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Old 5-Aug-2015, 6:55 PM   #1
musicman
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 8
TV reception in the Gravenhurst Ontario area

Hi:

In December 2012, I posted the question below and received the answer posted below:

HI:
I am renovating my parent's cottage and would like to see what TV reception I can get using OTA equipment.

Here is my location http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...cc49bec0740911

I am completely new to this and am looking for help relating to:
what antenna I should buy,
what channels I might get,
is the make of the TV important.

I have an old TV tower, which is about 20 feet off the ground, and has an old antenna on it.
The wire attached to it is the kind which is brown in colour and has 2 wires embedded on each edge in the brown plastic.
I could attach a new antenna to the old tower if that would help.

The cottage is only used from May to October.

Thank you in advance for any help that you might be able to give.
Thanks,
musicman39@gmail.com

RESPONSE:



For reception of ,

CFTO-TV Analog Channel 21 CTV ONE.

CIII-DT Digital channel 7 GTN Global.

CHCH-DT Digital channel 23 IND.

CKVR-DT Digital channel 10 CTV TWO.

Install on the tower , a Winegard HD7696P antenna aimed at about 220 degree magnetic compass direction.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

No preamplifier is required.

For 1 Tv connection use no splitter.
___________________________________________

Here are places to buy antennas and etc. , http://www.saveandreplay.com , http://www.trentondistributors.com , http://www.amazon.ca , http://www.solidsignal.com , http://www.winegarddirect.com.

______________________________________________

The Tv should be a Tv that receives both the Digital Broadcast Tv Channels and Analog Broadcast Tv Channels.

Replace All of the Antenna and inside wiring with New RG-6 coax wiring.
__________

As always , trees and tree leaves do a real fine job of reducing or blocking Tv reception and so do buildings and other obstructions.

It is best to install the antenna at a location that has the least amount to no amount of obstructions of any type or kind in the directions of reception.

At your location that is , west and south.

QUESTION:

I have finally completed the renovations and am using a Sony TV which is about 5 years old. I have attached a coaxial cable to my old TV antenna (I think it is about 1970 vintage)
I am receiving 2 digital stations- CIII-HD (Global) and CH-CH HD - and one analogue staion -CTV-.

CIII-HD (Global) has perfect reception always.
CH-CH HD reception is great most of the time although sometimes I don't get any reception at all.

CTV analogue reception can be good but sometimes gets very fuzzy.

Have there been any changes as far as reception is concerned from when I asked in December 2012?

Should I still install a Winegard HD7696P antenna aimed at about 220 degree magnetic compass direction?

Why does CH-CH HD work perfectly sometimes and then not give any picture at other times?

Thanks again for all of your help.

Regards,

Terry
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Old 6-Aug-2015, 1:48 AM   #2
Greenish Apple
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Location: SE Ontario Canada
Posts: 28
You could try the HD7696P aimed at 280 degree magnetic to try to get 3 stations but you would need a rotator to get the others. Most of them show CTV programming.

You TVFool Report link is broken, I tried to do a report but only to the center of town.
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...8e034ba60b4b1f

-GA-
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Old 7-Aug-2015, 2:24 AM   #3
musicman
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Posts: 8
Gravenhurst Reception

Hi Greenish Apple:

Thanks for your quick response.

You mentioned that I might try a HD 7696P at 280 degrees to try to get 3 stations. Are these 3 stations- in addition- to the three I already get (CIII-HD, CH-CH HD, and CFTO analogue) or are they the same ones.

Do you have any idea why I sometimes get CH-CH HD perfectly and then at other times not at all.

Thanks again for your help.

