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22-Jan-2011, 1:03 AM
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#1
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 7
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Help with reception
Hi,
We have poor reception on several channels (2,6 and 12) most of the time. Channels 8 and 10 usually have good reception unless there is heavy rain or
wind. There is a row of fir trees about 120 ft. from the antenna and a row of pine trees about 70 ft. beyond the firs. Both are between the antenna and the tv towers.
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...3cf4658af730bd
Our antenna is Radio Shack 150-0264 installed 5/2009, but the cable is much older. The antenna is about 5 ft. above the roof, a total of 19 ft. above the
ground. Cable run is 55 ft. Indoors we have a Channel Master amplifier
model 3043 with gain of 22dB and a Philco converter box model TB100HH9.
Reception is even worse without the amplifier.
Would you recommend replacing the older cable? Would a different amp be
advised? We'd appreciate any suggestions to improve our tv reception. When the signals were analog, we had excellent reception of channels 2,6,8,10 and 12.
Thank you!
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22-Jan-2011, 2:19 AM
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#2
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Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Greater Seattle Area
Posts: 4,773
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The report you have posted strongly suggests that an amplifier should not be needed, certainly not one with over 20 dB of gain. That leads me to be suspicious of the condition of the old coax. As a test, I would substitute a known good coax, running directly from the antenna to the tuner, bypassing the amplifier. Wet, moving tree limbs can cause reception problems but so can old wet coax. If you take a connection apart, look carefully for signs of moisture and corrosion. If you find either, replace the coax and the part it was connected to.
If you are near a Home Depot, their return policy is incredibly generous, which means you could purchase a 100' cable with connectors, while taking little risk.
I'm not sure if I found the antenna you listed, one web site gave a description of a fairly large UHF / High VHF antenna. If your existing antenna has no UHF section, you would still receive quite a few stations, but not as reliably. If I were to recommend a new or replacement antenna in your situation, I would suggest an Antennacraft HBU-22 or similar UHF + high VHF antenna. http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...0Antennas&sku= That is because all but three of the digital stations are transmitting on UHF "real" channels. KGW, KOPB and KPTV transmit on channel 8, 10 & 12 respectively. The type of antenna I referred to, includes elements designed to cover all of the UHF channels and VHF channels 7 through 13.
Also, if I were to making a recommendation for a new install, I would not suggest an amplified splitter such as the CM-3043. Instead I would recommend a simple passive splitter. An antenna such as the HBU-22 should receive enough signal to drive one to four receivers using the appropriate passive splitter.
__________________
If the well is dry and you don't see rain on the horizon, you'll need to dig the hole deeper. (If the antenna can't get the job done, an amp won't fix it.)
(Please direct account activation inquiries to 'admin')
Last edited by GroundUrMast; 22-Jan-2011 at 2:51 AM.
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22-Jan-2011, 10:27 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,697
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Tv Antennas and Reception
Point the Tv antenna at 60 degrees magnetic compass. This how to point Tv antennas. http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html
Last edited by John Candle; 23-Jan-2011 at 2:18 AM.
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22-Jan-2011, 1:42 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Delmar, NY
Posts: 1,236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chloe
Hi,
Reception is even worse without the amplifier.
Thank you!
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Did you completely remove the amplifier, or did you simply unplug the power supply?
You should not need an amplifier at all.
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22-Jan-2011, 2:52 PM
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#5
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Antennas Direct Tech Supp
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,942
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Quote:
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GUM must have missed the low band digital channel KRCW-LP 5 low band channel listed in pending applications included , only digital. So I recommend the Winegard HD7082P all channel antenna
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KRCW-LD is a VHF-5 translator for KRCW on UHF-33 (31.2) which he is probably already receiving since he didn't mention it as a problem channel. Since the owner of KRCW is (or recently was) in bankruptcy, the CP has so far gone un-built. Low-band capability is unnecessary anyway for the Portland stations.
A high-VHF/UHF antenna is all that is required.
No amp, it will probably overload. Passive only.
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22-Jan-2011, 8:14 PM
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#6
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 7
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Thank you all. Will try new coax cable and no amp on Monday. Radio Shack antenna specs: HDTV/VHF/UHF for channels 7-69. 31 elements, 85 " boom, W x H x Turning radius: 43.5 x 23.5 x 48", impedance 300 ohms.
Thanks!
