Lost my closests stations

[bincitybandit]

Need help getting some stations. I have this antenna:

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=ANC3000

Here is my signal report:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...2df9f978c65c9e

I can get KXJB, KVLY, WDAY, and KMDE.

I cannot get KFME, WDAZ or KJRR, which are the two closest transmitters to me.

I put the antenna up in January, and was able to get those 3 stations until about April. Since then, can't get them.

On a clear day, I can get some signal from KVRR, which is over twice as far as the two channels that went away.

So what happened that I'm not able to get these? I see in the signal report, those three are listed as VHF stations and the ones I do still get are UHF.

The antenna is 65 feet off the ground. I get excellent signal on all 4 of the channels I still get, except WDAY. That can be a bit scratchy on a cloudy or stormy day.

[GroundUrMast]

Your existing antenna is a notoriously poor performer in two important areas. First, it's omnidirectional design makes it incapable of rejecting multipath interference. Second, the VHF reception capability is very poor. Channel Master does not publish the specs, while the similar product from Antennacraft (5MS921) has negative gain in all bands, in fact double digit negative gain in the VHF range.

I don't want to be discouraging, though perhaps I have been. I would like to encourage you to consider using an antenna system with positive gain and directional ability.

I suggest the Antennas Direct DB4e facing 110° (compass). This antenna should receive the UHF signals of KXJB, KVLY, WDAY & KMDE.

There are several VHF signals that can be received, WDAZ, KJRR & KFME. I would use an Antennacraft Y10713 for these. It will need to be mounted on a rotator or you'll need one antenna for each of the signals.

I would install an Antennas Direct PA-18 preamplifier on each antenna. If you choose to use a single rotating Y10713, you can combine the output of each amplifier, down stream of the power insertion block into a single coax. Combining UHF only with VHF only is easily done with a UVSJ.

If you want to avoid the rotator, a tuned combiner from www.tinlee.com would be a possible solution. But you face a technical challenge when two signals are adjacent and from different directions, CH-7 & CH-8 in this case.

http://www.amazon.com/Antennas-Direc...&keywords=DB4e
http://www.antennacraft.net/Antennas/AntennasVHF.html
http://www.amazon.com/Antennas-Direc...keywords=PA-18
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...nna-%28UVSJ%29

I will suggest some ways to go about receiving the Tv stations/channels.

Here is the first way.

Research shows that these Tv stations are the same.

WDAZ-TV VHF channel 8 and WDAY-DT UHF channel 21 are the same programing , ABC and CW , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WDAZ-TV.

KFME VHF channel 13 and KMDE UHF channel 25 are both the same PBS , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KFME_(TV).
___________________________

With the omnidirectional antenna you list these Tv stations as received , all UHF channels ,

KXJB-DT UHF channel 38 , CBS.

KVLY-DT UHF channel 44 , NBC and This Tv.

WDAY-DT UHF channel 21 , ABC and CW.

KMDE-DT UHF channel 25 , PBS.

So that leaves 1 more channel to receive that is not received to complete the reception of the networks with out repeating any.

KJRR-DT VHF channel 7 , FOX.

That being the situation , the omnidirectional antenna can be left in place and a second antenna can be installed for the reception of KJRR-DT VHF channel 7 FOX.

Install a Winegard YA1713 VHF antenna with a Antennas Direct CPA-19 preamp , aimed at about 195 degree magnetic compass direction.

For 1 Tv connected use no splitter.

For 2 Tv's connected use a , HFS-2D , 2 way splitter.

For 3 Tv's connected use a , HFS-3D , 3 way splitter.

Buy the HFS splitters at , http://www.hollandelectronics.com , or , http://www.solidsignal.com.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

The 2 antenna systems , the omnidirectional antenna system and the YA1713 antenna system will not be connected together on to 1 coax. The 2 systems will be separate all the way to the location/s of the Tv/s. And the 2 separate systems will be connected to a Remote control A/B antenna switch at each Tv location. http://www.mcmelectronics.com , #32-4425 , or , http://www.radioshack.com , #15-1968 .

Here are some places to buy antennas and etc. , http://www.solidsignal.com , http://www.amazon.com , http://www.winegarddirect.com.

I am doing more research. And more research.

Buy reverse engineering to close to your location. I see that the YA1713 antenna does not need to be at 65 feet antenna height for reception.

A antenna height of , 20 , 30 , 40 , feet above ground gives signal strengths of +18 or so NM (dB).

The NM(dB) at 65 feet is +17 NM(dB).

So that means that the YA1713 antenna does not have to be 65 feet above ground. 20 or 30 feet will be fine for reception.

Installing a antenna at 20 feet above ground is easier on the nerves then 65 feet.

And with a better antenna for the other Tv stations channels then the omnidirectional antenna , it looks like the better antenna will not be required to be 65 feet in the air for all the other channels.

Please post 2 more tvfool radar plot reports , 20 feet and 40 feet.

