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Old 27-Aug-2012, 2:38 PM   #1
Spyder
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Initial Set Up Near Waterloo, Ontario

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e77978bb01d45a

INFO SO FAR. I HAVE 8 BAY ON ROOF MOUNTED 30 FT UP ON THE WEEKEND.
I AM PULLING IN 1-2 CHANNELS WITH BOOSTER IN BASEMENT BEFORE GOING INTO TV.
DISCONNECTING THE BOOSTER, I CAN GET 3 CHANNELS WITH BETTER SIGNAL STRENGTH.
I AM CURRENTLY GETTING CTV, TVO AND CITY TV. ALL ARE COMING IN FANTASTIC.
I DON'T CARE FOR TVO, BUT AM REALLY LOOKING TO PULL IN CBC AND GLOBAL BEFORE FOOTBALL AND HOCKEY SEASON GET INTO FULL SWING. I AM CURRENTLY USING THE DIRECTIONS OF 83 AND 133 FROM TRUE NORTH.
ANY SUGGESTIONS WHY I GET MORE CHANNELS WITHOUT THE BOOSTER, AS WELL AS ANY ASSISTANCE GETTING THE TWO CHANNELS I WOULD LIKE TO RECEIVE, WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED.
PLEASE CONTACT ME IF MORE INFORMATION IS REQUIRED.

Last edited by Spyder; 27-Aug-2012 at 7:17 PM.
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Old 27-Aug-2012, 4:58 PM   #2
teleview
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Tv Reception.

What is the make and model number of the 8 bay UHF antenna??

What is the make and model number of the booster/amplifier??

How many Tv's are/will be connected??

Last edited by GroundUrMast; 20-Dec-2013 at 5:51 AM. Reason: Deleting 'boiler plate' spam style content
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Old 28-Aug-2012, 12:50 AM   #3
Spyder
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Kross GY-TVA 005 antenna anD RCA 25 db video system signal amplifier. One tv is connected. 100 ft wire.
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Old 28-Aug-2012, 7:40 AM   #4
teleview
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Tv Reception.

Ok this one took a couple of hours of research.

The transmitters are Very Widely Spaced and are not reception friendly combinations of VHF channels and UHF channels.

CBLT-DT REAL Digital channel 20 , virtual number (5.1) is 68.8 miles to the east in Toronto on the CN Tower. The reception map at the CBC web site shows that your location is on the extreme fringe of reception.

The CBC does have a closer Analog Tv Transmitter (CBLN-TV-1 , UHF channel 29) at 133 degree magnetic compass direction , the same location as CIII digital channel 6 GTN and CICO digital channel 28 TVO.

http://cbc.radio-canada.ca/_files/cb...015-tve-on.pdf.

http://cbc.ca

Looks to me like the simplest way to do this is not go for the CBC digital channel 20 at 84 degree magnetic compass direction at the CN Tower.
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This is antenna # 1.

My recommendation is install a Winegard HD7000R UHF/VHF antenna with No preamplifier , aimed at about 114 degree magnetic compass direction for the reception of ,

CHCH Digital VHF channel 11 , Independent Tv station.

CIII Digital VHF channel 6 , GTN.

CICO digital UHF channel 28 , TVO.

CKCO Digital VHF channel 13 , CTV.

CBLN-TV-1 Analog UHF channel 29 , CBC.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

___________________________________________________________________

This is antenna # 2.

Install a Winegard HD7697P antenna with a Antennas Direct CPA-19 preamp , aimed at about 232 degree magnetic compass direction for the reception of ,

CITY digital UHF channel 31 , CityTv.

CFPL Digital VHF channel 10 , CTV TWO.

CICO Digital UHF channel 18 , TVO.

CITS Digital UHF channel 14 , Religion.

CJMT Digital UHF channel 20 , OMNI.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

___________________________________________________

Here are some places to buy antennas and etc. , http://www.saveandreplay.com , http://www.trentondistributors.com , http://www.canadapost.ca/shopper , http://www.amazon.ca , http://www.solidsignal.com , http://www.antennasdirect.com , http://www.winegarddirect.com , http://www.amazon.com.

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Old 28-Aug-2012, 7:56 AM   #5
teleview
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Tv Reception.

Antenna #1 and antenna #2 Will Not be combined together on to one coax.

Antenna #1 and antenna #2 are Separate antenna systems all the the way to the Tv location where the 2 separate antenna system coaxes are connected to a Remote control A/B antenna coax switch , http://www.mcmelectronics.com , #32-4425.

Saveandreplay has the same Remote control A/B antenna coax switch.
__________________________________

As a 'test' of reception the HD7697P antenna can be aimed at the CBC Digital UHF channel 20 transmitter at 86 degree magnetic compass direction to test reception.