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22-Jan-2011, 8:28 PM
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#7
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 7
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Thank you all. Will try new coax cable without amp on Monday. Radio Shack antenna specs: HDTV/VHF/UHF for channels 7-69. 31 elements, 85 " boom, W x H x Turning radius: 43.5 x 23.5 x 48", impedance 300 ohms.
We have tried completely removing the amp. We have 1 TV. Not concerned
about receiving KRCW (32.1). Moisture at the transformer/F connector may
be a problem--there is no weather boot. Will inspect when installing cable,
replace F connector and seal with tape.
Thanks for the advice!
Chloe
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22-Jan-2011, 8:50 PM
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#8
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Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Greater Seattle Area
Posts: 4,773
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Quote:
Moisture at the transformer/F connector may
be a problem--there is no weather boot.
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It sounds like you should pick up a new matching transformer / balun when you are shopping for coax.
The antenna you describe matches what I found on a non-Radio Shack web site. It is slightly larger that the HBU-22 I mentioned earlier and if its in good condition, it should provide excellent signal for several receivers. It sounds like a very good choice for your situation.
__________________
If the well is dry and you don't see rain on the horizon, you'll need to dig the hole deeper. (If the antenna can't get the job done, an amp won't fix it.)
(Please direct account activation inquiries to 'admin')
Last edited by GroundUrMast; 22-Jan-2011 at 8:58 PM.
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23-Jan-2011, 1:45 AM
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#9
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 7
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I will try to replace the transformer also. How/where can one get a matching transformer?
The info that came with the antenna doesn't mention the transformer specs.
Thanks!
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23-Jan-2011, 2:15 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,697
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Tv Antennas and Reception
Matching transformers are also known as baluns. The transformer/balun has 2 wires that connect to the antenna on one end and on the other end is where the coax cable connects. The transformer/baluns come in 2 flavors , indoor and outdoor. You can get them local at radio shack or a big box store like Home Depot. If you have only one converter and Tv to connect then do not use a splitter.
Last edited by John Candle; 23-Jan-2011 at 2:23 AM.
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23-Jan-2011, 7:34 PM
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#11
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Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Greater Seattle Area
Posts: 4,773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chloe
... Moisture at the transformer/F connector may
be a problem--there is no weather boot. Will inspect when installing cable,
replace F connector and seal with tape.
Thanks for the advice!
Chloe
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A common mistake is to use vinyl electrical tape as a seal against moisture. From my 27 years in the telecom industry, I can guaranty it will eventually leak, then hold the moisture in. I would recommend using coax seal http://www.amazon.com/Universal-Elec...5814331&sr=8-1 or dielectric grease http://www.amazon.com/Permatex-81150...5814435&sr=8-5 (Radio Shack might be a source, maybe the home improvement centers too. Auto parts stores commonly stock dielectric grease, sometimes calling it 'tune-up grease')
Some folks have reported observing some signal loss when using dielectric grease. I have not, but I respect the source. When I choose dielectric grease, I use it as a filling compound for the weather boot. To get 100% fill of the weather boot, I slide the boot a few inches back from the connector, apply a bead of the compound to the coax between the boot and the connector. Then as I slide the boot back over the connector, all of the air is displaced from inside the boot.
__________________
If the well is dry and you don't see rain on the horizon, you'll need to dig the hole deeper. (If the antenna can't get the job done, an amp won't fix it.)
(Please direct account activation inquiries to 'admin')
Last edited by GroundUrMast; 23-Jan-2011 at 8:38 PM.
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25-Jan-2011, 4:15 AM
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#12
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 7
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Installed new matching transformer and coax cable, covered joint with coax seal, and removed amp. Seeing good reception on 2 (signal strength 22), 6 (ss 19), 8 (ss 26), 10 (ss 48). Slightly improved reception of 12 (ss 17), but still not viewable. Tried repointing the antenna, but couldn't get better than signal strength of 17. Weather is dry with some high clouds and no wind--pretty much the best we get in the winter! Happy to be able to watch 2 and 6! Any ideas for improving the reception of channel 12? Thanks for the advice!
Chloe
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25-Jan-2011, 9:04 AM
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#13
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 65
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Radio Shack brand antennas are known to have subpar reception quality. I used to have a monstrous VU-190 and found that it was very inferior to offerings by Winegard, Antennacraft, etc...
