TV Fool  

Go Back   TV Fool > Over The Air Services > Help With Reception

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 13-Aug-2012, 5:19 AM   #1
jelwell
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 19
Question Help in San Diego, CA

I'm in San Diego community of Rancho Penasquitos. I installed an Antennas Direct ClearStream 4 on a 10 foot chimney mount. That puts it probably 30 or 40 feet high. I pointed it at 150 degrees - aiming for my primary goal of KPBS.

Here's my TVFool report. I used the interactive map to get an accurate location:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...9900fbd4edb6d4

I bought a 50 foot outdoor RG6 coax cable that runs from the antenna through a bushing into my house. I cut the cable, to fit, and crimped a new connector on the end. I tested that the signal on my TV did not degrade due to poor crimping. The coax runs into a surge protector then to my TiVo.

Unfortunately I barely get KPBS. It goes in and out. In the mornings it'll come in around a strength of 30 - 36, around 34 is the cut off point of problems on my TV. KNSD is even worse.

Here's my signal strength, as recorded during a partly cloudy evening:
Channel : CallSign: peak
2-1 : KCBSDT : 0
2-3 : KESQDT7 : 0
4-1 : KNBCDT : 0
4-2 : KNBCDT2: 0
5-1 : KTLADT: 0
5-2 : KTLADT2: 0
5-3 : KTLADT3: 0
6-1 : XETVDT: 24
6-2 : XHGC-SD: 23
7-1 : KABCDT: 0
7-2 : KABCDT2: 0
7-3 : KABCDT3: 0
8-1 : KFMBDT: 94
8-21 : KFMBDT2: 95
9-1 : KSDXLD: 0
10-1 : KGTVDT: 77
10-2 : KGTVDT2: 79
10-15 : KGTVDT15: 79
12-1 : XEWTDT: 0
15-1 (Frequency 30) : KPBSDT: 23
15-1 (Frequency 42): KESQDT8: 0
15-2 (Frequency 30) : KPBSDT2: 26
18-3 : ? : 0 (My TiVo "found" this channel, but has no call sign nor info for it)
24-1 : KVCRDT: 0
24-2 : KVCRDT2: 0
24-3 : KVCRDT3: 0
24-4 : KVCRDT4: 0
28-1 : XHJKDT: 0
29-1 : XHTITDT: 0
30-1 : KPXNDT: 0
30-2 : KPXNDT2: 0
30-3 (Frequency 38) : KPXNDT3: 0
30-3 (Frequency 30) : ?: 21
30-4 (Frequency 30) : ?: 21
30-9 (Frequency 30) : ?: 21
30-10 (Frequency 30) : ?: 20
31-1 : KVMDDT: 0
31-2 : KVMDDT2: 0
31-4 : KVMDDT4: 0
31-5 : KVMDDT5: 0
31-6 : KVMDDT6: 0
31-7: KVMDDT7: 0
31-8 : KVMDDT8: 0
31-9 : KVMDDT9: 0
31-10 : KVMDDT10: 0
33-1 : XHASDT: 0
33-2 (Frequency 42): KESQDT4: 0
33-2 (Frequency 34): XHASDT2: 0
36-1 (Frequency 36): KBNTLD: 0
36-1 (Frequency 36): KDTFLD: 0
36-2 (Frequency 36): KDTFLD2: 0
36-2 (Frequency 36): KBNTLD2: 0
36-3 (Frequency 36): KDTFLD3: 0
39-1 : KNSDDT: 0
39-2 : KNSDDT2: 0
39-3 : KNSDDT3: 0
40-3 (Frequency 40): ?: 0
40-4 (Frequency 40): ?: 0
42-1: KESQDT3: 0
42-2: KESQD10: 0
49-1: XHDTVDT: 0
49-2: XHDTVD2: 0
50-1 (Frequency 48): KOCEDT: 0
50-1 (Frequency 50): KSDYLD: 0
50-2 (Frequency 48): KOCEDT2: 0
50-2 (Frequency 50): KSDYLD2: 0
50-3 (Frequency 48): KOCEDT3: 0
50-3 (Frequency 50): KSDYLD3: 0
50-4 (Frequency 48): KOCEDT4: 0
51-1: KUSIDT: 0
54-1: KAZADT: 0
54-2: KAZADT2: 0
54-3: KAZADT3: 0
54-4: KAZADT4: 0
57-1: XHUAADT: 0
57-2: XEQ: 0
63-1: KBEH-DT : 33
63-2: KBEH-DT : 33
63-3: KBEH-DT : 34
63-4: KBEH-DT : 34
63-5: KBEH-DT : 34
63-6: KBEH-DT : 34
63-7: KBEH-DT : 33
63-8: KBEH-DT : 32
69-1: KSWBDT : 36
69-2: KSWBDT2 : 31
69-3: KSWBDT3 : 28