Terry
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Old 7-Aug-2015, 11:47 AM   #4
rabbit73
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The HD7696P is discontinued; the series is now 7694, 7697, and 7698.
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Old 7-Aug-2015, 11:58 AM   #5
ADTech
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Quote:
Do you have any idea why I sometimes get CH-CH HD perfectly and then at other times not at all.
That is the nature of digital reception. If the signal is good enough, it's perfect. If it's not good enough, reception fails. The transition zone is very narrow, perhaps 1-2 dB either in signal power or signal to noise ratio

If your reception when it's "good enough" is right near the edge of the digital cliff, it takes very little reduction in signal power or quality to kick you off that cliff. A small shift in atmospherics, a bit of extra interference, or anything of that sort will cause reception to fail.
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Old 7-Aug-2015, 5:56 PM   #6
Greenish Apple
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ADTech, would a Antenna's Direct DB8e pointed at 220 magnetic be a good choice? The OP should still get CFTO and maybe CHCH & Global?

-GA-

Last edited by Greenish Apple; 7-Aug-2015 at 6:03 PM. Reason: Changed name of antenna
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Old 7-Aug-2015, 6:09 PM   #7
musicman
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Hi Rabbit73:

Thanks for your quick response.

"The HD7696P is discontinued; the series is now 7694, 7697, and 7698. "

I had tried looking for a place to buy an HD7696P but they were all discontinued, now I know why.

If I get one of the new series am I likely to get more stations than the three I currently receive? ie CHIII-HD, CH-CH HD and CTV (CFTO)?

Thanks again, this is a wonderfully helpful site.

Regards,

Terry
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Old 7-Aug-2015, 7:22 PM   #8
rabbit73
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Quote:
If I get one of the new series
The 7696 was part of that series. The 7694 is the smallest with the lowest gain; the 7698 is the largest with the highest gain. Winegard has been making the selection of antennas and preamps smaller, so they dropped the 7696 because it wasn't much different than the 7694 and 7697.
Quote:
am I likely to get more stations than the three I currently receive? ie CHIII-HD, CH-CH HD and CTV (CFTO)?
I can't give you a good answer, because I am not able to make an accurate analysis; your TVFOOL link in the first post doesn't work because the center part is missing.

Can you redo your TVFOOL report for your exact address (which will not show) or exact coordinates (which will be shortened)?

At his point it looks like your reception problem is difficult, because your best signals are in different directions and the rest are impossibly weak.

In the report that Greenish Apple did in post #2 for Gravenhurst, I don't see CHIII-HD, but I do see CIII-DT digital Global on real channel 7. There are other CIII-DTs listed but you probably don't mean them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIII-DT
scroll down to Transmitters

I don't see CH-CH HD, but I do see CHCH-DT digital on real channel 15 with an impossible Noise Margin of -26.0 dB and a Tropo signal path if I click on Current database: All channels in your report. However, if I click on Pending* applications included: All channels I see CHCH-DT on real channel 23 with a very good signal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHCH-DT
scroll down to transmitters

CFTO-TV analog on real channel 21 is your strongest signal. You should be able to receive it even if your antenna is aimed at CIII and CHCH. If not, try between the two.

CKNY-TV and CKVR-DT are fairly strong, but they are in different directions which would require a rotator, and your Sony would need to be able to add a channel after scan.

You should replace the brown 300 ohm twin lead with RG6 coax. If the generic report for Gravenhurst is fairly accurate the 7694 might have enough gain for your 3 strongest signals IF there aren't any trees or other buildings in the signal path. The upgrade would be the 7697 which has a little more gain but its beamwidth is a little narrower which makes aiming more critical. However, even the big 7698 can't "see" signals through trees.

The coax shield should be grounded with a grounding block that is connected to the house electrical system ground with 10 gauge copper wire for electrical safety and to reject interference. For further compliance with the electrical code (NEC in US), the mast should also be grounded in a similar manner to drain any buildup of static charge, but the system will not survive a direct strike.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 7-Aug-2015 at 8:44 PM.
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Old 7-Aug-2015, 8:28 PM   #9
musicman
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Will I get more than 3 channels I already get?

Hi Rabbit73:

Thanks again for the quick response.

