TV Fool  

Go Back   TV Fool > Over The Air Services > Help With Reception

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 27-Aug-2013, 6:15 PM   #1
jeff92k7
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 9
Reception help in North Dallas (The Colony)

I have a fairly frustrating issue that I have spent hours troubleshooting. The short version is that I'm not getting good reception of channel 4-1 in Dallas (broadcast 35). The other channels come in adequately, including channels that are farther away and lower in broadcast power. The other channels break up only occasionally, but 4-1 breaks up very regularly. So, that's the summary, now here's the details.

Obligatory tvfool report... http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...46aec56172c6e0

Mandatory channels: 4-1, 5-1, 8-1, 11-1, 13-1, 33-1
Preferred channels: 21-1, 26-1, 27-1, 68-1
All broadcast towers are within 3 degrees (185-188)

We recently cut the cord and so I'm putting more effort into improving our OTA reception. We currently have a 20+ year old antenna that was in our attic, but I moved outside onto the old satellite j mount. (Picture should be attached.) The antenna is currently about 10 feet of the ground. It is 5-6 feet long and the UHF section is ~2 ft long. I have no idea what brand/model the antenna is. I got it second hand from my parents. They originally purchased it LONG before the DTV transition mainly for VHF channels, but it does have a UHF section too.

From the antenna (all properly grounded), the signal runs through about 20-30 feet of RG6 cable into the attic where it connects to a Winegard AP-8700 preamp. After the preamp, another 8 ft of RG6 to a two-way splitter (5-1002MHz). Then ~ 40ft of RG6 to the living room and ~50 ft of RG6 to the bedroom. Both locations have TiVo Premier DVRs as the tuners. All cabling uses compression connectors. There are no crimped connections.

I've read many, many posts on various internet forums about preamp or no preamp, splitters, cabling, antennas, etc. The best reception I've been able to get is with the configuration above. I've tried without the preamp where I lose about half the channels and others break up constantly. I've tried different splitters (no change), 4-way splitters to reduce the signal in case the preamp was overloading the tuners (much worse reception and lost about a quarter of the channels). I even tried the antenna direct to only one TiVo (still not good).

I'm about ready to pull my hair out. I'm considering two things right now...
1. Get the antenna higher.
2. Get a new antenna

As for getting it higher, I have a huge WAF to deal with. She doesn't want anything making her house look ugly. Likely all I can do is get a longer J mount (amazon has a 40 inch that should buy me an extra 22 inches of height). Beyond that cost goes way up as does the engineering since I'd have to come up with a completely new mounting location and structure. There is a single, perpindicular line of trees directly across the street from us in the direction of the broadcast towers. Getting above the trees is not an option. They are mature trees with one of them reaching at least 50-60 feet.

As for an antenna, everything I read says I shouldn't need an antenna even as big as what I've got. All but one of the channels I want are in the CEA yellow zone. I've been looking into antennas and see a bunch of options, unfortunately most of the ones with really good UHF performance don't do VHF at all. The combo antennas are a compromise in performance, but may still be better than what I've got. (Separates are not likely due to the WAF).

After reviewing multiple antenna models from pretty much every manufacturer, I keep coming back to the Antennacraft HBU44. It appears that the UHF section is markedly bigger than the one we have. It's biggest selling point is price (~$60) Keeping the cost under $100 and closer to $50 is preferable (again, that pesky WAF). The total length of the antenna is nearly 10 feet so I'm sure I'd have to get the taller mount just to be able to rotate it even the little bit needed without hitting the roof. As it is, I had to bend a couple of the rods on the VHF section of the current antenna to keep them from touching the composite shingles.

To further compound the issue, there are two HAM radio antennas within sight of our house. One is about 200-300 feet away, the other is about 500 feet. They are opposite directions and not in line with where my TV antenna needs to be aimed. They are approximately 80 degrees to each side of my antenna (if 0 degrees is pointed at the TV broadcast towers). I don't even know if they are used or not. They existed long before we bought this house about ten years ago.

The last bit of info I can think of is that the TiVo premiere tuners are known to have poor multipath rejection and why I need to have a directional antenna.

I realize this has been long, but can anyone provide input on how to improve my reception - specifically with channel 4-1 (broadcast 35)? If you need any more info, just ask.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Antenna.jpg (108.6 KB, 686 views)
jeff92k7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-Aug-2013, 8:55 PM   #2
teleview
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Tivo's are Known to have tuners that do not deal well with less then perfect broadcast Tv signals.

