Antenna selection for 60+ miles reception

[Tekcor1]

Good morning! After waiting patiently for three weeks my account was finally approved. Yay for that!

We have recently cut our cable and are using ROKU with Netflix and Hulu. I'm looking to add OTA so that I can get football games and local news. I'm primarily interested in getting ABC, NBC, CBS, and FOX. Im considering the Antennas Direct 91XG antenna with a gable mount on a 10' mast, which will put it approximately 25' in the air. Will this work for me?

I will be feeding to four tv's, and would like to tie into the existing Comcast coax that is run in the house. Will I need a booster or amplifier? There's currently an inline amp where the signal is split from 1 to 4 cables. Ant suggestions or help is greatly appreciated!

My TVfool report:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...d243a4f7579f72

[Flint Ridge]

It appears you may have some challenges.

You want the main networks.

CBS - 16 degrees and a strong UHF signal
FOX - 199 degrees & a weaker VHF Signal
NBC & ABC - 181 degrees & a weak UHF signals
Also a CBS @ 181 degrees, also weak UHF.

Hopefully others will be along to provide input. But if it were me, I would try a 91XG (UHF) @ 181 degrees along with a Y10-7-13 VHF antenna @199 degrees, combined with an RCA dual input amp. I'm not sure the VHF would have enough to be split 4 times though. It may be that you would get the better CBS station through the backside of the antenna, don't know. Otherwise higher gain amps on both fed through a USVJ bringing both signals together. (Power injectors for the amps between the antenna and the UVSJ), then split with a quality splitter.

Can't comment on the existing cabling.

[timgr]

Re the cabling, I would certainly try the target setup with a new, factory-made cable direct to the TV first, before I tried any of the cable TV cabling. If the cable is RG-6 with F connectors, it should work, but devices like splitters and amplifiers for cable frequencies probably won't work with OTA TV. And it's always good practice to test components one at a time, to minimize the number of variables.

I would also try a couple of reports at higher altitudes, like 50' and 100', to see what happens to the 181 degree UHF signals.

A -2 or -3 NM is weak. Whith a high-gain directional antenna you might get those weak UHF stations, but any other interference like trees or multipath could prevent it. Do you have clear line-of-sight to the horizon at 181 degrees with the 25' height?

[ADTech]

but devices like splitters and amplifiers for cable frequencies probably won't work with OTA TV.

Unless the equipment is really, really, old, it will usually be okay for OTA usage. Just look for the frequency specification. OTA requires a pass band of 50 MHz on the low side and 700 MHz on the high side. Most current cable TV splitters are rated for 5-900 MHz or 5-1000 MHz and are perfectly suitable for OTA usage. It would certainly help if you can identify the make and model of the "inline amp" that you have so we can see if it's likely to be okay or not.

I can tell you from the my experience working with customers in your general area that the Seattle area is one miserable set of circumstances for many who want to use an antenna due to the combination of terrain, foliage, and transmitter locations.

The nearby presence of the Kiro translator plus the signals from Bellingham (Orcas Island) will complicate matters. I'd suggest following Flint Ridge's advice and give it a shot. Make sure you have a tree-free signal path towards Seattle, though, otherwise your weak UHF signals won't have much of a chance.

[Tekcor1]

Thanks to everyone for the responses. I will be installing the 91XG today, and will report back with my (hopeful!) success. Stay tuned!

[Tekcor1]

Quick question, does the antenna get mounted so it is parallel to the ground? I'm assuming it does, but nothing states explicitly in the directions. Also, the splitter that is currently hooked up is a Signal Vision SV-V3G. Now that I'm looking at it it is probably not an amplifier because it doesn't plug in anywhere. Am I correct about that? It is wired to the grounding rod outside of the house.

[ADTech]

Quick question, does the antenna get mounted so it is parallel to the ground?

Generally, yes. I recommend bore sighting the main boom at the visible horizon line if you're not on flat ground.

[timgr]

Yes, an amplifier requires a power supply.

[ADTech]

The SV-V3G is a common cable TV splitter. Nothing special, fairly typical specifications from the manufacturer, Commscope.

