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Old 6-Mar-2011, 2:59 AM   #1
sobamaflyer
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Mobile, AL - One Station Not Coming In

I recently purchased an antenna (amplified) and hooked it up to my new TV. I have had no use whatsoever of OTA signals (only Cable and Sat.). I pointed the antenna in the direction of all our stations.

My initial scan produced more than 30 stations including all major networks except 1, Fox 10 WALA. What's odd is this station is much closer (~20 miles) to us than most of the others and right in line w/ the rest of them.

Can someone tell me if I've missed something in this equation?

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...c77aa98dbd3b70

Thank you, Travis
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Old 6-Mar-2011, 4:11 AM   #2
GroundUrMast
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With out knowing the make and model of the antenna you are using, I can only offer an experienced guess...

WALA-Fox is broadcast on real VHF channel 9, per your report. (The virtual channel is a source of confusion, having no relevance when selecting an antenna.)

Your antenna could easily be a UHF only design, making reception of channels 2 through 13 less likely. If you need a combination UHF/VHF indoor antenna, consider the information HERE. An RCA ANT121 is one option I could recommend. I would not recommend an amplified antenna due to the strong signal levels at your location. If it were me, I would mount an RCA ANT751 outside.

A commonly repeated myth is that all digital TV is now broadcast on UHF frequencies. That is far from true.

You say:
Quote:
...I have had no use whatsoever of OTA signals...
That sounds like you don't want to watch OTA... I'm confused. Were you trying to say you had never used OTA service until now?
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Last edited by GroundUrMast; 6-Mar-2011 at 4:34 AM.
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Old 6-Mar-2011, 12:28 PM   #3
sobamaflyer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GroundUrMast View Post
You say:

That sounds like you don't want to watch OTA... I'm confused. Were you trying to say you had never used OTA service until now?
Right, I have HAD no use of OTA signals...... For one reason or another for at least 15 years I've only had cable or Sat and never considered reigning in the free TV waves floating around. A 2 year old and our lovely economy has one searching for ways to trim a few pennies wherever possible So I've jumped in here for the first time getting TV OTA and amazed what I came up with. My only experience was as a child watching fuzzy snowy pictures trying to adjust rabbit ears.

....I purchased an antenna from ebay, it's a LAVA HD-2805, has a small gain amp in-line w/ a rotator head, is about the size of my Sat. dish. I'm truly amazed at what it DID bring in and if not for this one missing station I'd not be posting here looking for help. So far every other station tuned in is crystal clear, and I do get (2) stations below the channel 9 freq. that I'm looking for (3.1, 3.2, 3.x, 4.x).

Now just for information at this moment I have this antenna on a stand I hobbled together (temporarily) sitting in the 2nd story closet where all my network wiring comes in. It is pointed out a little window in the direction of the stations on the graph. I have it wired to the little amp and then into the port that goes directly to my LR TV. All cabling is RG6 (I built my house 2 years ago, I put it there so I'm certain )

My next step (pending suggestions here) is to go outside and mount this antenna in place of my Direct dish. Could 1 single exterior wall (sticks and stone) block signals?

Thank you so much for the advice, Travis
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Old 6-Mar-2011, 3:12 PM   #4
Dave Loudin
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Based on testimonials here and on other forums, if I were you, I'd not waste any more time with the LAVA. GroundUrMasts's suggestions will help you pull in the Fox station and all the other ones reliably.
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Old 6-Mar-2011, 6:44 PM   #5
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Re. LAVA antenna: You already bought it. Though I would not recommend it to anyone, under any circumstances, there is no reason for me to speak ill of it here. You are obviously receiving signals with it, though not all that you should have access too.

If you move it outside, it may provide reception of channel 9, or the internal amplifier may be overloaded by the stronger signal levels it will be subjected to.

As far as how much signal will be reflected or absorbed by the materials in your home construction, I can only say that all materials will have some effect. You can most certainly expect to have access to higher signal strength and quality outside the building.

I stand by my suggestion of an RCA ANT751 pointed SE and no amplifier.
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Last edited by GroundUrMast; 6-Mar-2011 at 6:46 PM.
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Old 6-Mar-2011, 8:14 PM   #6
sobamaflyer
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Thank you for the advice, since I do have it and it is working pretty well I'm going to try it outside, first w/o the amp and then with. If all else fails with it, I'll definately try the RCA route and put it outside.

