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Old 20-Jun-2015, 8:36 AM   #21
lspecski
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Join Date: May 2015
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Thanks for your help so far. I hope this makes sense to the people on the forum because it makes no sense to me. First, here is my report again:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...82309f356ad8c6

So I took the advice of Rabbit73 and built a dipole antenna which immediately brought me my most problematic channels, 6 and 12. Running only that antenna channel 6 and 12 were picked up on both of my TVs, one is a 15 foot run and is an old model Olevia now defunct. The second TV, about a 75-100 ft cable run is a Samsung Plasma. I am getting contradictory things happening on both TVs. On the Olevia, I get everything except Virtual channel 10 and 29 (Real Channels 34 and 42) including the VHF-Low channels. The TV provides me the signal strength and they are coming in at between 40 and 50%. On the Samsung. I am receiving everything. The only issue is that Channel 6 which was fine without combining the UHF/VHF signals is now very distorted, but 10 and 29 are perfect but I cant pick them up on my Olevia TV. I can only assume that this has to do with the diplexer I am using. It is a satellite diplexer. The part that has me confused is that if it was the diplexer wouldn't it cause the same issues with both TV's.

Last thing, I added an amplifier to the Dipole antenna, but that only made matters worse. My priority right now is to get Channel 6 on the Samsung. The second TV is less used and we stream more from there.

Any help is appreciated.

Last edited by lspecski; 20-Jun-2015 at 8:39 AM. Reason: Added a little clarity
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Old 20-Jun-2015, 11:51 AM   #22
rabbit73
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Quote:
So I took the advice of Rabbit73 and built a dipole antenna which immediately brought me my most problematic channels, 6 and 12. Running only that antenna channel 6 and 12 were picked up on both of my TVs
Glad to hear that the dipole worked. I didn't expect 12 also.
Quote:
The only issue is that Channel 6 which was fine without combining the UHF/VHF signals is now very distorted, but 10 and 29 are perfect but I cant pick them up on my Olevia TV.
The problem does seem to be in the combining.
Quote:
I can only assume that this has to do with the diplexer I am using. It is a satellite diplexer.
Tell us more about the diplexer. What does it say on it? Can you show us a photo?
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Last edited by rabbit73; 20-Jun-2015 at 1:54 PM.
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Old 20-Jun-2015, 3:13 PM   #23
rabbit73
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Is this your setup now?


Code:
AmzAnt > coax > ControlBox >                            15 ft coax > Olevia
                            \ UHF                      /
                             UVSJ diplexer > splitter >
                            / VHF                      \
CH 6 Dipole Antenna > coax >                            75-100 ft coax > Samsung
Your new TVFOOL report shows stronger signals. You could be overloading the preamp in the Amazon antenna and the tuner in the Olevia TV. The extra length of coax for the Samsung acts like an attenuator at 6 dB per 100 ft for UHF.

I don't know the signal attenuation for the attic location, but outside your strongest signal has a Noise Margin of 69.9 dB even before adding Amazon antenna gain and its preamp gain of 36 dB.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HDTV-Outdoor...-/310464020303
http://www.ebay.com/itm/150MILES-OUT...item19d492f779



Interpreting Noise Margin in the TV Fool Report
http://www.aa6g.org/DTV/Reception/tvfool_nm.html
Attached Images
File Type: jpg NMChartC.jpg (71.3 KB, 679 views)
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Last edited by rabbit73; 20-Jun-2015 at 6:26 PM.
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Old 20-Jun-2015, 3:21 PM   #24
lspecski
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Yes that is the setup. The splitter though is a powered unit that came with the Amazon Antenna.

This was my comment on the diplexer question I posted it in the wrong spot.

It's actually a Dish Network triplexer, I have the dipole on the first spot and I've tried the other antenna on the 2nd and third spot.

http://pimages.solidsignal.com/ES175284_1_zoom.bmp

I also tries a Radio Shack Splitter combiner with less luck. Radio Shack also has a UHF/VHS diplexer that I was going to try. Good to see Radio Shack back in business.

http://comingsoon.radioshack.com/vhf...l#.VYV_AmRViko
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Old 20-Jun-2015, 3:31 PM   #25
lspecski
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Sorry, I was incorrect, the set up that worked best so far was having the Amazon antenna go through through the powered splitter box that came with the Antenna, I added the diplexer after that and have made a straight run to the TV. I haven't introduced a splitter to the 2 TVs just yet.
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Old 20-Jun-2015, 3:46 PM   #26
rabbit73
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Quote:
It's actually a Dish Network triplexer, I have the dipole on the first spot and I've tried the other antenna on the 2nd and third spot.
That's the wrong diplexer. You need the Radio Shack Model: 15-2586 Catalog #: 1502586
http://comingsoon.radioshack.com/vhf...l#.VYWIkjjbLrc
or this:
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=zuvsj
http://www.3starinc.com/uvsj_uhf_vhf...or_joiner.html
http://mjsales.net/products/tru-spec...ant=1198505857 passes power on VHF side

All UVSJs are diplexers, but not all diplexers are UVSJs. The term diplexer is broader.
http://www.hollandelectronics.com/ca...-Diplexers.pdf
Notice that the Holland MODEL DPD2 lumps together all TV signals from VHF/UHF, CATV 40 - 806 MHz.