Last edited by GroundUrMast; 20-Dec-2013 at 5:52 AM. Reason: Deleting 'boiler plate' spam style content
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Old 28-Aug-2012, 2:10 PM   #6
Spyder
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Wow. Wasn't expecting a response quite like that. Thank you very much. Will keep you updated as to progress as i move forward. This is a fantastic resource and am very glad i was directed to this site.
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Old 20-Dec-2013, 2:38 AM   #7
radyio
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A year later, analog is gone.

Greetings,

Spyderman, I'd love to hear about your experience with CBC reception in Waterloo.

Teleview, I'd highly value your opinion too. How would your advice change now that CBC analog is off the air?

The CBC analog transmitter in Kitchener was scheduled for decommission on July 31, 2012, without a planned digital replacement. This leaves the only the CBLT-DT transmitter on the CN Tower to service the Waterloo area, and our city is (still) in the extreme fringe area.

So, what options are available, and which have been tried for CBC reception in Waterloo?

At my location, (TV Fool Signal Locator), a 35ft height leaves CBLT-DT with a noise margin of 5.1dB, as seen in the chart, while a 30ft height yields -0.1dB (as seen here). Can 5ft make that dramatic of a difference? Our house is just below the top of a gentle hill, with the hill-top between us and CN Tower, perhaps we are 20ft or so lower altitude than the hilltop.

Since a mast/tower taller than ~20ft mounted on the rooftop is not a practical option here, the only other variable is the antenna itself. Would a light consumer 4-bay or 8-bay antenna do the trick, or perhaps a yagi tuned to ch 20 would be light enough for such a tall, but lightweight tower? Something more serious like the CM 3671 probably requires a much more substantial 20ft tower.

Which way would you go with antennas? Or is there another way to get CBC TV without a cable subscription? Maybe streaming on Roku somehow?

Kind Regards.
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Old 20-Dec-2013, 8:46 AM   #8
teleview
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+=>
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radyio:

Yes those low hills will make that much difference.

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The following looks complicated , it is not complicated , what it is , is installing 1 antenna and reaching out all the receivable networks , without installing a second antenna or a antenna rotator.

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CKCO-DT Real VHF high band channel 13 , CTV , Is Very Strong Signal Strength , and will be received with any antenna aimed in any direction.

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At the 35 foot antenna height.

For reception of Digital Broadcast Tv's stations/channels at , 88 degree magnetic compass direction.

CBLT-DT Real UHF channel 20 , CBC.

CICA-DT Real UHF channel 19 , TVO.

CBLFT-D Real UHF channel 25 , French Tv.

And reach out for reception of very weak signal strength Digital Tv stations

CIII-DT Real UHF channel 41 , GTN. Is very weak signal strength.

CJMT-DT Real UHF channel 40 , OMNI 2. Is very weak signal strength.

CITY-DT Real UHF channel 44 , CITY Tv. Is very weak signal strength.

CFMT-DT Real UHF channel 47 , OMNI. Is very weak signal strength.

And at 126 degree magnetic compass direction.

CITS-DT Real UHF channel , 36 , Religion.

CHCH-DT Real UHF channel , 15 , IND.
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I recommend a , Antennas Direct , DB8e antenna , at a starting antenna aim direction , aim the DB8e at about 106 degree magnetic compass direction , a in between aim direction , 88 and 126 magnetic compass direction.
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Install a Channel Master CM7778 preamplifier.

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Recommend Test reception with only 1 Tv connected. No splitters.

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At 177 degree magnetic compass direction.

CIII-DT Real UHF channel 17 , GTN.

CICO-DT Real UHF channel 28 TVO.

Are stronger signal strength and will most likely be received by the DB8e antenna.

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That leaves , CITY-DT Real UHF channel 31 , at 213 degree magnetic compass direction

--> IF <-- CITY-DT Real UHF channel 44 , is received then no requirement to receive CITY-DT Real UHF channel 31 , that will require a second antenna.

Any way , install the DB8e Up High and see how the reception is.

Here are some above the roof antenna mounts.

http://www.ronard.com/ychim.html.
Measure around the chimney and use a , ronard(2212) , ronard(2218) , ronard(2224) .

http://www.ronard.com/Tripods%200703/4712.html.
Use the , 4712-50-10 tripod , it accepts small diameter mast pipe and larger diameter mast pipe up to 2.2 inches.

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http://www.saveandreplay.com.

http://www.trentondistributors.com.

http://www.ronard.com.

Last edited by teleview; 30-Dec-2013 at 9:04 AM. Reason: Clarify information and typos.
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Old 20-Dec-2013, 5:12 PM   #9
teleview
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And to answer your next question.

Yes you can install the antenna down lower and Test reception.

Use a 5 foot tripod antenna mount such as the , http://www.ronard.com/909911.html.

Just set it on the roof , not bolted to the roof.

Or you can as an example you can , tape , the DB8e antenna to a chimney to Test reception.

