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Old 2-Apr-2010, 1:35 AM   #1
gfike01
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some help\advice

hello and let me thank you in advance for any help you can give.

First off, here is my signal analysis report:http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...b7c8045497855c

Okay, we are hoping (fingers crossed) to be able to get some local channels. Currently, we only get PBS. We are using a UHF antenna. We tried a vhf\uhf one but did not have any luck but it could be because of the height. We were told that the spot we are in is a dead zone. We live in a trailer with other trailers to our right and left plus open fields in front and behind us. There is a mountain about a mile in front of us (its WV so I guess mountains everywhere would be better to say).

I'm just wondering if there is a way to get some other channels without having to construct a radio tower like structure covered in antennas.

Thank you all once again and I'll answer any questions as best as I can.

Greg
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Old 2-Apr-2010, 12:47 PM   #2
Dave Loudin
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I feel your pain as a former resident of the center of the state (Sutton). You are, unfortunately, thoroughly screwed for getting anything but PBS. All the signals you have a chance of getting on UHF are PBS. The strongest VHF signals are also PBS repeaters. The next channel down the list that might be remotely possible is VHF 12 (WWPX, ION), but you would need a freakishly large VHF antenna to catch it. Sorry.
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Old 2-Apr-2010, 12:54 PM   #3
gfike01
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I kind of figured I would hear that

I found out a neighbor to the NE of us, probably about 25 yards or so in that direction, says he gets the locals (cbs, nbc...). My guess would be that he is in a better location.

I know when we lived on the otherside of moorefield, we could get those channels.

Too bad cable doesnt come out this far

Thank you for your help
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Old 2-Apr-2010, 1:33 PM   #4
Dave Loudin
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Rerun your TVFool prediction using the "start MAPS" option, if you haven't already done so. Enter as much of your address as you want, then use the Google map that displays on the next page to accurately locate the receive point (drag the pointer to right over you - zooming in will be necessary). You can quickly measure the possible impact of additional antenna height by entering different values in the box and letting the predictions refresh each time.

I'm curious about the neighbor's claim. I'm behind the times as far as what repeaters are still active - is he getting the old analog translators from Moorefield (the channels listed in purple at the top of your TVFool report) or is he getting the direct digital broadcasts from Harrisonburg and other places? Specifics will help gauge what might be possible for you.
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Old 2-Apr-2010, 1:42 PM   #5
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When I ran the OP's TV Fool report, it stated that he had a number of analog translators that appeared to be within reach: If that's the case, then he MAY have some luck if he is willing to settle for analog signals. The trick when living in any trailer is to get your antenna outdoors as high from the trailer body as you possibly can, since the metal skin of a trailer will stop most TV signals dead in their tracks.
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Old 2-Apr-2010, 1:48 PM   #6
gfike01
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Hello

I ran the "start maps" and before we start seeing the possibility of getting channels, we would need to be in the hundreds of feet.

My dad started fiddling around and hooked up a different power booster. we are now getting a snowy but somewhat recognizable picture for Fox5 HD out of DC. Its showing up on the analog side of things as its channel 47 but we did not click our DTV button the remote (Our TV has the DTV built in).

The neighbor is not home but when I see him again I will ask.

A quick question for you. If my brain is working right, the translator you spoke of takes the DTV signal and converts it to analog? I assume this is to increase the distance?

Thank you again
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Old 2-Apr-2010, 1:54 PM   #7
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No, analog signals are just that: analog. Your TV tuner also has analog reception built in to it, and you are seeing an unconverted analog signal. A better antenna properly aimed at the transmitter will likely yield better results. Try grabbing a compass and aiming your antenna as close to 138 degrees as you can as measured by your compass to optimize the signal.
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Old 2-Apr-2010, 1:58 PM   #8
gfike01
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Okay

What does the translator do? And thank you for the info
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Old 2-Apr-2010, 2:05 PM   #9
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A translator is a low-power TV station that rebroadcasts the signal of another TV station into an area that otherwise couldn't receive that station's service. it may be owned by a community, a TV station, a non-profit organization, or any other entity that has an interest in providing TV reception to an area that otherwise might not have it. Many translator stations have not yet made the transition to digital transmission, as the FCC has not forced them to do so, since most of them are locally owned and have very small budgets. A translator station usually has limited range, often less than 10 miles from the transmitter. They are often used in mountainous areas where TV signals are blocked by the surrounding hills.
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Old 2-Apr-2010, 2:12 PM   #10
Dave Loudin
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Those translators take the program source (from over-the-air digital or a feed via satellite) and rebroadcast using good old analog NTSC. I bet the neighbor is seeing the translators, and you should, too. Based on the TVFool report, with a moderately sized UHF antenna (either with a couple bow-tie elements in front of a screen or seven or so horizontal elements with a V made of additional horizontal elements behind them), you should get a clear picture without a booster. Be sure that the connectors on the cable aren't loose and the connector to the antenna (the balun) that has the pigtail with two connections isn't damaged somehow.
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Old 2-Apr-2010, 2:19 PM   #11
gfike01
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Thanks for the info

Our antenna looks like an arrow. We have a piece that goes out straight with fins and then the 2 angle pieces have fins also.