Ideally I'd like to receive one each of the major networks & KPBS. Fox, CBS, NBC, ABC, CW & KPBS. Currently I get CBS & ABC really well. I get KPBS with some regularity, NBC rarely and the CW never.

Here's a highlight of the channels I'd like to get (signal strength may vary as I took another reading):
Fox 69-1 : 29
CBS : 8-1 : 93
NBC : 39-1 : 0
ABC : 10-1 : 61
CW : 6-1 : 0
PBS : 15-1 : 38

I'd prefer the local channels, but an Los Angeles stations would be fine. I'm considering purchasing a second antenna and pointing it north.

As a bit of background. When I first installed the antenna I had it on a 5 foot mast. I added another 5 feet, hoping that would help. My TiVo did notice, and add a handful of channels when I did that - but most of them have 0 signal strength. Kind of odd. Additionally I had tested the antenna in the attic - that didn't seem to work very well at all.

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Joseph Elwell.
jelwell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-Aug-2012, 6:25 AM   #2
thom
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 67
hmmm

I'm about 10 miles to your North, shooting around Bernardo Mountain, and getting everything but CW (CW has always been a problem).

Your LOS VHF stations are fine, so I wonder if you're too close to the shadow of your 1Edge. As a test, you could spin around to 328 and see if you fare any better. The other thought is to pull the surge protector and see if that helps. This of course assumes your antenna isn't pointing directly into a tree.

As an aside, if PBS is your goal, there are excellent PBS stations in LA. KOCE and KLCS should be doable, KCET is a sometimes, and KVCR is a roll of the dice. They all have subchannels, and play different programming at any given time.
thom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-Aug-2012, 6:49 AM   #3
jelwell
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by thom View Post
Your LOS VHF stations are fine, so I wonder if you're too close to the shadow of your 1Edge. As a test, you could spin around to 328 and see if you fare any better. The other thought is to pull the surge protector and see if that helps. This of course assumes your antenna isn't pointing directly into a tree.
I'll try rotating to 328, I guess that will be a good test on whether I can get LA stations. I live on the west face of Black Mountain. But there is a ridge to the south of me - that's likely my 1Edge.

I'll try pulling the surge protector out - unfortunately I haven't done any grounding on my setup yet. I need to run copper wire to my electrical box, but it's quite a route to get there. When I do get it properly grounded, I imagine the signal will drop again - if that's the problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thom View Post
As an aside, if PBS is your goal, there are excellent PBS stations in LA. KOCE and KLCS should be doable, KCET is a sometimes, and KVCR is a roll of the dice. They all have subchannels, and play different programming at any given time.
LA PBS stations would be fine too. All I need is "PBS kids" for my little ones - the children's shows that air in the morning.
Joseph Elwell.
jelwell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-Aug-2012, 2:05 PM   #4
thom
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 67
grounding

Grounding your mast should not impair your signal at all. One of the regulars on the board, GroundUrMast, knows a great deal about grounding. We've recently had a discussion about both grounding and surge protectors here: http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=10888

Personally, I'll be curious if you can get access to your service ground. SDGE has done a great job of zipping mine up tight.
thom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-Aug-2012, 3:09 PM   #5
thom
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 67
also

Keep an eye on your VHF stations as you slew the antenna. Those are a bonus with the ClearStream which is billed as a UHF antenna. At 328 on the boresight, they should still be in a spot where the antenna will pick them up, plus you've got a strong LOS signal for those which certainly helps.