[bincitybandit]

Thanks for the replies.

The reason I want WDAZ despite being a duplicate of WDAY is because traditionally the signal is stronger. I lose WDAY when the clouds come out. Up until the end of April this year, WDAZ was my strongest station.

I just don't understand why I was able to recieve all of these stations with good quality (except WDAY) with this antenna at 40 ft up until April of this year. Then I lost the ones I mentioned all of the sudden. I raised the antenna to 65 feet and no change.

[bincitybandit]

Originally Posted by GroundUrMast

Your existing antenna is a notoriously poor performer in two important areas. First, it's omnidirectional design makes it incapable of rejecting multipath interference. Second, the VHF reception capability is very poor. Channel Master does not publish the specs, while the similar product from Antennacraft (5MS921) has negative gain in all bands, in fact double digit negative gain in the VHF range.

I don't want to be discouraging, though perhaps I have been. I would like to encourage you to consider using an antenna system with positive gain and directional ability.

I suggest the Antennas Direct DB4e facing 110° (compass). This antenna should receive the UHF signals of KXJB, KVLY, WDAY & KMDE.

There are several VHF signals that can be received, WDAZ, KJRR & KFME. I would use an Antennacraft Y10713 for these. It will need to be mounted on a rotator or you'll need one antenna for each of the signals.

I would install an Antennas Direct PA-18 preamplifier on each antenna. If you choose to use a single rotating Y10713, you can combine the output of each amplifier, down stream of the power insertion block into a single coax. Combining UHF only with VHF only is easily done with a UVSJ.

If you want to avoid the rotator, a tuned combiner from www.tinlee.com would be a possible solution. But you face a technical challenge when two signals are adjacent and from different directions, CH-7 & CH-8 in this case.

http://www.amazon.com/Antennas-Direc...&keywords=DB4e
http://www.antennacraft.net/Antennas/AntennasVHF.html
http://www.amazon.com/Antennas-Direc...keywords=PA-18
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...nna-%28UVSJ%29

Could I mount a directional antenna facing toward KJRR and use the UVSJ to combine the existing cable.

Please make 2 more tvfool radar plot reports , 20 and 40 feet.

Yes I am aware of the WDAZ / WDAY situation and other issues and will be dealing with them.

The tvfool radar plots at 20 and 40 feet will be nice.

It is good to have more the one option/person giving advice of what to do.

[GroundUrMast]

Your existing antenna is amplified, powered from a supply in the house I presume. The existing coax caries signal down and power up at the same time. A UVSJ often does not pass power through the UHF port which would cause the existing antenna to stop working if you put the UVSJ in line outside. The UVSJ sold by Solid Signal is described as passing power only through the VHF port.

A DB4e will do a much better job receiving the real UHF signals.

A Y10713 or YA1713 pointed at KJRR has a fair chance of receiving the signal from WDAZ though the back simultaneously.

So, to answer your question,

Could I mount a directional antenna facing toward KJRR and use the UVSJ to combine the existing cable?

A single amplifier near the antennas can serve both at a very slight cost to signal quality.

To use a setup that uses only one amplifier and coax down-lead,

The output of the DB4e connects to the UHF port of the UVSJ.
The output of the VHF antenna connects to the VHF port of the UVSJ.
The common port of the UVSJ connects to the input of the PA-18 amplifier.
The output of the preamp goes to the power insertion block in the house.
From there, on to the set or splitter depending on your situation.

[bincitybandit]

Here is 20 feet:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...2df9df5ef74b32

Here is 40 feet:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...2df99aaf3b00bb

Is there not a small-medium size antenna on the market that will get all of these stations?

Here is an other way to do it. With 1 coax down lead.

Install the YA1713 as I recommended , 20 to 40 feet antenna height is Ok for reception. Most likely WDAZ-Tv channel 8 will be received through the back side of the antenna.

Install a Antennas Direct CS4 , with the reflector screens removed , with the reflector screens removed the CS4 will receive 2 directions , the front of the antenna and back of the antenna.

Aim either side of the CS4 at about 117 degree magnetic compass direction for reception of , KXJB , KVLY , WDAY.
And the other side of the CS4 will aimed at about 308 degree magnetic compass direction for the reception of KMDE PBS.

Connect the YA1713 and CS4 together with a UVSJ = UHF/VHF Separator/Joiner. Type the letters uvsj in the solidsignal search box.

The CPA-19 preamp is connected to the output of the UVSJ so the CPA-19 preamp is amplifing both antennas.

Install the CS4 UHF antenna at no less then 40 feet above the ground.

For 1 Tv connected use no splitter.

For 2 Tv's connected use a , HFS-2D , 2 way splitter.

For 3 Tv's connected use a , HFS-3D , 3 way splitter.

Buy the HFS splitters at , http://www.hollandelectronics.com , http://www.solidsignal.com.

[GroundUrMast]

The DB4e has a bit more than 2 dB gain advantage over the CS4. So the CS4 would only be a fair substitute for the DB4e.

