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Old 30-Aug-2013, 5:06 PM   #1
yotatoy
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Yet Another.... Antenna selection help question...

Hello,

First things first...
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...46aeba9a6f1a7a


My desired channels are the main locals (CBS, ABC, NBC, FOX) with fox being the furthest at 48 miles.

Thursday I bought an $30 RCA Antenna to test, (RCA ANT1450BR http://www.amazon.com/RCA-ANT1450BR-.../dp/B001GE6T9A) I was able to pull in 1 channel with it. I chalk that one up as a fail. I am returning it to walmart tomorrow. My intent when I left the house that morning was to buy the ultimate leaf at sams club (supposedly on sale for $49.95 according to fatwallet.com), however sams had zero antennas. Walmart had the leaf, but wanted $80 for it, and I am somewhat in disbelief of its claimed 50 mile range. And I didnt want to spend $80 so I got the RCA. Anyhow, Looking for suggestions on what antenna I should go with that wont be super expensive, would be ok with a DIY solution as well.

The current goal is to get it tuned into my TV for football, then buy a tuner card for my HTPC and intergrate into my XBMC setup.

I "cut the cord" about 6 months ago and love it, but now that football season is upon us I need to get the antenna up and moving. I had a small antenna before when I lived in NC and it was AWESOME. But up here in the middle of no where, it seems a bit harder.

Thanks in advance.


Additional info since writing above: I have found info on this DIY antenna, thought about building it but due to time constraints think it would be better for a store bought solution. Preferably from a store where I can "site-to-store" or pick up locally so that I can return it if I need to.

Thanks
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Old 31-Aug-2013, 2:07 AM   #2
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Don't let them fool you that more expensive is better. The Leaf is about as cheap as it can be in terms of materials. The design is lacking too. The retail price is over the top.

How's the tree situation around you? Can you mount an antenna on the roof?
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Old 31-Aug-2013, 5:17 AM   #3
yotatoy
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A lot of trees around, but non in the immediate vicinity. I probably have 1/4-1/2 mile to the forrest tree line.

And Yes I can mount it on my roof.

Thanks Elmo
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Old 31-Aug-2013, 6:20 AM   #4
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Your reception report is flagged with: WARNING: Address was only resolved to street level and might not be that close to your actual location. For more accurate results, try entering a specific address or coordinates.

When generating a TV Fool report, my preferred method is to open the Interactive TV Maps tool. Leave the 'input method' set to the default, 'address'. Then, enter only the ZIP Code, and then click the 'Map This' button.

At this point you should have a map displayed, with a movable cursor located at the center of the ZIP Code tat was entered. Use your mouse to drag the cursor to the exact location you're interested in. In the upper right corner of the map you can select from four view types, I find it helpful to have all four available... The Hybrid and Terrain modes seem to be what I use the most.

At the bottom of the map, enter the antenna height. You can also find the LAT/LON coordinates of the cursor (in decimal form, not deg/min/sec).

Once the cursor location and the antenna height are set correctly, click on the 'Make Radar Plot' button located at the upper right corner of the map. The TV Fool report opens in a new tab or window. You can then copy the URL from the address bar of your browser, for posting to a thread.

I hope this helps, I just want to be sure we give you advise based on the actual conditions at your location.
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If the well is dry and you don't see rain on the horizon, you'll need to dig the hole deeper. (If the antenna can't get the job done, an amp won't fix it.)

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Old 31-Aug-2013, 6:35 AM   #5
yotatoy
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I noticed that, it coudlnt find my exact address. but my street is only about 1/4 mile long and about 8-10 houses. It will be more or elss the same from anywhere on my street, give or take a 1/2 degree angle. Distance remains the same, altitude the same.
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Old 31-Aug-2013, 6:42 AM   #6
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If the first TV Fool report is representative of your situation, I would try using an Antennas Direct DB4e. Start with an aim point of about 125° per a real compass. (I have never been able to trust a 'smart' phone compass app.)

If the single antenna does not provide reliable reception of the signals you need/want, you may need to consider adding a second antenna dedicated to reception of the signals to the south and southeast. If you only care about reception of the four major networks you mentioned, consider contacting tinlee.com re. an AC7-Series Antenna Signal Injector configured for UHF channel 32. This would provide a means to combine two DB4e antennas, the main one facing east and the second facing the WFQX tower.

There are other options that would provide access to all the signals in the green and yellow portion of your report...
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Old 31-Aug-2013, 6:45 AM   #7
yotatoy
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FOX, NBC, and CBS, are the 3 important ones. Only need it for football, everything else I stream. I will check out that antenna, thanks for the suggestion.
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Old 31-Aug-2013, 6:52 AM   #8
yotatoy
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For giggle and grins, I tried address again with same results, so I pulled up my address on google maps, then clicked and got coordinates. And heres the updated report.

