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Old 29-Jun-2014, 2:51 AM   #1
VapeAddict
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Complicated Antenna setup in Eastern NC--Please help

Hello Fine Folks,

I have been very impressed with all the helpful information that you guys provide in helping us that don’t have a clue what we are doing…I’m hoping that you will help me as well. :-)

I have a bit of an unusual situation and don’t know which way would be the best way to approach. I think that my best option will be to roof mount with a roof tripod (VMP TR-60 5’ heavy duty tripod, unless you have a better recommendation for a tripod). I would prefer not to get involved with the use of guy wires, so I guess that I would be limited to a 10’ mast. I am open to other suggestions as well, but do not think that I am willing to spend thousands of dollars to erect a tower system. The peak of my roof is about 20 feet, so with the tripod and 10’ mast my antenna system should approach 30’. My TV Fool Radar Plot for 30’ is listed here: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e1c62c0a9c913a

I would like, at the very minimum to pick up at least one stable signal from each of the following networks: ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, CW & ION. To do this, I will need a VHF capable antenna to pick up at least one station. Since no single direction supplies all of these networks, I assume that would require the use of a two antenna system UNLESS there is a UHF/VHF antenna that provides a decent signal off the back end. All that being said, my station locations in question are as follows:Raleigh, NC(300-305 degrees)/Greenville,NC (61-68 degrees) & Jacksonville, NC (112-121 degrees). The stations to the NW are about 50 miles & the ones to the E are about 25 miles.

To make this even more difficult, this will be hooked up to an OTA DVR (the Nuvyyo Tablo—I haven’t used it yet, but it looks pretty awesome—you can check it out at tablotv.com)…so using a rotor system is not possible.

Abbreviations used below: AD = Antennas Direct, CS = ClearStream, WG = Winegard

I think the closest thing to a single antenna solution might be the AD DB8e pointed in two directions, NW & E with an added dipole kit to receive the VHF station--which is available here... http://www.antennasdirect.com/store/...o-Fit-Kit.html
If I use the dipole kit, would it be best to use it on the side pointed E? Also, will it still be strong enough to pick up the NW stations when in a split configuration? What compass heading would you aim each panel? Since it would have a simple dipole antenna, would I need to use some type of FM trap?...if so, which?
One other thought on the DB8e, would installing it without the reflectors and only pointing it NW be of any benefit...making it act more like an omni-directional UHF antenna?...or would pointing it only NW with the reflectors still on allow pickup of the rear stations to the E since they are fairly strong?

Do you have any better recommendations?

I have also considered the WG HD7698P pointed NW along with a CS 1, CS 2 OR an AD DB2e pointed E.

Another consideration is the AD 91XG pointed NW along with a RCA ANT751r OR a CS 2v pointed E.

Please also recommend any combiners or pre-amps that would be necessary. The total cable run should be between 50 to 75 feet from the antenna to the OTA DVR…there will not need to be any other cables run to supply other TVs since distribution from the Tablo DVR is done through a wifi network.

For coax, would you use RG6 Quad shield with a solid copper clad core? ...or would a solid copper core be necessary?

I know that I have asked lots of questions…but I wanted to be as thorough as possible in my post so I would not have to bother you too many times.

Thank you so much!

Last edited by VapeAddict; 30-Jun-2014 at 10:11 AM.
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Old 30-Jun-2014, 11:50 AM   #2
StephanieS
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Greetings Vapeaddict,

It's nice to see you on an excellent track with your study of your situation!

A tower and guy wires are completely unnecessary. You have access to Raleigh Durham as well as Greenville/Jacksonville signals. Both could be serviced from a tripod mounted on your roof with a 10' mast.

It sounds as if you aren't picky about which market you receive. Do you have a preference? The stronger Greenville/Jacksonville signals arrive at three different headings as you have noted. Raleigh Durham signals have the benefit of being clustered together within in six degrees of each other to make, as you noted things less complicated.

For ease, I'll focus on Greenville/Jacksonville for the moment. Indeed a DB8e would be an excellent option for this situation. The VHF add on kit from antennas direct would also be a good choice. ADtech ought to be able to confirm that the VHF kit will work fine with the DB8e in split heading configuration. Your VHF signals are pretty good, so this should be plenty to receive.

Orientate the DB8e's first panel to magnetic 55 degrees (NE). The other I would aim to a heading of 120 (SE). No adjustment for VHF signals to my knowlege as the kit mounts to the back of the DB8e. I would expect all Greenville/Jacksonville signals to be reliable. No preamp is necessary.

There has been discussion about removing the panel screens on the DB8e in the past to make it more omni-directional. This does require some drilling. ADtech can again provide guidance here if this is worth it in this case.

Regarding coax, I bought a custom run of 100' solid copper core RG6 quad shielded, which has served me fine on my 91XG. Others will be able to answer your question a little more in depth. I'm not a coax guru. lol

I would set things up a little differently if you wanted to go for Raleigh. In this case, I'd have separate antenna systems with one feeding Greenville/Jacksonville and the other Raleigh you would then switch between them with a A/B switch in your home.