I currently get 3 stations CIII-HD, CH-CH HD, and CFTO analogue with my old antenna.

If I buy a 7694 or 7697 or 7698 am I likely to get more stations?

Also, I can't seem to locate a dealer for Winegard here in the Toronto Canada area.
The stores here have antennae by Digiwave. Will they perform as well as a Winegard?

Thanks again.
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Old 7-Aug-2015, 8:49 PM   #10
rabbit73
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Quote:
If I buy a 7694 or 7697 or 7698 am I likely to get more stations?
I answered that in my previous post. I can't give you a better answer without a better TVFOOL report, and a report about trees.
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Old 7-Aug-2015, 9:49 PM   #11
musicman
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my mistake

Rabbit73:

For some reason I did not scroll down far enough to read the second part of your answer. I'm sorry I missed it.

I redid my TVFool report using my exact address. It is in a rural area and not close to any city. There are tall trees all around my cottage. Here are the results :

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...8e03254f5a6a88

You are correct I did mean CIII-DT and CHCH-DT.

I have replaced most of the 300 OHM twin lead with RG6 coax but will replace all as you suggested.

I'll check out where to buy a grounding block and attach it as you suggested.

Thanks again for you help and patience.
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Old 7-Aug-2015, 10:33 PM   #12
rabbit73
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Quote:
For some reason I did not scroll down far enough to read the second part of your answer. I'm sorry I missed it.
No apology necessary; I did several edits to add more info.

Thanks for the new report for dad's cottage. It's probably more accurate than the generic Gravenhurst report, even though it is only resolved to street level and not an exact address or coordinates. Unfortunately, the signals didn't look as good in the new report, but they got better when I remembered to click on pending.

The trees are bad news; see attachment 1.



Quote:
The stores here have antennae by Digiwave. Will they perform as well as a Winegard?
I don't have any personal experience with Digiwave antennas, but the guys on the Canadian forum aren't impressed with them:
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/81-o...-antennas.html
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/81-o...ml#post2062786
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/81-o...ml#post2067897

Quote:
Also, I can't seem to locate a dealer for Winegard here in the Toronto Canada area.
Save and Replay in Mississauga and other locations is a Winegard dealer:
http://www.saveandreplay.com/

BestBuy stores in Toronto sell Antennas Direct antennas.

If you can find a fairly clear path thru the trees, you have a good chance for CIII-DT on real channel 7 and CHCH-DT on real channel 23, and maybe even CFTO even though it's now listed as weaker. Real channel 7 is a VHF-High channel which is why you need a VHF/UHF combo antenna.

It might be possible to use an Antennas Direct C2V. The UHF figure 8 UHF double loop could be used for 23 and 21 and the "V" VHF dipole for 7; no guarantees because of the trees.
http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/...0040b973a5en02
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Trees and UHF2.JPG (101.4 KB, 286 views)
File Type: jpg grounding block2.jpg (31.9 KB, 264 views)
File Type: gif NEC Grounding.gif (16.5 KB, 259 views)
File Type: jpg GROUNDING Wendell R Breland (2).jpg (229.3 KB, 259 views)
File Type: jpg musicmanTVFcottage2.JPG (86.2 KB, 585 views)
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 8-Aug-2015 at 12:11 AM.
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Old 8-Aug-2015, 12:53 AM   #13
ADTech
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenish Apple View Post
ADTech, would a Antenna's Direct DB8e pointed at 220 magnetic be a good choice?
There's nothing at 220 to pick up.

Quote:
The OP should still get CFTO and maybe CHCH & Global?

-GA-
CFTO - Depends on the trees and whether or not the antenna is aimed at that station.

CHCH - Easily, unless the trees kill it before it gets to the antenna.

CIII (Global) - Probably. VHF reception on the UHF antennas often peaks at weird angles. I have not examined the DB8e on VHF 7 since I don't have any channel 7 stations within range of anywhere I've tested.
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