This is the closest I can find to the one we have (http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...Value=UHF+only. Dad said the one he bought was about $25 or so at the local radioshack.
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Old 2-Apr-2010, 2:23 PM   #12
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The U-75 should work as long as the antenna is aimed at the transmitters and your coaxial cable and amplifier are good. Please make sure that the antenna is outside of the body of the trailer and is up at LEAST 4' above the roof to get good results.
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Old 2-Apr-2010, 2:31 PM   #13
gfike01
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Thank you

We have it at what appears to be probably 5 feet above the trailer roof. The antenna we have is not the u-75, that i know of. I used that link to show a picture of what it looks similar to. Our antenna could be a smaller one compared to it.

Do you think raising the antenna could help? Right now, dad says it is at 16ft above ground level and probably 1.5 feet away from the trailer (we have it in a metal pipe in the yard and not attached to the trailer).

Edit: I whipped out the old compass as suggested and we have the antenna pretty much at 138 degrees

Last edited by gfike01; 2-Apr-2010 at 2:55 PM.
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Old 2-Apr-2010, 3:01 PM   #14
teleview
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You also need to know your directions of North , South , East , West. Now look at Start MAPS and you will see the the analog Tv translator the red dot on the map to the East and South if you live in town. You need to figure out the front , back , and sides of the Tv antenna and 'direct/point' the front the Tv antenna at the analog Tv translator tower. Analog Tv is the Tv signal that we have all been watching for 70 + years. The Digital Tv signal is the NEW transmission method and has been in the news for several years now.
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Old 2-Apr-2010, 3:27 PM   #15
gfike01
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Thank you all

When have the long end pointing in the direction of the analog tower, least we are hoping. it should be pointing in the direction shown on the map and people have told and pointed to the same general direction.

We now get the locals, some better than others. Only one is basically watchable. Would more height,a better amp or a larger antenna be better? An antenna that does vhf and uhf?

Sorry for all the questions. Just trying to keep the kids happy with pbs cartoons (the way its pointing now, we dont get pbs on the digital side of things but we get it with it pointing the other way. they are suppose to be building a new digital antenna in morgantown for pbs) and keeping the grumpy old man happy with his local news and tv shows. As for me, I got hulu
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Old 2-Apr-2010, 5:58 PM   #16
Dave Loudin
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Pretty much everything you need to know is embedded in you TVFool plot if you know where to look First, the stations are ordered from strongest to weakest at your location. Look at the column labelled "NM" - that's how strong the signal is over the minimum needed for reception. Anything with an NM of 15 or over should be watchable with a modest outdoor antenna. In the most extreme circumstances (as in using the biggest antennas and using preamps (boosters)), reception of signals down to -10 dB or so noise margin can be pulled in. Note that you go quickly from "modest antenna" to "freaking big", and the big antenna would, at best, only buy you two channels - not worth it. Note that the big antenna would be a VHF - really big!

Next, take note of the path for each of the stations you should get - all the analog stations are already LOS, meaning you already have a clear shot at them. Additional antenna height does not make the path better, but being as far away as possible from hulking pieces of metal is best (although it looks like you should already be there.)

Finally, check out the real channel column, that's what the antenna has to respond to. You should already be guessing that a UHF antenna is all that's needed. An antenna the size of the U-75 should be sufficient. If you're not getting clear pictures without a booster, then there's something up with the connection between antenna and TV, as Tigerbangs pointed out.

A new antenna in Morgantown does nothing for you - all your signals, digital and analog, come from low-power translators within 20 miles or so from where you live.
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Old 2-Apr-2010, 6:03 PM   #17
gfike01
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Okay, thank you all for the info.

The only downside is with the way the antenna is pointing now, we get a few analog stations that we can sorta make out that do not hurt the eyes much but pbs comes in horrible. If we have the antenna facing the other way, we can get pbs over digital but no analog. I feel like i'm stuck between a rock and a hard place... children and a grumpy old man

I really do appreciate all the advice and insight as I know I could not figure it out by myself

edit: one last stupid question. When you say Line of sight, is that a clear line of sight or does it include mountains in the path?

Last edited by gfike01; 2-Apr-2010 at 6:06 PM.
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Old 2-Apr-2010, 6:23 PM   #18
teleview
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Your local newspaper should have a listing of the local analog translator channels. The name of the translator owner is Valley Tv Cooperative Incorporated , Moorefield P.O. Box 151 , no phone number. All of the channels that you can receive at your location are UHF channels both to the south east and north east. An antenna amplifier may not help much at your location. The signals are strong , its a matter of finding a hot spot location for the antenna. This is known as probing with the antenna , to find the best signal. You can look at pictures of Tv antennas on the internet and decide what your antenna is. You can put up 2 tv antennas one pointed N/E and one pointed S/E. At Radio Shack you can get a Remote Control A/B switch to switch between the 2 antennas. At Home Depot , 'Top Rail Fence Pipe' used with chain link fence , can used as antenna mast. Here is a little known Tv channel guide that has a lot of information http://www.titantv.com/

Last edited by teleview; 2-Apr-2010 at 6:25 PM.
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Old 2-Apr-2010, 6:32 PM   #19
gfike01
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Thank you

I knew valley tv coop owned the antenna but for the life of me, I could not find an address. We are going to look into getting an a/b switch. of course my suggestion was to either raise our trailer high above everything else or reduce the mountains to rubble. both got shot down

thank you all again for the excellent help
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Old 2-Apr-2010, 6:35 PM   #20
teleview
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Lightbulb Tv

Line of site is clear line of site. No obstructions in the way. With you eye balls or binoculars or a teloscope you can see what you are looking at. That is line of sight. This what one strives for with Tv reception , sometimes it can't be done , so you do the best you can.
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