Thanks again for the help.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...46ae9d27c9e4f0
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Old 31-Aug-2013, 2:04 PM   #9
yotatoy
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hmm

Thought I posted this last night... ooops...

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...46ae9d27c9e4f0

this one was pulled with GPS coordinate that I got off google maps by clicking on my house.
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Old 31-Aug-2013, 6:06 PM   #10
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There's not a dramatic difference between the reports, thanks for going to the extra effort.

Your HTPC may make managing a multiple antenna install much easier if you find you need to go that route.

http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=820
http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=2882
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Old 31-Aug-2013, 9:49 PM   #11
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All provided tvfool radar reports are at the default 10 feet above ground antenna height.

I suppect that installing a Channel Master CM4228HD UHF/VHF antenna higher then 10 feet above ground will increase signal strenghts , and make it possible to receive all the receivable broadcast Tv stations/channels of ,

CBS.
PBS.
NBC.
ABC.
FOX.

with the CM4228HD UHF/VHF antenna aimed 1 direction.

Above the roof in such a manner that the roof and house are not impeding and blocking reception in the directions of , North East , East , South East , South.

Aim the CM4228HD UHF/VHF antenna at about 125 degree magnetic compass direction.

125 degree magnetic compass direction is a in between aim direction of the receivable Tv stations locations.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

Use a Old School magnetic compass to aim antenna with.

__________

A Winegard DS3000 J pole type antenna mount is a Ok antenna mount for the CM4228HD UHF/VHF antenna.
__________

Here are more antenna mounts.

http://www.ronard.com/909911.html.
Use the , ronard(911) , 5 foot tripod antenna mount.

http://www.ronard.com/34424560.html.
Use the , ronard(4560) , eave antenna mount.

http://www.ronard.com/ychim.html.
Measure around the chimney and use a , ronard(2212) , ronard(2218) , ronard(2224).

Buy the ronard antenna mounts at solidsignal by typing , ronard(x) , in the solidsignal search box or buy from ronard.

____________

Here are some places to buy antennas and etc. .

http://www.soldsignal.com.

http://www.amazon.com.

http://www.channelmasterstore.com.

http://www.winegarddirect.com.

http://www.hollandelectronics.com

_____________

Install a Channel Master CM7778 preamplifier.

_____________

For 1 Tv conneced use No splitter.

For 2 Tv's connected use a , Hollandelectronics , HFS-2D , 2 way splitter.

For 3 Tv's connected use a , Hollandelectronics , HFS-3D , 3 way splitter.

Buy the HFS splitters at solidsignal.

_____________

As always , trees and tree leaves , plants and plant leaves , have a Negative effect on reception in directions of reception and so do buildings and other obstructions including your own roof and house.

The Best Practice is to install the CM4228HD UHF/VHF antenna is at a location that has the least amount to no amount of obstructions of any type or kind in the directions of reception including your own roof and house.

The Tv/s Must Channel Scan for the , OTA=Over The Air , Digital Broadcast Tv stations channels , often named the 'Air Channels' or ' Antenna Channels' in the Tv Setup Menu because the Tv transmissions travel through the Air from the transmitting antenna to the receiving antenna.

Some digital tv's will Automatic channel scan for cable tv channels.

DO NOT channel scan for cable tv channels.

Go into the Tv Setup Menu and select , 'Air Channels' ~ 'Antenna Channels'.

Scan for channels.

__________________________

As always , the starting antenna aim direction is the --> starting antenna aim direction.
The antenna aim direction is adjusted for best reception.

Most Digital Tv's have a Signal Strength Meter and some Digital Tv's also have a Signal Quality Meter.

______________________

If the CM4228HD UHF/VHF antenna does not receive all the receivable Tv stations/channels.

A second antenna can be installed.

Aim the CM4228HD UHF/VHF antenna at about 172 degree magnetic compass direction.

And aim a second CM4228Hd UHF/VHS antenna at about 79 degree magnetic compass direction.

Use a Winegard 7870 , transformer type isolation coupler combiner to connect the 2 CM4228HD antennas to 1 down lead.

Connect the CM7778 preamplifier to the output of the Winegard 7870.

____________________________________
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Old 31-Aug-2013, 9:54 PM   #12
yotatoy
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Yeah, I use XBMC on my HTPC. I my eventual goal once I get my antenna config working is to get a tuner card for my HTPC so I can use it as a DVR as well. A one stop for all my stuff.