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25-Jan-2011, 10:29 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,697
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Tv Antennas and Reception
Read and understand this about Real Digital Tv Channels and Virtual Digital Tv Channels , http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=695. The digital channels at the top of the list are Strong and should be booming in not wimping in. Might be a bad Digital to Analog converter box . If New RG-6 coax from the Antenna DIRECTLY to the Converter Box , by passing every thing else. And a New coax from the converter box to the Tv by passing Every Thing between the converter box and the Tv and the antenna is pointed in the correct direction does not produce strong channels then somethings fishy here. I am narrowing my eyes. This does Not pass the smell test.
Last edited by John Candle; 25-Jan-2011 at 11:34 PM.
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25-Jan-2011, 11:11 PM
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#15
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Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Greater Seattle Area
Posts: 4,773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chloe
Installed new matching transformer and coax cable, covered joint with coax seal, and removed amp. Seeing good reception on 2 (signal strength 22), 6 (ss 19), 8 (ss 26), 10 (ss 48). Slightly improved reception of 12 (ss 17), but still not viewable. Tried repointing the antenna, but couldn't get better than signal strength of 17. Weather is dry with some high clouds and no wind--pretty much the best we get in the winter! Happy to be able to watch 2 and 6! Any ideas for improving the reception of channel 12? Thanks for the advice!
Chloe
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A few questions:
What is the roof under the antenna made of? Wood shingles, Fiberglass/Asphalt, Metal...
Does your antenna look similar to this? http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...0Antennas&sku=
Are there any bent, broken or missing parts on the antenna?
Was there any significant corrosion on the terminals that the matching transformer connects to?
Do you have family, friends or neighbors who could loan a known good converter box or digital ready set to test with?
Can you find some old fashioned rabbit-ears to test with? (The signal strength should be easily enough to allow for great reception with a non-amplified indoor antenna provided the building does not have metal in the insulation or siding.)
Just to confirm, when you checked the aiming, were you getting the best signal when the front of the antenna pointed toward Portland? http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html
__________________
If the well is dry and you don't see rain on the horizon, you'll need to dig the hole deeper. (If the antenna can't get the job done, an amp won't fix it.)
(Please direct account activation inquiries to 'admin')
Last edited by GroundUrMast; 26-Jan-2011 at 6:31 PM.
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26-Jan-2011, 3:57 PM
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#16
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 11
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can you cross the wiring to the bowtie from back to front would this still receive reception like that or have to be straight out to the bowtie directional antenna i have had to rewire it
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26-Jan-2011, 7:06 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,697
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Tv Antennas and Reception
clayton you are posting in some else post again , are you Ok ?
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28-Jan-2011, 3:01 AM
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#18
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GroundUrMast
A few questions:
What is the roof under the antenna made of? Wood shingles, Fiberglass/Asphalt, Metal...
Does your antenna look similar to this? http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...0Antennas&sku=
Are there any bent, broken or missing parts on the antenna?
Was there any significant corrosion on the terminals that the matching transformer connects to?
Do you have family, friends or neighbors who could loan a known good converter box or digital ready set to test with?
Can you find some old fashioned rabbit-ears to test with? (The signal strength should be easily enough to allow for great reception with a non-amplified indoor antenna provided the building does not have metal in the insulation or siding.)
Just to confirm, when you checked the aiming, were you getting the best signal when the front of the antenna pointed toward Portland? http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html |
The roof is asphalt.
Yes, the antenna looks the same as the one in your link. There are no bent,
broken, or missing parts. There was a small amount of corrosion on the terminals that the transformer is connected to, and we removed the corrosion.
We agree that the converter box might be the problem and will buy a new
one--sometimes they are even on craigslist.
Tried rabbit ears initially (about 2 yrs. ago) and had no reception.
No metal siding on the house and no metal in the insulation in the living area
of the house. Insulation in the garage walls has the foil layer on the bats,
but the roof-top antenna is at the opposite end of the house and is not pointed towards the garage.
Yes, the best signal was obtained when the front of the antenna was pointed
toward Portland.
Thanks for the help!
Chloe
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28-Jan-2011, 4:34 AM
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#19
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Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Greater Seattle Area
Posts: 4,773
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If you can not borrow a known good receiver to test with, a replacement set-top converter box is a logical next step.
__________________
If the well is dry and you don't see rain on the horizon, you'll need to dig the hole deeper. (If the antenna can't get the job done, an amp won't fix it.)
(Please direct account activation inquiries to 'admin')
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