For LA, you probably want to use KOCE or KBEH as your benchmark signal. Don't expect perfect reception for all things LA out of the box, though. This is just a test to see if you can move the needle pointing in a different direction. You might also be surprised to get a backscatter reflection of the SD stations from the ridges to your NW.

Having an understanding spouse watching the signal strength as you move the antenna around will save a great deal of time.
thom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-Aug-2012, 1:02 AM   #6
jelwell
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 19
I haven't tried rotating my antenna yet. BUT I noticed today, with slight showers/cloud, I'm getting the CW just fine. In fact I've got a peak of 63 for channel 6-1 XETVDT. The highest peak I had recorded was a 24 during a crystal clear day. But often get 0.

That makes me think 1 of two things is going on. Too much back talk from northern channels on 6-1, which the clouds are helping block. Or the clouds are diffracting the southern signal in a way that is helping my antenna pick up the signal even better. I have no clue which it is though.

Unfortunately no change for 39-1 KNSDDT. I'm getting a peak of 0.
I'm also getting a peak of 26, but averaging closer to 16 on 51-1 KUSIDT. Which is considerably higher than 0.
Joseph Elwell.
jelwell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-Aug-2012, 3:00 AM   #7
thom
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 67
yes, it can be hard to find time to get back up on the roof. Sunday is my roof day.

The atmosphere can do some fascinating things with TV signals:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropospheric_propagation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropospheric_scatter

There was a day last week I was pulling 100's from LA, 100 miles away.
thom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-Aug-2012, 7:33 AM   #8
teleview
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Tv Reception.

The following is a Teleview Recommendation for Broadcast Tv Reception.

Connect a - Known To Be Good - continues length of coax ,

No couplers ,

No splitters ,

No ground block ,

No amplifiers ,

No Tivo ,

to the CS4 antenna that is aimed at about 150 degree magnetic compass direction.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

Connect the coax Direct to a Tv that has a Digital Broadcast Tv Tuner.

Channel Scan for Digital Broadcast Tv Channels.

What is reception like now??

Last edited by teleview; 13-Aug-2013 at 10:52 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-Aug-2013, 1:40 AM   #9
jelwell
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 19
Pointed the antenna to 328 True North today.
Station
MOVIES 13-3 21.13dB
BOUNCE 13-2 21.28dB
KCOP 13-1 21.25dB
FOX-SD 11-2 21.20dB
KTTV-DT 11-1 14.76dB
LWN-TV 10-2 26.67dB
KGTV-DT 10-1 26.37dB
MeTV 8-2 29.17dB
KFMB-TV 8-1 29.13dB
KEYT SD 3-2 27.52dB
KEYT HD 3-1 27.52dB
KEBH channels:
63-8 don't care
63-7 don't care
63-6 don't care
63-5 don't care
63-4 don't care
63-3 don't care
63-2 don't care
63-1 don't care
SOAC 40-5
Enlace 40-4
JCTV 40-3 17.1dB
TCC 40-2
TBN 40-1
LATV 38-3
Telefut 38-2
Univisi 38-1
Air 35 UCSDTV
Univisi 17-1

Any listings above that don't show the signal strength - that's because it's a pain to look it up on my TV. So I listed all the channels I pull in, but only signal strengths for the ones I might be interested in actually watching.

I'm using my iPhone as a compass. I swear i'm doing it wrong though. When I'm in my house 328 True North seems to point towards the neighbors house (which is north of me). But when I'm up on the roof i seem to be pointing across the street, seemingly more west than north.

I will try another reading.
Joseph Elwell.
jelwell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-Aug-2013, 2:06 AM   #10
jelwell
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 19
This time I pointed it closer to 185 True North. If I remember correctly, when my friend helped me by setting the antenna on a chair in the front yard, that's closer to the angle we pointed it. Because I mostly pointed it the direction that "South" goes on the North-South street I live on.