The easy in this case though is Greenville/Jacksonville and you can likely be quite successful with one antenna aimed properly.

Cheers.
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Old 30-Jun-2014, 12:41 PM   #3
VapeAddict
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StephanieS View Post
Greetings Vapeaddict,

It's nice to see you on an excellent track with your study of your situation!

A tower and guy wires are completely unnecessary. You have access to Raleigh Durham as well as Greenville/Jacksonville signals. Both could be serviced from a tripod mounted on your roof with a 10' mast.

It sounds as if you aren't picky about which market you receive. Do you have a preference? The stronger Greenville/Jacksonville signals arrive at three different headings as you have noted. Raleigh Durham signals have the benefit of being clustered together within in six degrees of each other to make, as you noted things less complicated.

For ease, I'll focus on Greenville/Jacksonville for the moment. Indeed a DB8e would be an excellent option for this situation. The VHF add on kit from antennas direct would also be a good choice. ADtech ought to be able to confirm that the VHF kit will work fine with the DB8e in split heading configuration. Your VHF signals are pretty good, so this should be plenty to receive.

Orientate the DB8e's first panel to magnetic 55 degrees (NE). The other I would aim to a heading of 120 (SE). No adjustment for VHF signals to my knowlege as the kit mounts to the back of the DB8e. I would expect all Greenville/Jacksonville signals to be reliable. No preamp is necessary.

There has been discussion about removing the panel screens on the DB8e in the past to make it more omni-directional. This does require some drilling. ADtech can again provide guidance here if this is worth it in this case.

Regarding coax, I bought a custom run of 100' solid copper core RG6 quad shielded, which has served me fine on my 91XG. Others will be able to answer your question a little more in depth. I'm not a coax guru. lol

I would set things up a little differently if you wanted to go for Raleigh. In this case, I'd have separate antenna systems with one feeding Greenville/Jacksonville and the other Raleigh you would then switch between them with a A/B switch in your home.

The easy in this case though is Greenville/Jacksonville and you can likely be quite successful with one antenna aimed properly.

Cheers.
Thank you for the reply Stephanie,
...however, by going with the Greenville & Jacksonville markets I will not be able to receive CW which I really want. I could get all stations that I want by going with Raleigh & Greenville though...BUT I can not use an A/B switch when hooking up to an OTA DVR. You don't think that the DB8e will be strong enough to split between Raleigh & Greenville because of the added distance involved in reaching Raleigh? If this would work, it would be the ideal situation.

If I have to give up a station that I want, I would rather give up ION...that would mean that I would need to pull from the Raleigh market only. I would guess that the combination antenna that would be needed in this case would probably be the AD 91XG with a Antennacraft Y10-7-13 pointed to 305 degrees OR POSSIBLY a WG HD7698P alone?...or how about the DB8e with dipole attachment used in full 8 bay mode? Any guess which of those three choices would be better? Also, if I use the combo 91XG setup, what would be the best combiner to use to join them together?

Thanks!

Last edited by VapeAddict; 30-Jun-2014 at 12:51 PM.
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Old 30-Jun-2014, 1:56 PM   #4
StephanieS
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If CW is a priority, then Raleigh may be the best option for UHF. Now is where we start to have fun with putting together a system that gives you the most options.

Further if an A/B switch is off the table, then in a single downlead configuration I would do a two antenna system:

Antennas Direct DB8e: No VHF kit. UHF reception only. Recommend both panels dedicated to Raleigh for reception of everything out of that market except ABC. Raleigh's signals are sufficiently weak to require the DB8e's full gain and focus on those signals. Orientate antenna to magnetic 314 (NW). The 91XG I wouldn't use here because the 1-edge conditions and the DB8e's larger reception surface.

Antennacraft HBU11: This is a small suburban combination VHF/UHF antenna. For this application VHF reception is all that will be used. This will focus on the stronger VHF signals WCTI ABC from Jacksonville/Greenville along with WNCT CBS from the same market. This antenna has a "wide net" so to speak meaning it's beam is reasonably wide. Orientated to magnetic 100, I'd expect see reliably both ABC and CBS. In this configuration a Y10713 is overkill for these VHFs.

In effect, we are using two antennas to combine the best of the two markets into the most serviceable set up. Also, unless using beams like the 91XG, various antennas have differing beamwiths. This means they can receive well if not pointed dead on a transmitter. The HBU11 as mentioned above allows for a wider beamwith thus the ability to be 20 degrees off each VHF from Jacksonville/Greenville.

Purchase a Antenna's Direct EU385CF signal combiner. Run jumper from DB8e to UHF input, run jumper from HBU11 to VHF input. Both signals are combined into one coax coming into your system.