[Tekcor1]

So I installed the 91xg the other day will mixed results. I'm confused about how the channels work, and how to translate them into what channels I'm receiving according to the TVFool report. Here's a list of what I was able to get with the antenna:

4.1 ABC (but not KOMO, which is our local ABC affiliate)
4.2 KOMO 4 (ABC affiliate)
7.1 KIRO 7 (CBS affiliate)
7.2 This one shows up twice
16.1 16.2
20.1 20.2 20.3 20.4 20.5
33.1 33.2 33.3 33.4 33.5 33.6 33.7
42.1
46.1 46.2 46.3 46.4 46.5 46.6
51.1 51.2

Why am I getting multiple channels with different decimal? How are 4.1 and 4.2 both ABC but different channels? Why is KOMO showing up on 4.2 and not 38 as the TVFool report shows? And finally, why can I get KOMO but not NBC when they appear to have virtually identical numbers on the report and are broadcasting from the same place? Thanks for help in working through this!

Edit to add: I do have a clear, unobstructed view to the south where my antenna is pointed.

[timgr]

4.1 and 4.2 are the same real channel 38, multiplexed into 38's allocated bandwidth. These decimal numbers are "virtual channels" which is what appear on your TV. The real channel is 38, 614 to 620 MHz. Each channel is 6 Mhz wide, and can contain multiple viewable channels (each a virtual channel), which are arbitrarily assigned numbers like 4.1, 4.2 etc.

Same for all the channels like 20.1, 20.2, etc.

The virtual channels tend to have the station number of the legacy analog TV channels, before the switch to digital.

This site may help you. Enter the callsign, like KOMO, and it will tell a lot about the station. http://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=komo

So why KOMO and not KING? Because they are both on the edge of reception, and you were lucky with KOMO? They are both 2-edge stations, which means the signal has to be diffracted twice over the horizon in order to be received. Something between you and KOMO is more favorable than between you and KING. You could try moving the antenna around and see if that changes.

[Tekcor1]

Originally Posted by timgr

4.1 and 4.2 are the same real channel 38, multiplexed into 38's allocated bandwidth. These decimal numbers are "virtual channels" which is what appear on your TV. The real channel is 38, 614 to 620 MHz. Each channel is 6 Mhz wide, and can contain multiple viewable channels (each a virtual channel), which are arbitrarily assigned numbers like 4.1, 4.2 etc.

Same for all the channels like 20.1, 20.2, etc.

The virtual channels tend to have the station number of the legacy analog TV channels, before the switch to digital.

This site may help you. Enter the callsign, like KOMO, and it will tell a lot about the station. http://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=komo

So why KOMO and not KING? Because they are both on the edge of reception, and you were lucky with KOMO? They are both 2-edge stations, which means the signal has to be diffracted twice over the horizon in order to be received. Something between you and KOMO is more favorable than between you and KING. You could try moving the antenna around and see if that changes.

That was helpful, thanks. I was hoping there was something I was doing wrong preventing me from getting King. KOMO seems to come in easily no matter where I point the antenna in that General direction, and King doesn't. Once I did have 5.1 show up when I did the autotune, but the picture wouldn't come in. All the other times it wouldn't even find that station. So my next question is, if the channel shows up when I auto tune but the picture doesn't show up, would an amplifier help? Or do I need a picture for an amp to help? I am running directly from the antenna to a tv with no splitters. Thanks again to everyone for the help!

[timgr]

Amp? Maybe.

I found that an amp helped on my Sony Bravia in a situation where it should not. The cable run was only 15'-20' - I was running my current setup indoors to make sure it worked before I put it on the mast. I detect several more channels with the amp in place, but some are blank. Some come and go. Seems to make the unamplified channels more solid - less susceptible to break-up from passing cars.

However, YMMV. You should not see an improvement if you have a short cable run. The amp will raise the signal amplitude but the SNR (signal-to-noise ratio) will get slightly worse. I'd guess it depends a lot on your tuner and how it locks in/out stations.

[ADTech]

if the channel shows up when I auto tune but the picture doesn't show up, would an amplifier help?

Probably. A low noise, medium gain, overload tolerant pre-amp will improve the system noise margin and would likely improve the reception of the weakest stations.

If you do not have power available near the splitter location, you will need to power the amp from indoors and will need to replace the current splitter with one that offers "DC PASS" on one or more ports. These are commonly labled in retail as "satellite" splitters and they will work just fine.

[Tekcor1]

Originally Posted by ADTech

Probably. A low noise, medium gain, overload tolerant pre-amp will improve the system noise margin and would likely improve the reception of the weakest stations.

If you do not have power available near the splitter location, you will need to power the amp from indoors and will need to replace the current splitter with one that offers "DC PASS" on one or more ports. These are commonly labled in retail as "satellite" splitters and they will work just fine.

Do you have a recommendation for a low nise, medium gain, overload tolerant pre-amp?