But thats later down the road. For now its just get it working on the TV. I checked out that antenna you referenced, it seems nice, but at $119, it seems like quite a bit more then I want to spend (about double) I am hoping to keep it around/under $60. But then again, based on my location, that might not be possible...

Thanks again for your help.
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Old 31-Aug-2013, 10:04 PM   #13
yotatoy
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Scratch that above statement, I looked around a bit more and found it here: Soild Singal Open Box as an Open Box item for $49.99 with free shipping (+ $3 for sales tax in Michigan), so I ordered it up.
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Old 31-Aug-2013, 10:35 PM   #14
yotatoy
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Sometimes I wish my thoughts were quicker then my enter button...

2 thoughts/questions...

1. For my initial install I am going to attempt using the antenna by its self. If that doesnt work I am going to look into an amp. I have seen there are 2 types of amps, a pre amp and a amp near the TV. I am assuming a preamp would be the correct one to use, but should ask the gurus.

2. I am planning to initially try using the directTV mast I already have on my roof. (its on wrong side of roof, so may not work, but worth a shot since its already wired) Then I need to bring it into the house. Heres the catch (although probably a common issue) I have cable internet that runs to my modem which sits directly underneath my TV with the only cable outlet in my living room.

Heres a diagram of what I "want" to do, but I am not sure if it will work...


I am guessing it will NOT work and will need to run another line, but I am hopeful that I am wrong...

Cheers!
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Old 1-Sep-2013, 12:18 AM   #15
GroundUrMast
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RE. #1: If you can make this work without an amplifier, great, you've saved a few $. Yes, locate the amp close to the antenna. That feeds the amp the best quality signal and places it where it can overcome the loss in cable and splitting. At the TV is the least productive place for any amplifier.

Re. #2: Please, don't connect an antenna to any part of the cable TV system. You'll radiate signals that will interfere with police, fire, aviation and other licensed radio services. If you have to run new coax, so be it.
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If the well is dry and you don't see rain on the horizon, you'll need to dig the hole deeper. (If the antenna can't get the job done, an amp won't fix it.)

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Old 1-Sep-2013, 1:34 AM   #16
yotatoy
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Re. Re. #2: Just to clarify. I do not have any "cable TV" services on that line. It is for "Cable Internet" only, it has some sort of filter installed. I assume this makes no difference and it may still cause interference, which of course is why I posed the question.

Thanks Again
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Old 1-Sep-2013, 1:41 AM   #17
yotatoy
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on a side note, after a bit of google research I came across the possibility of using a diplexer. It makes sense, when I had dish network they used a diplexer setup to allow my bedroom tv to be fed from the downstairs DVR. Basically allows cross traffic on a same line, without any issues.

http://bandtcrowd.blogspot.com/2013/...-internet.html

I will do some more research on them and report back, but leaning towards that as an option in order to now redo drywall on a floor I just repainted in order to get ready to sell.
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Old 1-Sep-2013, 2:22 AM   #18
GroundUrMast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yotatoy View Post
Re. Re. #2: Just to clarify. I do not have any "cable TV" services on that line. It is for "Cable Internet" only, it has some sort of filter installed. I assume this makes no difference and it may still cause interference, which of course is why I posed the question.

Thanks Again
Internet service delivered via cable company facilities will use frequencies assigned to licensed radio services. I'm quite certain that even if the cable company applied a filter, you would be at risk of radiating harmful interference. Again, the only way to ensure that you don't interfere with licensed radio services is, 'Don't connect an antenna to any part of the cable TV system'.
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If the well is dry and you don't see rain on the horizon, you'll need to dig the hole deeper. (If the antenna can't get the job done, an amp won't fix it.)

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Old 1-Sep-2013, 2:31 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yotatoy View Post
on a side note, after a bit of google research I came across the possibility of using a diplexer. It makes sense, when I had dish network they used a diplexer setup to allow my bedroom tv to be fed from the downstairs DVR. Basically allows cross traffic on a same line, without any issues.

http://bandtcrowd.blogspot.com/2013/...-internet.html

I will do some more research on them and report back, but leaning towards that as an option in order to now redo drywall on a floor I just repainted in order to get ready to sell.
A satellite / OTA diplexer will block the cable Internet service.

Have a look at this technology... http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=13034 If you can locate your cable modem closer to the point of entry, perhaps you can convey your Ethernet data over your OTA distribution coax. You still need to avoid radiating any signals into the air through your antenna.
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If the well is dry and you don't see rain on the horizon, you'll need to dig the hole deeper. (If the antenna can't get the job done, an amp won't fix it.)

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