I halfway expected to replace my Sat. dish w/ one of these at the start anyway, just wanted to try it inside first for reference to see what it did
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Old 7-Mar-2011, 2:22 AM   #7
Dave Loudin
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Are you sure you can use the LAVA without the amplifier? Typically, if you unplug an amplifier, it does not let much, if any, of the original signal pass.
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Old 7-Mar-2011, 3:16 AM   #8
sobamaflyer
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it's a separate little box, I could easily take it out of line and plug the rg6 directly to my tv feed.
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Old 7-Mar-2011, 3:50 AM   #9
GroundUrMast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sobamaflyer View Post
it's a separate little box, I could easily take it out of line and plug the rg6 directly to my tv feed.
Many if not most amplified antennas place the amplifier inside the antenna, the 'little separate box' is usually just a power insertion devise.

Hopefully the documentation is clear as to whether or not the amplifier can be bypassed.

Dave is correct to raise the issue...
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Last edited by GroundUrMast; 7-Mar-2011 at 3:53 AM.
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Old 7-Mar-2011, 5:18 PM   #10
John Candle
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Television reception.

I never recommend the lava antennas to any one , they are cheap flimsy toys. . Read and understand this about Real , Digital Tv Channels , Virtual Digital Tv Channels , Analog Tv Channels . http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=695

Last edited by John Candle; 30-Mar-2011 at 4:59 AM.
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Old 30-Mar-2011, 1:47 AM   #11
sobamaflyer
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Update and followup questions:

Thank you all for the advice above. After my initial posts ( a couple weeks ago) I did the following: I mounted the [dreaded] LAVA antenna on a pole in the attic, it's about 6' above the 2nd floor (ceiling) in the open space of our attic, pointed at about 120°. Ultimately I'd put this about 25'± off the ground.

I temporarily ran a 60' coax to the distribution panel for our network. I bought a signal amp from RS (I went looking for a different/better antenna to try from someplace easier to return, this was a shot in the dark). Well it worked! I put that in-line instead of the amp that came w/ the LAVA and my signals all jumped up at least 20-30% each, my troublesome channel above now came in just fine.

FF a couple weekends and I get around to cleaning up my wiring job, I ended up plugging in my 60' cable into the old incoming Sat. connections near the ant. in the attic. Admittedly this adds about 70-100' of wire and at least 2 more junctions. After that the PBS channels (high freq.) are pixellating some but the majors we really want are still fine.

Now last couple days we are getting brief but annoying pixellation and skipping on the majors, today reception is simply awful.

......I do plan on trying to eliminate 100'+ of wire and those couple of junctions this weekend. But can you all advise me why I might experience such a sudden worsening of signal? Tips, opinions, etc are welcome and appreciated.

Travis
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Old 30-Mar-2011, 2:02 AM   #12
sobamaflyer
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FWIW I bought a Wineguard Booster to see if it was better than the RS one, everything dropped by 10-15% with it, so I returned that.

....is my next step a better Ant? (The RCA, which I actually convinced my cousin to buy on recommendations here?) I'm still a little confused by the fine fine fine, bad reception.

Thank you
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Old 30-Mar-2011, 2:13 AM   #13
GroundUrMast
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Quote:
If it were me, I would mount an RCA ANT751 outside.
That is still my position.

The attic is an unpredictable reception environment. The Lava antenna continues to earn no respect. Amplified noise and distortion is just loud noise and distortion. I don't know how to say this more emphatically... You do not need ANY amplifier, AT ALL. That your situation seems to be improved by one implies there is a problem elsewhere in your system. The most glaring problems are the Lava antenna and the attic mounting location. You are also right to suspect cabling issues. Get rid of unneeded splitters and shorten the cable runs were possible. Be on the lookout for loose or bad connections.

As the leafs come on the trees, signal levels are going to drop, and multipath routes will change. You can overcome much of that by avoiding the attenuation and reflections caused by your roof and attic materials.

