Attic or Not

[ADTech]

If you have a BestBuy local to you, you could always try the other 2 first since they have a good return policy.

Be cautious, BB has only a 14-15 day return window unless you've paid for one of their upgraded "memberships". Walmart has the C2V and allows a 90 day return. We, of course, if ordering directly from us, also offer a 90 day return window.

[shoman94]

Originally Posted by ADTech

Be cautious, BB has only a 14-15 day return window unless you've paid for one of their upgraded "memberships". Walmart has the C2V and allows a 90 day return. We, of course, if ordering directly from us, also offer a 90 day return window.

Yes you are correct.... it is a longer window. Amazon has a good policy also. Point is if local antenna are available they can be tried and easily returned within the return policy. It doesn't take more then a day to know if an antenna is going to work well enough.

[ADTech]

Yeah, I know, but keep in mind that I deal (every week) with customers who let time slip away and come to us when they find that they've exceed their retailer's return period.

Just keep an eye out for those return windows.

[shoman94]

Originally Posted by ADTech

Yeah, I know, but keep in mind that I deal (every week) with customers who let time slip away and come to us when they find that they've exceed their retailer's return period.

Just keep an eye out for those return windows.

Understood.... I appreciate all your input and help.

[rabbit73]

Originally Posted by shoman94

Don't you think that the channels are strong enough to pick up on the back side? I'm picking up channels half his channels strengths on the backside of my C4V. Using A/B and multiple tuners just seem over the top for his report IMO.

I have no idea how strong the signals are in his attic. The signal loss in an attic can vary all over the place. That is why I told him to make a temporary test in the attic.

Frustrated Cable Cutter asked for a conservative estimate to have a good chance for 4.1, and that's what I gave him.

Originally Posted by Frustrated Cable Cutter

Channel 4.x has local news for the area where I work. If I can't get it (even with heroic measures) it's not a show stopper.

Just to make sure I'm clear on your recommendations, which antenna is the most conservative (has the best chance of being successful).

[Frustrated Cable Cutter]

Originally Posted by rabbit73

I have no idea how strong the signals are in his attic. The signal loss in an attic can vary all over the place. That is why I told him to make a temporary test in the attic.

Frustrated Cable Cutter asked for a conservative estimate to have a good chance for 4.1, and that's what I gave him.

Thanks gents, I really appreciate your expertise. I am going to purchase the c4v and try it in the attic. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I'll just string the coax through the house. I'll let y'all know how it turns out.

[rabbit73]

Please be aware that the C4V has a different horizontal beamwidth pattern than the C2V. It might be a little more difficult to find an aim for the C4V that will cover 327 to 22 degrees.

The C2V claims 70 degrees
https://www.antennasdirect.com/clear...ntalplane.html

The C4V has a more narrow main lobe but 2 secondary lobes to make it a little wider
https://www.antennasdirect.com/cmss_...-sellsheet.pdf
page one shows a narrower (43) main lobe, but page 2 claims wide (70) coverage

The peculiar pattern with the two notches (nulls) that changes with frequency is the result of horizontal stacking. This pattern that has nulls is used in the Two-Antenna Trick on hdtvprimer.com with the phase reversed.

You can also see it in the pattern of the DB8e, which is two 4-bay antennas side-by-side.
https://www.antennasdirect.com/cmss_files/attachmentlibrary/Technical%20Data%20PDF's/DB8E-TDS.pdf

[ADTech]

On UHF, the HPBW of the C4 is ~43° on channel 14 and ~31° on channel 51.

The addition of the VHF module has no known discernible effect on the UHF patterns.

[rabbit73]

Thank you for confirming my concern about the UHF beamwidth he needs when his antenna is aimed North.

[shoman94]

The point of this antenna is to point south towards the virtual 4.1 channel and the backside to pick up the northerly stations. For reference I have mine easily picking up a 55 degree spread (332degrees to 28degrees) and stations half the strength he has being picked up on the backside. Even if it has to be installed on the roof.... it's better then putting up 2 antennas with a tinlee filter or A/B switch or two tuners. IMO there is nothing conservative about that.
If he has no desire to pick up Virtual 4.1 then I'd surely say use the C2V pointed to the north.

[rabbit73]

shoman94:

Frustrated Cable Cutter presented his problem to us.

Stereocraig, rickbb. and Tim gave their opinions.

ADTech gave his opinion.

I gave my opinion.

You gave your opinion.

It's Frustrated Cable Cutter's antenna and his money. He gets to decide how he wants to do it.

I have no desire to force my opinion on anyone.

Every reception problem is unique. What works for you might not be the best solution for someone else.

[shoman94]

Originally Posted by rabbit73

Frustrated Cable Cutter presented his problem to us.

ADTech gave his opinion.

I gave my opinion.

You gave your opinion.

It's Frustrated Cable Cutter's antenna and his money. He gets to decide how he wants to do it.

I have no desire to force my opinion on anyone.

I'm not either but I'm trying to use this as a learning opportunity from experts for myself. I'm trying to decipher what leads to the recommendations you guys make vs what I have experienced in my own setup. I don't have the knowledge or background you guys have and I've been stating why I think certain things will work. Not having the "why's" bugs me I guess. lol

The point was not to drive anything down anyone's throat. Sorry if it came across that way.

[Frustrated Cable Cutter]

Originally Posted by rabbit73

Please be aware that the C4V has a different horizontal beamwidth pattern than the C2V. It might be a little more difficult to find an aim for the C4V that will cover 327 to 22 degrees.