Also, removing the reflector screen from the CS4 dramatically reduces the gain of the antenna. You may find you have trouble with reliable reception of the signals to the east with the CS4 modified. If you choose to modify the CS4, be careful to save all the pieces so you can restore the antenna to it's original configuration.

With the DB4e aimed to east , and PBS is on channel 13 to the east and PBS is on channel 25 to the west , but the reflector screen is on the DB4e blocking reception to the west and a UVSJ is connected , does that mean that the DB4e's reflector screen will need to be removed to receive PBS channel 25 to the west?? And if so , will the gain of the DB4e with out a reflector screen be greater then the CS4 with out a reflector screen.

KXJB UHF 38 and KVLY 44 are strong signals , well at least compared to the other UHF signals.

And WDAY UHF 21 is the same as WDAZ VHF 8 that will most likely be received through the back of the YA1713 antenna.

And the UHF channels are being received now with the omnidirectional antenna and most likely it is not doing as good of job of receiving the UHF channels as the CS4 and DB4e will do with their reflector screens removed.

You stated before that KJRR , VHF channel 7 FOX was being received with the omnidirectional antenna.

The ->VHF part<- of the Channel Master omnidirectional antenna might have gone bad , A new omnidirectional antenna could be installed and see what happens.

[GroundUrMast]

If reliable reception is the goal, buying another omnidirectional antenna would be throwing good money away.

The simplest solution in this case is a Winegard HD7698P, NTE U-106 rotator, NTE TB-105 Thrust Bearing and an Antennas Direct PA-18 preamp. I'm not a fan of rotators, but the conditions in this case call for high gain and directivity which forces us to face reality.

My first post in this thread is similar in function though with some performance tweaks and the rotator would not affect UHF reception.

@bincitybandit, if you can not or will not consider a rotator, there are other ways to go about this. Though a bit more complex, still within the skill set of the DIY'r. It's up to you of course.

Here is my final recommendation. It is a no antenna rotor recommendation.

That will ' lock in ' the reception.
_________________________________

Install the YA1713 with the CPA-19 preamp aimed at about 195 degree magnetic compass direction.

For 1 Tv connected use no splitter.

For 2 Tv's connected use a , HFS-2D , 2 way splitter.

For 3 Tv's connected use a , HFS-3D , 3 way splitter.
______________________________

Install a Winegard HD7697P antenna with a CPA-19 preamp aimed at about 116 degree magnetic compass direction.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

For 1 Tv connection use no splitter.

For 2 Tv's connected use a , HFS-2D , 2 way splitter.

For 3 Tv,s connected use a , HFS-3D , 3 way splitter.

Buy the HFS splitters at , http://www.hollandelectronics.com , or , http://www.solidsignal.com.

The YA1713 / CPA-19 preamp and HD7687P / CPA-19 preamp are 2 Separate antenna systems and are not connected together on to one coax.

The antenna systems and coaxes are Separate all the way to the Tv/s location/s and the Separate antenna systems coaxes are connected to a Remote control A/B antenna switch at each Tv location.http://www.mcmelectronics.com , #32-4425 , or , http://www.radioshack.com , #15-1968 .

A/B antenna switching is Channel Surfing Friendly , press the button on the hand held remote control , change antennas and keep on channel surfing.

[bincitybandit]

Getting back to this old project, I have come across this product:

Antennas Direct Combiner Box

This says it is passive on the UHF side only.

I have a VHF antenna pointed toward KJRR and it is recieving it. Could this box combine my two antennas onto the one existing down-lead? If so, how would I split the signal in the house to feed two TVs?

[GroundUrMast]

The term 'passive' refers to power for a preamp. In this case, power can pass from the common port to the UHF port, but not the VHF port. This is an important consideration when deciding how to power a preamp but it's not relevant as to what type antenna is to be connected to each port.

The Antennas Direct UVSJ, like other UVSJs filters out VHF signals fed into the UHF port and conversely, filter out UHF signals fed into the VHF port. If you connect a combination VHF/UHF antenna to the UHF port, the VHF capability of the antenna will be blocked. If the same combination VHF/UHF antenna is connected to the VHF port, the UHF capability of the antenna will be wasted.

[bincitybandit]

I'd like to thank all those that have offered their advise in this thread.

Originally Posted by teleview

You stated before that KJRR , VHF channel 7 FOX was being received with the omnidirectional antenna.

The ->VHF part<- of the Channel Master omnidirectional antenna might have gone bad , A new omnidirectional antenna could be installed and see what happens.

Apparently, this was the problem. I ordered a new MS-2000 antenna and hooked it up and I'm now receiving all stations. So apparently, yes, the VHF part of the antenna failed.

I went this route because it seemed the cheapest and easiest, and it turned out well for me. Hopefully, this one doesn't fail after 3 months like the last one.

Thanks again for all the insight...................

Very good , the VHF part was bad. As I suggested in post #13.