A satellite diplexer combines VHF and UHF TV signals, instead of keeping them from interfering with each other as in a UVSJ.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 20-Jun-2015 at 7:59 PM.
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Old 20-Jun-2015, 3:59 PM   #27
lspecski
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Diplexer

I am fortunate to still have a local Radio Shack, I'll let you know later to today. Does it matter if the diplexer goes before the Amazon powered box or after. If I go after, I would have only one Output from the Amazon Able antenna and then adda splitter after the diplexer to go out to both TVs. I am taking it one step at a time though, trying to get all channels on both TVs before adding a splitter to the mix.
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Old 20-Jun-2015, 4:49 PM   #28
rabbit73
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Quote:
Does it matter if the diplexer goes before the Amazon powered box or after.
Yes, do it like my diagram in post 23. If the UVSJ diplexer went between the Amazon antenna and its power control box, you would need a special power passing UVSJ diplexer and you would still have only one output for a TV, so you would still need a splitter.

Some UVSJs pass DC power on the VHF side, and some pass DC power on the UHF side for a preamp. It so happens that the RS UVSJ passes power on the UHF side, but I still think you should put the UVSJ diplexer AFTER the Amazon power control box.
Quote:
If I go after, I would have only one Output from the Amazon Able antenna powered box
That's all you need for the diplexer UHF input.
Quote:
then add a splitter after the diplexer to go out to both TVs.
That's the correct way to do it.

If your 150 mile Antenna control box looks like the one in the attachments, then it does have two outputs. I still suggest you do it like the diagram in post #23, but you can try it at you own risk like this:

Code:
Amazon Ant > coax >                                  15 ft coax > Olevia
                   \ UHF DC pass                    /
                    RS UVSJ diplexer > control box >
                   / VHF (15-2586)                  \
CH6 Dipole > coax >                                  75-100 ft coax > Samsung
If you can't find a Radio Shack store that has one, there are some 15-2586s on ebay; check the model number and age. Antennas Direct also sells a UHF/VHF diplexer that passes DC power on the UHF side:
https://www.antennasdirect.com/store...Combiners.html
Attached Images
File Type: jpg RSuvsj (2).jpg (341.5 KB, 314 views)
File Type: jpg 150miAntControl.jpg (26.0 KB, 282 views)
File Type: jpg 150miAntDiag.jpg (22.6 KB, 271 views)
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Last edited by rabbit73; 20-Jun-2015 at 7:30 PM.
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Old 21-Jun-2015, 4:53 AM   #29
lspecski
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Rabbit73, your design in post 23 works for the Olevia without the splitter. The Olevia gives me signal strength of between 70-80% for Channel 6when I added the splitter, it dropped to 44%. On the Samsung which is the longer cable run, I am getting all of the channels perfectly except channel 6.

I don't know if it makes a difference, but we are having a lot of rain today and I assume that this can be affecting the signal.

I an only think that it is still an issue of the diplexer. I bought the Radio Shack that has power passing on the UHF side. I tried the diplexer before the control box to take away the issue of the splitter, but the signal for channel 6 dropped to 40% on the Olevia and couldn't be picked up at all on the Samsung.

On another post, I was given the following advice on the combining of signals "If you want to combine a 7-69 antenna with a 2-6 antenna, you need the ZHLSJ, not the ZUVSJ.

If you use the UVSJ, then you end up with a device that combines 2-13 on the VHF port with channels 14-up on the UHF port which is not what you said you needed."
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Old 21-Jun-2015, 6:50 AM   #30
lspecski
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Update, all is good, Rabbit 73, your plan worked with the Radio Shack Diplexer and the splitter. With a bit of movement of the Antenna, I am getting a 78% signal. The problem with my Samsung was that I had a bad connection with my coaxial cable which was ok transmitting the UHF signal but wouldn't transmit the VHF signal.

My only remaining issue but a very small deal is that I am getting WHYY PBS on the Olevia with a 68% signal, but not getting anything on the Samsung. But I get an alternate PBS out of NJ. I am going to buy a better splitter and may take the advice on a different combiner, but as of now, all is good.

Your idea to build the diplexer saved everything and I can't believe how simple it was.
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Old 21-Jun-2015, 6:17 PM   #31
rabbit73
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Quote:
Update, all is good, Rabbit 73, your plan worked with the Radio Shack Diplexer and the splitter. With a bit of movement of the Antenna, I am getting a 78% signal.
Thank you for the good news; you made my day.
Quote:
The problem with my Samsung was that I had a bad connection with my coaxial cable which was ok transmitting the UHF signal but wouldn't transmit the VHF signal.
I have seen that happen with cable signals. The low cable channels were very weak, but the high channels were OK. The coax shield was not making good contact at the connector. The low frequency signals could not jump the gap, but the high frequency signals could, because there was enough capacitance at the gap to pass them with little loss.
Quote:
My only remaining issue but a very small deal is that I am getting WHYY PBS on the Olevia with a 68% signal, but not getting anything on the Samsung.
If you want 12 a little better, you can make a folded dipole for 12 and combine it with the folded dipole for 6 using a HLSJ. Then use a UVSJ to combine them with the UHF signals.

Channel 12, 204 to 210 MHz, center frequency 207 MHz.
5540/207 = 26.8 inches

Code:
AmzAnt > coax > ControlBox >                   15 ft coax > Olevia
                            \ UHF             /
 Channel 12 Antenna >        UVSJ > splitter >
                     \ H    / VHF             \
                      HLSJ >                   75-100 ft coax > Samsung
                     / L                         
  Channel 6 Antenna >
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html

Last edited by rabbit73; 21-Jun-2015 at 7:09 PM.
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Old 21-Jun-2015, 7:55 PM   #32
mikelessard
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The Terk has the same exact rabbit ears our TVs had in the 60s/70s when we were watching analog VHF-Lo (and those worked). The instructions tell you to extend them halfway for VHF-Hi which I did at our location. So my best educated guess says is it does do VHF-Lo.
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