My results:
64 DTV Air Stations
1 Air
KCBS-HD 2-1
KTLA 5-1 23.40dB
KTLA 5-2
This TV 5-3
KFMB 8-1 32.94dB
MeTV 8-2
KGTV-DT 10-1 28.55dB
LWN-TV 10-2
KZSD 10-15
KPBS 15-1 20.65dB
V-Me 15-2
Univisi 17-1
iON 30-1
qubo 30-2
ion-Life 30-3
Shop 30-4
QVC 30-5
UCSDTV 35
Univisi 38-1
Telefut 38-2
LATV 38-3
KNSD-HD 39-1 17.81dB
CoZi-tV 39-2
TBN 40-1
TCC 40-2
JCTV 40-3 19.4dB
Enlace 40-4
SOAX 40-5
XHBJ 45-1
PBS-HD 50-1 21.12dB WOW that's Los Angeles' PBS Station! Awesome
PBS-OC 50-2
Daystar 50-3
World 50-4
KVEA-HD 52-1
Exitos 52-2
XHUAA 57-1
KJLA-DT 57-1
XEQ 57-2
VFACE 57-2
VNA-TV 57-3
SET 57-4
SGTV 57-5
VBS-TV 57-6
STV 57-7
IBC-TV 57-8
ZWTV 57-9
e CH 57-10
KLCS 58-1 20.19dB
KLCS-2 58-2 18.87 dB
KLCS-3 58-3
KLCS-4 58-4
KBEH 63-1
KBEH 63-2
KBEH 63-3
KBEH 63-4
KBEH 63-5
KBEH 63-6
KBEH 63-7
KBEH 63-8
KSWB 69-1 17.71dB
Antenna 69-2 17.43dB
This TV 69-3 18.13dB


That was an excellent angle. I got 3 different PBS stations. Need to poor over these results some.
Joseph Elwell.
jelwell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-Aug-2013, 2:21 AM   #11
jelwell
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 19
Ok, this last direction is a keeper!
I get all the major networks, and a whole lot more.
I broke out the main networks:
Network Channels
ABC 10-1
CBS 8-1 (also LA's 2-1 almost)
NBC 39-1
FOX 69-1
PBS 15-1, 50-1 Greater LA, 50-2 OC, 58-1 LA
CW 5-1 The L.A. station!
iON 30-1

This is awesome. Will need to move the cable back to my surge protector, and through my TiVo. Hopefully I won't lose much in the transition.
Thanks,
Joseph Elwell.
jelwell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-Aug-2013, 3:01 AM   #12
jelwell
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by jelwell View Post
Ok, this last direction is a keeper!
I get all the major networks, and a whole lot more.
I broke out the main networks:
Network Channels
ABC 10-1
CBS 8-1 (also LA's 2-1 almost)
NBC 39-1
FOX 69-1
PBS 15-1, 50-1 Greater LA, 50-2 OC, 58-1 LA
CW 5-1 The L.A. station!
iON 30-1

This is awesome. Will need to move the cable back to my surge protector, and through my TiVo. Hopefully I won't lose much in the transition.
Thanks,
Joseph Elwell.
Unfortunately I lost a lot of stations when I connected my cable through my surge protector and then to my TiVo.

Of the important ones I lost:

NBC 39-1
FOX 69-1
CW 5-1

Does this mean I need an amplifier? And should it go next to my antenna (outside) or can it live right before the surge protector? The RG6 cable that goes outside is probably 30 feet or less long.
Thanks,
Joseph Elwell.

Last edited by jelwell; 12-Aug-2013 at 3:17 AM.
jelwell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-Aug-2013, 5:31 AM   #13
jelwell
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 19
All the signal strengths I posted today were from my Samsung TV. They seem to range from 13 to 32 dB.

The peak signal strengths I posted previously were from my TiVo and they range from 0 to 95. WOW almost exactly a year ago today.

I have no clue what these numbers mean, and what number I need to pull in a reliable signal.
Thanks,
Joseph Elwell.
jelwell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-Aug-2013, 10:30 PM   #14
GroundUrMast
Moderator
 
GroundUrMast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Greater Seattle Area
Posts: 4,773
Given the distance and path profile, reliable reception of the LA signals is unlikely. I believe you'll find the LA signals will be intermittent, depending on weather / atmospheric conditions. Reliable reception of the San Diego signal should be easier though.

