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Old 26-Nov-2013, 11:59 PM   #1
TVNoob
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Seeking advice on antenna(s) for first timer in Seattle

Hi all, first a huge shoutout to the members and moderators on this site. There is some great info to be found here...I hope I can some day contribute to the community.

My need of the moment - I'm cutting the Comcast cord (their encryption of basic service sent me over the edge). I'm looking for advice on the best antenna or combination of antennas for my location. From what I can tell I have a decent shot at quite a few channels. Ideally I would like to pull in all with an NM > 0.

Here is my report:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...46ae0e02f7cf3e

If I'm interpreting the results correctly, the biggest grouping of transmitters is to the south and is spread over a 60-degree arc. But there are a handful of channels to the north that would be in range...except they are in the opposite direction from the majority. If I were to give up the idea of capturing that northern group, would I be able to capture those spread across the south with a single antenna?

I live in a single story ranch house, with a low pitch hip roof. Ordinarily I would like to place the antenna(s) in the attic for aesthetic reasons. I can almost stand up inside the attic, so with ceiling joists at 8' height above ground level, the roof peaks at about 14' above ground. But the house has 2 solar PV arrays out on the roof, so that no doubt represents some major obstructions to good reception if the antennas were placed inside the attic. One array of 10 PV panels is on the south slope of the roof, the other array consists of 9 panels on the west slope of the roof. The top edges of the PV arrays sit level with the ridge of the roof.

I appreciate any info and insight...would it help to provide an image showing the location of the PV arrays? Thanks!
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Old 27-Nov-2013, 9:00 AM   #2
StephanieS
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TVnoob,

Welcome! We've all been there with our first set up!

In looking at your plot, a couple things jump out at me. First, the Bellingham signals KBCB and KVOS at magnetic 340 and 73.6 miles. How important are those to you? I ask because those two signals will likely require a dedicated long range UHF antenna on your roof like the Antennas Direct 91xg or a comparable beam or bowtie design to receive reliably. The bad news for KBCB and KVOS, a preamp to help overcome signal losses in your setup is likely not an option for you. With 76 db signals in the air, it is a recipe for overload.

Secondly, your reception situation is very favorable. If the attic installation is your choice. KVOS and KBCB will be gone. The only chance to receive those signals will be outdoors and with as clear as possible pathway to magnetic 340. In the attic scenario, I would say your weakest signal to expect reliable reception of would be KUSE-LD @ 28.6 db. I am going to assume you are in a wooded area, as such, people who might be able to receive weaker signals in the attic, do so with less obstruction by the trees. This is really going to hamper your weaker signals.

Attic installations are not preferred by anyone here. Especially in wooded areas as you are battering the signals you are trying to receive. First, they have to get through the evergreens to the antenna and second, they have to penetrate through your roof. Going through the roof can create unreliable signals and drop outs even with excellent signal strengths. TV signals don't do well passing through solid materials.

I would encourage you to mount on the roof. KVOS and KBCB are signals that outdoors is the only chance at successful reception.

How many TVs do you intend to feed from the antenna? How long is your coax run? Are you fighting 150' tall evergreens in every direction? Before I can make an suggestion I need a bit more info.

SS

Last edited by StephanieS; 27-Nov-2013 at 9:30 AM.
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Old 27-Nov-2013, 9:18 PM   #3
GroundUrMast
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All the major networks are being broadcast from Queen Anne and Capitol Hills, so I'd suggest you start with a basic antenna such as the RCA ANT-751. Avoid the use of an amplifier unless you need to run an unusually long run of cable and are feeding many tuners.

Attic mounting may or may not work for you, it will be a matter of 'try it and see'. The issue is not simply a concern about signal strength, but signal quality. Consider the difference between the image seen though high quality glass, versus the distorted image seen though scratched, dirty or translucent glass. While there may be a small difference in the total amount of light passed, your ability to see clearly is not just a function of getting light though, but passing the light with the least amount of scattering and reflection. Attic construction materials can scatter and reflect radio waves to the point that they can't be understood by the TV tuner even though enough signal power is getting though.

The ANT-751 is not likely to give you reliable reception of the signals from Orcas Island. StephanieS is quite right, reliable reception of KVOS will be far more likely if you opt for a high gain antenna outside, clear of obstructions. (I enjoy the MeTv programing carried by KVOS, so I have gone to the effort to receive it. I have an Antennas Direct 91XG + RCA TVPRAMP1R preamplifier pointed at Orcas Island.)

The near 0 NM signals are just low power translator signals (repeating KIRO or KCPQ) so there is no need to invest extraordinary effort for those.

The KCPQ signal on real CH-13, from Gold Mountain is not needed, you have an easy shot at their duplicate signal on real CH-22 from Capitol Hill. Folks are usually very committed to receiving religious programing or have no interest at all. The only other signal from Gold Mountain is the TBN affiliate on real CH-14.

My hope is that you will get reliable reception of the signals from Tiger Mountain as well, but until you try the ANT-751 you won't know for certain. Tiger mountain has ION and some less known network offerings that may be of interest. So, you may need to consider a second antenna, there are several way to incorporate multiple antennas into a system;
http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=2882
http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=820
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Old 1-Jan-2014, 8:14 PM   #4
TVNoob
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Thanks for suggestions!

Thanks to StephanieS and GroundUrMast for their suggestions. My first NY's resolution is to finish my antenna project.

I did purchase an ANT-751 and am convinced it needs to mount on the roof, not inside. My 2 choices seem to be either on the chimney, or directly to the roof. I prefer to not put any additional holes into the roof. What are the pros and cons of installing on a chimney?

I'm also convinced I don't need to worry about transmitters to the north, or the ones on Gold Mountain (headings 249°/250°). I would like to pick up the transmissions from Tiger Mountain (heading 130°) but will try to do so with my single antenna...and then follow up on Ground's advice if a 2nd antenna is warranted.

I've attached a view of my roof showing the chimney, as well as views from the chimney facing headings 196° and 130°. I'm interested in any observations or suggestions from the community. Thanks again, and Happy New Year!
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Photo markup_Rooftop looking north1.pdf (199.3 KB, 521 views)
File Type: pdf Photo markup_Chimney view_heading 196.pdf (199.6 KB, 514 views)
File Type: pdf Photo markup_Chimney view_heading 130.pdf (305.8 KB, 525 views)
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Old 1-Jan-2014, 9:46 PM   #5
GroundUrMast
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Chimney mounting may be less than ideal if the chimney is active. Smoke from wood is going to shorten the life of the antenna dramatically. Oil and NG are also corrosive, but to a lesser degree. Still, you may weigh the cost and elect to replace the antenna more frequently. It's certainly less expensive than a roof replacement and repair of leak damage.

You may improve reception and will lengthen the life of the antenna if you use a mast that is taller than 5'. Home Depot stocks 10.5' chain-link fence top rail that works very well as an antenna mast. You can cut it if you don't need the full section, but the further up you go, the less your antenna will be subject to smoke/exhaust.
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Old 1-Jan-2014, 10:22 PM   #6
TVNoob
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Thanks GroundUrMast. What if I install the ANT-751 so it sits below the top of the chimney, say 2' below the flue opening? That would place the antenna 14' above ground. Would there be a problem with the antenna facing away from the chimney, towards the south, in terms of the bricks reflecting signal into the back side of the antenna?
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Old 2-Jan-2014, 12:19 AM   #7
GroundUrMast
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Give it a try... smoke rises, so the antenna will be in a benign location. The ANT-751R lends itself to wall mounting, or the side of the chimney in this case.

Be open to experimenting...
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