I would not be shouting this at you if I were in person, just a determined, confident tone.
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Last edited by GroundUrMast; 30-Mar-2011 at 3:01 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 30-Mar-2011, 2:55 AM   #14
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A well intentioned rant

TV reception and drinking water are a little bit alike. With drinking water, you need a clean source. That's true of TV reception too. TV signals can be mixed with noise and interfering signals, just like mud and pollution can foul water. Drinking water can be pumped through pipes. TV signals can be amplified so they can be sent through cable and splitters. A big high pressure pump can't make clean water at the bottom of a muddy empty hole and an amplifier can't make a clean noise free signal with the output of an antenna that is too small or blocked by trees hills or buildings.
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If the well is dry and you don't see rain on the horizon, you'll need to dig the hole deeper. (If the antenna can't get the job done, an amp won't fix it.)

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Old 30-Mar-2011, 4:58 AM   #15
John Candle
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Tv Antennas and Reception

I agree with GUM. The helpers here at tvfool are here to present the truth and the facts. I am 62 years old now and I know that many humans are like , please don't confuse me with the truth and the facts.
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Old 30-Mar-2011, 10:46 AM   #16
sobamaflyer
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I will humbly be ordering the suggested RCA Ant. today and mounting it in the place formerly occupied by my Sat. Ant. .

I will take the amp out of the line and report back.

Thank you
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Old 30-Mar-2011, 7:41 PM   #17
John Candle
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Tv Antennas and Reception

When question askers say they will be using the satellite antenna mount then I know there will be trouble. These mounts are put in odd places at odd angles so as to have the sat. dish look at a place in the sky. Outdoor Tv antennas need to be level with the ground , not pointed at the sky , not pointed at the ground , not cocked at odd angles or pointed in the wrong direction or having the front of the antenna blocked by the roof of the house. Unpluging the power supply of a amplifier is not taking the amp out of the line. Here at tvfool we get person after person that thinks that unpluging the antenna amplifier is taking the amp out of the circuit and some how it's all going to work Ok.

Last edited by mtownsend; 30-Mar-2011 at 11:13 PM. Reason: Edited for inappropriate content
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Old 30-Mar-2011, 8:00 PM   #18
GroundUrMast
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With the stations SE of this location, reuse of a J-pole (usually located on the S side of the building) seems to be a prudent plan. Just be sure to avoid aiming into an obstruction such as your roof, outbuilding, neighbors house... etc.

Also, be sure not to reuse satellite system components that block or attenuate OTA frequencies. Some parts look like splitters, but are not.

Wishing success...
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If the well is dry and you don't see rain on the horizon, you'll need to dig the hole deeper. (If the antenna can't get the job done, an amp won't fix it.)

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Last edited by GroundUrMast; 30-Mar-2011 at 8:03 PM.
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Old 30-Mar-2011, 8:23 PM   #19
sobamaflyer
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Edited for non-topic content

Last edited by sobamaflyer; 13-Apr-2011 at 12:56 PM.
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Old 13-Apr-2011, 1:09 PM   #20
sobamaflyer
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In the interest of full disclosure, and possibly to aid anyone else trying to solve reception problems in the Mobile, AL area........ my problems were bone headed, not hardware related (but I try to be man enough to admit when I'm an idiot).

I ordered the RCA ant as I posted previously. The night before it's arrival I went upstairs [to my pole mounted, in the attic, LAVA ant. with a RS amplifier that was already proven more effecive than a Weingard I tried] at my wife's pleading behest to try and tweak the antenna so a show would be watchable.

While up there I hear "ooo, that's much better", hmm, didn't do much but ok, I trod back down 19 stairs. By the time I get there it's Blip....uuuhh....picack....blip... crap, so I go back upstairs (repeat before). So the 3rd time I do this my 2.5 year old has followed me up there and thought it was funny to shut Daddy in the attic. It's about now I notice that the GFI outlet that my amplifier is plugged into has no cute little light when the light switch is off (by now you see where this is going....)

So, I severely admonish my electrician (that'd be me ) and unscrew the light bulb by the door. A couple weeks and a returned RCA ant to Amazon later and we have yet to see a Blip or Picack.

So, moral of the story, even analytical otherwise adept people make stupid mistakes but hopefully only once and my story will get others to doublecheck all connections and power delivery

Travis
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