-->All broadcast Tv signals are less then perfect.<--

_____________

The HBU44 is a good choice.

_____________

Attic reception is not the best place to get reception.

Radiant Barrier metal backed insulation.

Stucko - Wire -.

Concrete tile roofs.

Metal roofs.

And etc. .

Disrupt and block reception.

Recommend move antenna to above roof in such an manner that the roof and house are not impeding and blocking reception to the , South , South West , South East , East , North.

Aim the antenna at about , South.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

Use a Old School magnetic compass to aim antenna.

With antenna above the roof , recommend Test reception without , preamp , preamp power injector , preamp power supply.

Last edited by teleview; 30-Aug-2013 at 1:15 AM. Reason: Clarify information and typos.
  Reply With Quote
Old 28-Aug-2013, 2:47 PM   #3
jeff92k7
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 9
Thanks, I appreciate the response. I think I will give the HBU44 a try.

After doing some more research, I happened to come across the channel master cm-3016 antenna. That is the exact same design and size as my current antenna. It is rated as a 45 mile antenna in their product details, but when you look at the technical specifications, the 45 mile range is only for VHF (high and low band). The UHF section is only rated for 30 miles. Since all the local stations that I want are 36-39 miles away, it seems that I don't have enough antenna for the job.
jeff92k7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-Aug-2013, 8:31 PM   #4
ADTech
Antennas Direct Tech Supp
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,942
Try different locations for the antenna before drilling any holes. It's not uncommon for there to be channel-specific dead spots that are solved by moving the antenna anywhere from 6 inches or more.
__________________
Antennas Direct Tech Support

For support and recommendations regarding our products, please contact us directly at https://www.antennasdirect.com/customer-service.html

Sorry, I'm not a mod and cannot assist with your site registration.
ADTech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-Aug-2013, 8:04 PM   #5
jeff92k7
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADTech View Post
Try different locations for the antenna before drilling any holes. It's not uncommon for there to be channel-specific dead spots that are solved by moving the antenna anywhere from 6 inches or more.
Thanks for responding. I think this could also be part of the problem, but only in specific relation to the TiVo tuners and possible multi-path interference.

It will probably be a couple of months before I have enough spending money to go buy a new antenna. In the meantime, I decided to build my own. I built one of the UHF antennas based on the instructions at that blogspot post that everyone knows about. I completed it today and put it in the attic where the old YAGI antenna had been. For comparison, I connected the outdoor antenna directly to my living room TV with no splitters or amp. I noted the signal strength on all the channels I care about. I then connected the DIY 4-bay UHF antenna in the attic directly to the same TV. I made notes of the signal strength on the same channels.

On all but one channel, the signal strength was as good or better with the DIY antenna (attic) as it was with the YAGI antenna (outdoor). The one channel that was worse was 8-1 (broadcast 8 - High VHF) as expected. Though it was still perfectly watchable.

Interestingly, channel 4-1 (35) showed signal strength of 100% with both antennas. This tells me that the TV tuner is better than the TiVo tuner (no surprise). Unfortunately, a lot of channels were showing at 100% with both antennas so I can't really say which antenna is better on those channels since the TV says they're both getting good signal. I do recall that the TiVo meter isn't that generous since my best channel on it is in the 95 range and 4-1 is somewhere in the 60's. (I really wish the current software version hadn't caused the TiVo signal meter to freeze. I really want to do some scans with the TiVo since that's what I intend to use).

I then put a lower gain amp (11db, left by the cable company) on the DIY antenna and checked again, signal strength is up for everything, though 8-1 is still not quite as strong as it is on the real antenna.

I'll play around more with various configurations and post back. As it stands, it looks like the DIY antenna may be what I go with until I can afford a new real antenna.
jeff92k7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7-Sep-2013, 11:40 PM   #6
jeff92k7
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 9
For anyone interested, I am now using both the outdoor antenna and the DIY attic antenna. I bought a UVSJ and inserted it before the preamp. I'm using the outdoor for VHF and the attic antenna for UHF. Signal strength is up for everything and it looks like this solution will work for now.

Thanks to those of you who offered help. I think the combination of a better antenna design and different location improved the reception for the problem channel.
jeff92k7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Go Back   TV Fool > Over The Air Services > Help With Reception



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT. The time now is 6:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright © TV Fool, LLC