with gain over a standard quarter wave antenna. Use a low noise amp/pre-amp at the antenna mast, only if you have +50ft of coax transmission line. quad rg-6 is not bad, RG-11/ is better, and is better than the standard dual shielding rg-6, but there are even better cable, but will drive the cost up considerably and not available in traditional stores, but is used in new home construction. each 100ft of coax will reduce your signal, This is why you have an antenna mounted low noise amplifier, to compensate for cable losses.

amplifying the signal at the tv/ fm tuner will will amplify an already degraded signal. Each splitter will reduce the signal, so a 3 way splitter will add insertion loss plus have 0.33 1/3 of the signal. Using the correct duplexer which has a hi pass filter for uhf tv , and a low pass filter for fm radio, then split the fm for the 2 fm receivers having 0.5 or 1/2 if the signal, More signal for the receivers, instead of using the traditional 3 way splitter.

You could try with a low noise amplifier at the antenna, and go from there. and swap the 3 way with a duplexer and a 2way splitter, if the signal level is not to your liking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaxial_cable great read explaines cable selections.

Its easy to loose signal, but ones its lost, the quality will suffer if amplified after the fact.

Right now I just have a 50 foot run of RG6 coax to the radio.

In the next few days, I will have 25 feet of quad sheild RG6 from the antenna to a Channel Master 3414 distribution amplifier. The noise rating on the distribution amps seem to be VERY similar to the pre-amps. Usually a little under 3db.

No static at all · 26-Sep-2013, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skatingrocker17

Could a pre-amp help with an analog FM station that occasionally fades?

Doubtful. Fading is the result of signal bounce off of aircraft or various changes in the atmosphere that you have no control over.

What station(s) are you experiencing fading?

skatingrocker17 · 27-Sep-2013, 1:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No static at all

Doubtful. Fading is the result of signal bounce off of aircraft or various changes in the atmosphere that you have no control over.

What station(s) are you experiencing fading?

101.1 WRIF occasionally fades, sometimes get's fuzzy. Maybe it's just the way the antenna is pointed. 88.7 CIMX seems to come in pretty consistently with RDS.

No static at all · 27-Sep-2013, 1:58 AM

Too bad Winegard discontinued the 6055 antenna. That would have helped you somewhat, but WRIF would likely not be completely stable at close to 100 miles out with any antenna. CIMX is pushing 100,000 watts & is about 20 miles closer to you.

Does your Sony now far exceed your car radio's performance since you installed the FM6 antenna?

skatingrocker17 · 27-Sep-2013, 2:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No static at all

Too bad Winegard discontinued the 6055 antenna. That would have helped you somewhat, but WRIF would likely not be completely stable at close to 100 miles out with any antenna. CIMX is pushing 100,000 watts & is about 20 miles closer to you.

Does your Sony now far exceed your car radio's performance since you installed the FM6 antenna?

I could of bought that instead. And yes it's much better, but also directional. I proabably like CIMX more, but it would be nice to have WRIF 100% of the time since I listen to their morning show Dave and Chuck the freak. It comes in fine going North on I-75 though on my way to school so it works out OK.

skatingrocker17 · 29-Sep-2013, 1:08 AM

Is there anything BETTER than the FM6 out there that's available?

No static at all · 29-Sep-2013, 2:18 AM

Unfortunately you are SOL with a better FM antenna unless you can find a used one. All the Winegard 6055's seem to have disappeared.

Not sure how much a modified FM6 will help you, but it's easy enough to do. The modification will improve the front to back ratio, but doesn't add any forward gain so it's hard to say how much improvement you will actually see.

Are you having trouble at certain times, or all the time? The atmosphere is still quite active with tropospheric activity, but will start simmering down as cooler weather moves in. The tropo activity can really wreak havoc on normally decent reception when signals from 200+ miles on the same frequency override them.

No static at all · 29-Sep-2013, 2:37 AM

Centronics is showing the 6055 as being in stock. You may want to see if they still really have any left.

skatingrocker17 · 29-Sep-2013, 2:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No static at all

Centronics is showing the 6055 as being in stock. You may want to see if they still really have any left.

So a dedicated FM antenna would still be the best way to go? I can get any kind of antenna with FM being the highest priority, I might just take the HD stacker down. I can get all my Toledo stations UHF and VHF with the FM6 with no issues at all.

No static at all · 29-Sep-2013, 2:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skatingrocker17

So a dedicated FM antenna would still be the best way to go?

Absolutely. I had one of the best VHF-FM antenna years ago & it didn't really work any better than the FM6.

I actually had the even larger 1110(16 feet long), but could't find a pic.

skatingrocker17 · 29-Sep-2013, 4:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No static at all

Absolutely. I had one of the best VHF-FM antenna years ago & it didn't really work any better than the FM6.

I actually had the even larger 1110(16 feet long), but could't find a pic.

I bought the 6055 to mess around with. I can't return the FM6 since I threw the box away. I found it strange that I got all the TV channels that I get with the HD Stacker since the FM6 is only for low VHF. The signal strength was just as strong too.

I have never heard of Centronics so hopefully the antenna actually comes.