Most of the local signals are broadcast on channels in the UHF band, which makes the CS-4 a good choice. However, many folks in the San Diego area find they need a second antenna capable of High-VHF reception in order to see KFMB and KGTV (real CH-8 & CH-10).

I would face the CS-4 about 150 per a real compass. (I have found the iPhone compass to be wildly unreliable.) I would also add an Antennacraft Y5713 pointed at 204. Combine the two antennas into a common down-lead using an Antennacraft 10G221 preamplifier.

If you want to chase the LA signals, consider building a separate antenna system using the highest performance UHF and H-VHF antennas and preamps available... but understand that you may never achieve 100% reliability from that far away.
__________________
If the well is dry and you don't see rain on the horizon, you'll need to dig the hole deeper. (If the antenna can't get the job done, an amp won't fix it.)

(Please direct account activation inquiries to 'admin')
GroundUrMast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-Aug-2013, 5:08 PM   #15
jelwell
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 19
GroundUrMast,
Can I use the Antennacraft 10G221 preamplifier if I don't buy a VHF antenna? I might change my mind later, but I've never had any problems picking up KGTV and KFMB.

I borrowed a real compass from a friend of mine. It's amazing how stable the reading on it is, compared to my iPhone. I need to climb back up on the roof sometime soon.
Thanks,
Joseph Elwell.
jelwell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-Aug-2013, 10:47 PM   #16
GroundUrMast
Moderator
 
GroundUrMast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Greater Seattle Area
Posts: 4,773
If you don't need to use a separate VHF antenna, consider the 10G201 or RCA TVPRAMP1R. http://www.amazon.com/RCA-TVPRAMP1R-...=cm_cr_pr_pb_t

Be sure you've got the antenna aimed correctly... You may not need an amplifier at all.

Tivo tuners seem to have a reputation for being poor at over the air reception... that might be helped with a preamp.

Some surge protectors are also trouble makers, I don't use them as a 'first line of defense' when grounding my antenna system. I do the grounding outside... http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=901
__________________
If the well is dry and you don't see rain on the horizon, you'll need to dig the hole deeper. (If the antenna can't get the job done, an amp won't fix it.)

(Please direct account activation inquiries to 'admin')
GroundUrMast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2-Sep-2013, 5:56 PM   #17
jelwell
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 19
Ok, I bought the RCA preamp. Here's my numbers, as reported by TiVo.

ABC 10-1 32
CBS 8-1 32
NBC 39-1 0
FOX 69-1 32
PBS 15-1 32
CW 5-1 0
iON 30-1 0

Granted there have been storm clouds all over Southern California. So that might explain the loss of L.A. stations. Unfortunately nothing peaks higher than 32. Even some of the stations that used to get far above that. I will need to check my angle, but I used a known good compass this time.
Joseph Elwell.
jelwell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-Sep-2013, 6:05 PM   #18
jelwell
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 19
Apparently the problem is the OTA Tuner in the TiVo. From reports the TiVo's tuner doesn't handle multipath rejection very well.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...12#post8329712

This makes it sound like I need to buy a new antenna that handles multipath rejection better.
Joseph Elwell.
jelwell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-Jun-2015, 9:51 PM   #19
jelwell
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 19
New antenna - finally.
ABC 10-1 74
CBS 8-1 71
NBC 39-1 48
FOX 69-1 45
PBS 15-1 58
CW 6-1 44
iON 30-1 0

The new antenna is a Winegaurd HD7697P which is directional so it seems to be helping cut down the multipath. Would be nice to point my old antenna north (towards Mt Wilson in Los Angeles) to get some of the LA and Orange County channels that my TV can get with the old antenna. But splitting the two together with such a wide range of channels would probably not work well. I might just run another cable up to the old antenna and plug it directly into my TV (instead of the TiVo). My TV has a significantly better antenna and can receive tons of channels...
Joseph Elwell.
jelwell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-Jun-2015, 9:50 PM   #20
jelwell
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 19
The only local station that doesn't come in reliably (today) is 51.1. KUSI. But that channel is mostly syndication and local news. Would be nice to get it, but definitely not a must have.
Joseph Elwell.
jelwell is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Go Back   TV Fool > Over The Air Services > Help With Reception


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT. The time now is 3:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © TV Fool, LLC