The C2V claims 70 degrees
https://www.antennasdirect.com/clear...ntalplane.html

The C4V has a more narrow main lobe but 2 secondary lobes to make it a little wider
https://www.antennasdirect.com/cmss_...-sellsheet.pdf
page one shows a narrower (43) main lobe, but page 2 claims wide (70) coverage

The peculiar pattern with the two notches (nulls) that changes with frequency is the result of horizontal stacking. This pattern that has nulls is used in the Two-Antenna Trick on hdtvprimer.com with the phase reversed.

You can also see it in the pattern of the DB8e, which is two 4-bay antennas side-by-side.
https://www.antennasdirect.com/cmss_files/attachmentlibrary/Technical%20Data%20PDF's/DB8E-TDS.pdf

Thanks so much for your help rabbit73, being a layman I was affected by the advertising. I am definitely going to take your advice and get the c2v, it's cheaper too! I really have much to learn. Thanks again.

[shoman94]

Originally Posted by Frustrated Cable Cutter

Thanks so much for your help rabbit73, being a layman I was affected by the advertising. I am definitely going to take your advice and get the c2v, it's cheaper too! I really have much to learn. Thanks again.

Advertising? lol I'm just giving my personal experience because I've own both.

[Frustrated Cable Cutter]

Originally Posted by shoman94

Advertising? lol I'm just giving my personal experience because I've own both.

I wasn't alluding to anything you've said shoman. I appreciate your input. I was talking about the mileage claims on Amazon when they advertise the antenna's capabilities . I just figured further is better, apparently not always the case.

[shoman94]

Originally Posted by Frustrated Cable Cutter

I wasn't alluding to anything you've said shoman. I appreciate your input. I was talking about the mileage claims on Amazon when they advertise the antenna's capabilities . I just figured further is better, apparently not always the case.

Thank you.

Yea it's not all about distance. The C2v is a good choice of you are not going after that distant channel you mentioned. Good luck and let us know how you make out.

[Frustrated Cable Cutter]

Just wanted to offer a hardy thanks for all the help that I received on my antenna selection, I have the Clearstream 2V permanently mounted in my attic and am enjoying OTA HDTV with stellar results. I am currently picking up 25 channels with the majority over 50% signal strength. The lone VHF channel is over 90%. I plan to split the feed to 2 TV's, any recommendations as to which hardware I should use? I am also considering adding the cm7778, any downside to that?

[rabbit73]

That sounds good.

Since I don't know the signal loss in the attic, what TV you are using, how low the per cent reading can go and still have good reception, and how long the coax lines are to the two TVs, you will need to do some testing.

You have several alternatives. First try a 2-way splitter. If the signals get too weak after splitting, add a Channel Master 3410 before the splitter. It is also possible to use the 3410 as a preamp near the antenna, feeding it power from down below with a PCT-MPI-1G power inserter. Split after the power inserter.

The other alternative is to try a 2-way splitter and if the signals are too weak after splitting, add a CM7778 or Antennas Direct Juice preamp near the antenna and split after the power inserter down below. The CM7778 has an FM filter. The Juice does not, but it does have a 4G LTE filter to reject cellular interference that is moving into frequencies just above channel 51. You can add an FM filter to the Juice, but it probably will not be necessary after looking at your FM signal report.
http://www.fmfool.com/modeling/tmp/d...4/Radar-FM.png

[rabbit73]

From PM by Frustrated Cable Cutter
QUOTE
Hey Rabbit73, what has been your experience with the juice pre amp? I added one to my set up in order to enhance the signal prior to adding a splitter and got terrible results. I went from receiving 25 channels without the amp to only 6 with it. The results were the same whether the power inserter was plugged in or not, leading me to believe that something was wrong with the pre amp. I returned it to AD and asked them to bench test it and let me know the results, but they haven't gotten back to me yet.
END QUOTE

I'm sorry to hear that you are having trouble. I don't have any personal experience with the Juice, but I have used many other preamps. I suspect partial overload of the tuner that creates IMD (Intermodulation Distortion) spurious signals that can damage your weaker signals.

Which 6 were you still receiving?

I have attached your question to your previous thread so that ADTech can have a chance to help you.

Please give us the details of what is connected to what in your test setup so that we will have a better chance of helping you. Like, where was the splitter located?

[shoman94]

Originally Posted by rabbit73

From PM by Frustrated Cable Cutter
QUOTE
Hey Rabbit73, what has been your experience with the juice pre amp? I added one to my set up in order to enhance the signal prior to adding a splitter and got terrible results. I went from receiving 25 channels without the amp to only 6 with it. The results were the same whether the power inserter was plugged in or not, leading me to believe that something was wrong with the pre amp. I returned it to AD and asked them to bench test it and let me know the results, but they haven't gotten back to me yet.
END QUOTE

I'm sorry to hear that you are having trouble. I don't have any personal experience with the Juice, but I have used many other preamps. I suspect partial overload of the tuner that creates IMD (Intermodulation Distortion) spurious signals that can damage your weaker signals.

Which 6 were you still receiving?

I have attached your question to your previous thread so that ADTech can have a chance to help you.

Please give us the details of what is connected to what in your test setup so that we will have a better chance of helping you.

Doesn't that sound like the power inserter could be bad?

I use a juice and it works great...