Or some other creative way to get the DB8e up in the air to Test reception.
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Old 29-Dec-2013, 4:35 PM   #10
radyio
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Thank you very much for your feedback, teleview.

Based on your advice, I installed a temporary antenna at 30ft with 7778 amplifier, with 100ft of RG6 to the TV, and I receive the following channels at my location:

CBLT-DT Real UHF channel 20 , CBC.
CICA-DT Real UHF channel 19 , TVO. (also on ch 28 as CICO-DT)
CBLFT-D Real UHF channel 25 , French Tv.

Also coming in very strong:

CIII-DT on channel 6 and
CKCO-DT on channel 13

I found that channel 41 (CIII-DT from CN-tower) is at the limit of reception, ie, TV indicates lock, but there are lots of drop-outs (on the 30ft analysis this channel is estimated to have noise margin on -3.4dBi, and a power of -94.2dB). My antenna has ~ 14dBi gain on this channel, so my guess is that my actual NM figures on the ground are about 10dBi worse than indicated on the tvfool analysis. I found that I can move the antenna about 13deg in either direction away from 88deg (CN-Tower azimuth), before the TV set looses lock. This is probably some indicator of the available signal strength, though I don't know how to quantify it.

Instead of the db8e antenna, I bought the CM4228HD, because it has a gain 2dBi higher than the db8e at channel 20, which is my primary interest.

There is a feed-line modification that can be done to the CM4228HD that will improve reception of channels 35+ by 3dBi or more (thank you Ken Nist and Tom Ballister for your work), but there are no desirable channels that this mod would enable for me.

I do have a question about the pre-amp: why is the 7778 a better choice for me than the 7777 ?

We are surrounded by mature trees, and I suspect in the spring when foliage returns I will be forced to mount the antenna higher, or change to a stronger amplifier. Does foliage decrease the noise margin, or just the signal strength (power)? Will a 7777 overcome the effects of foliage if the 7778 cannot?

I've also tried pointing the antenna at 126deg, and got no signal from the stations in that direction.

All in all, I'm very happy with the results, being able to watch some hockey and the upcoming winter Olympics on CBC.

Thank you again for your feedback and advice,

Regards

Last edited by radyio; 29-Dec-2013 at 4:37 PM. Reason: Added length of RG6 run.
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Old 30-Dec-2013, 3:16 AM   #11
teleview
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I also recommended the DB8e because it has the 4 bay bowtie reception panels that be aimed independently.

With a starting aim direction of both panels aim at about 106 degree magnetic compass direction , the panels can be separately aimed more in the directions of the 2 groups of Tv transmitters at 88 degree magnetic compass direction and 126 degree magnetic compass direction.

It is Testing of reception , to get as many channels as possible.

Also both panels can be aimed at one or the other groups of Tv stations at 88 and 126 degrees.

It is a Testing of reception to get as many channels as possible.

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Digital Broadcast Tv Tuners can develop - Digital Glitches - that are not cleared out with simple channel scans.

To clear the tuner do a Double Rescan.

http://www.wchastv.com/DoubleReScanAlert.pdf.

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As to the idea that a more powerful amplifier will , 'power through the trees and tree leaves' , this will most likely not happen.

The CM7778 will most likely provide all the the signal amplification that is required.

Over amplifying usually causes problems.

However the best way to find out if a stronger amplifier will help or not is to install the CM7777 and see.

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The antennas job is to receive the signal , bigger antennas receive more signal , smaller antennas receive less signal.

For the most part , a amplifier can not make up for the short comings of a small antenna.

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Tvfool is showing that CIII-DT is transmitted on 3 separate channels.

VHF low band channel 6 , UHF band channels 17 and 41.

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Directional antennas receive the best in the forward direction.

Directional antennas have , Forward Beam Width , so as the antenna is turned , as you have found , the less the reception will be the further off the forward direction direction of the antenna.

Directional antennas will also receive to a lesser degree at back angles and back of the directional antenna.

The least amount of reception is directly on the sides of a directional antenna.

As a Test of reception , you can aim the side of the antenna at Tv stations and see what happens to reception.

As a Test of reception , you can aim the back of the antenna and back angles of the antenna at Tv stations and watch what happens to reception.

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As to Tv antennas modifications.

Tv antennas that receive a Wide Range of Tv channels , multipul channels.

Are a compromise design and must be a compromise design.

As to the modifications of Kin Nist and Tom Ballister , modifications of the CM4228HD to improve UHF reception of some UHF channels.

The modifications also Decrease the reception ability of the VHF high band channel 7 thru 13.

An unmodified CM4228HD antenna has modest reception ability of the VHF high band channels 7 thru 13 that is a little better then a simple dipole antenna.

Last edited by teleview; 30-Dec-2013 at 8:57 AM. Reason: Clarify information and typos.
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