The major networks I would expect in this configuration:
ABC WCTI Jacksonville/Greenville
CBS WNCT Jacksonville/Greenville
CBS WRAL Raleigh
CW WLFL Raleigh
NBC WNCN Raleigh
FOX WRAZ Raleigh
MyN WRDC Raleigh

You may see others off the back from Jacksonville/Greenville, that depends on local factors though. As as baseline, the above list is what I'd expect.

When mounting on the mast put DB8e on the top, with the HBU11 4' below. Also, you don't need a preamp in this configuration.
Cheers.

Last edited by StephanieS; 30-Jun-2014 at 2:12 PM.
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Old 30-Jun-2014, 2:16 PM   #5
VapeAddict
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Thank you so much! You are awesome
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Old 30-Jun-2014, 3:34 PM   #6
StephanieS
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No worries.

Make sure your pathways to your headings are as clear as possible when selecting your mounting location

If you have foliage towards magnetic 100, upgrade to a HBU22 or HBU33. The HBU11 is great as long as it is line of sight. If it doesn't have that, upgrade.

I have the HBU11's competitor in the ANT751. Thirty degrees of axis and it does fine with my local ABC affiliate on RF 13.
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Old 30-Jun-2014, 9:17 PM   #7
Brice52
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cw in greenville

[QUOTE=VapeAddict;44676]Thank you for the reply Stephanie,
...however, by going with the Greenville & Jacksonville markets I will not be able to receive CW which I really want. I could get all stations that I want by going with Raleigh & Greenville though...BUT I can not use an A/B switch when hooking up to an OTA DVR. You don't think that the DB8e will be strong enough to split between Raleigh & Greenville because of the added distance involved in reaching Raleigh? If this would work, it would be the ideal situation.

If I have to give up a station that I want, I would rather give up ION...that would mean that I would need to pull from the Raleigh market only. I would guess that the combination antenna that would be needed in this case would probably be the AD 91XG with a Antennacraft Y10-7-13 pointed to 305 degrees OR POSSIBLY a WG HD7698P alone?...or how about the DB8e with dipole attachment used in full 8 bay mode? Any guess which of those three choices would be better? Also, if I use the combo 91XG setup, what would be the best combiner to use to join them together?

Thanks![/QUOTE
WNCT 9.1 CBS, 9.2 CW
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Old 30-Jun-2014, 9:30 PM   #8
tomfoolery
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[QUOTE=Brice52;44682]
Quote:
Originally Posted by VapeAddict View Post
If I have to give up a station that I want, I would rather give up ION...that would mean that I would need to pull from the Raleigh market only.
Perhaps a second tuner would be in order for you, so you could have two independent antenna systems. Or a dual-tuner unit, like the Silicon Dust HDHomerun unit. I don't have one, but I've been following some of the discussion here about such technology, and from my limited knowledge on the subject, it sounds like it might help you with your problem, though it might be hitting a fly with a sledgehammer.
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Old 30-Jun-2014, 11:16 PM   #9
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But... Have you ever seen a fly get up and walk away from a good whack from a sledge?
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If the well is dry and you don't see rain on the horizon, you'll need to dig the hole deeper. (If the antenna can't get the job done, an amp won't fix it.)

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Old 1-Jul-2014, 2:54 AM   #10
VapeAddict
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[QUOTE=Brice52;44682]
Quote:
Originally Posted by VapeAddict View Post
Thank you for the reply Stephanie,
...however, by going with the Greenville & Jacksonville markets I will not be able to receive CW which I really want. I could get all stations that I want by going with Raleigh & Greenville though...BUT I can not use an A/B switch when hooking up to an OTA DVR. You don't think that the DB8e will be strong enough to split between Raleigh & Greenville because of the added distance involved in reaching Raleigh? If this would work, it would be the ideal situation.

If I have to give up a station that I want, I would rather give up ION...that would mean that I would need to pull from the Raleigh market only. I would guess that the combination antenna that would be needed in this case would probably be the AD 91XG with a Antennacraft Y10-7-13 pointed to 305 degrees OR POSSIBLY a WG HD7698P alone?...or how about the DB8e with dipole attachment used in full 8 bay mode? Any guess which of those three choices would be better? Also, if I use the combo 91XG setup, what would be the best combiner to use to join them together?

Thanks![/QUOTE
WNCT 9.1 CBS, 9.2 CW
OMG! Thank you! I did not know that...on the TV Fool Radar, it just shows that location as CBS.
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Old 1-Jul-2014, 4:22 AM   #11
StephanieS
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Quote:
WNCT 9.1 CBS, 9.2 CW
Excellent. Thanks for pointing this out.

Both WNCT 9.2 and WLFL both offer CW programming in 720p. WNCT also has CBS programming in 1080i in on 9.1 while WLFL has a 480i 22.2 feed of ZUUS Country.

It might stand to reason with the larger bandwith on WLFL's primary 720p CW feed that, that the programming will be crisper and less prone to pixellation on 22.1 vs 9.2.

Either way VapeAddict, with my recommendation, you'll have two CBS sources and two CW sources.

Cheers.

Last edited by StephanieS; 1-Jul-2014 at 4:24 AM.
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