TV Fool  

Go Back   TV Fool > Over The Air Services > Help With Reception

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 1-Jun-2015, 5:49 PM   #1
CanadianOTA
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 5
Rotorless install

Hi,
I have a friend with the following profile:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...f1f08f9f58f660

He would like to get all of the 'major' channels here in Canada but DOES NOT want a rotor.

Looking at this report I said he can realistically receive:

CJOH-TV (6)
to
WWTI-DT (21 (50.1)

I believe he can pick up:
CJOH-TV
CICO_DT
CIII-DT (27.1)
CKWS-DT (11.1)
CHEX-DT (12.1)
CIII-TV 2
via a omindirectional antenna like a:
Channel Master CM3000

Then he will need a long range multibay antenna to pick up:

WWNY-TV (97)
WHEC (188)
WHAM (188)
WPBS (101)
WWTI (100)

We are thinking of a:
ANTENNAS DIRECT DB8E
With one bay pointed at the 97~101 direction
And another bay pointed at the 188 direction

Is this possible?
Can he combine signal and then run it through a pre-amp?
CanadianOTA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1-Jun-2015, 6:41 PM   #2
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 2,719
Quote:
He would like to get all of the 'major' channels here in Canada but DOES NOT want a rotor.
His expectations are not realistic. It would require a CATV tower. Where will the antennas be located, inside or outside?



I am always amazed when someone wants a simple system that duplicates what a CATV system does with multiple antennas, amplifiers, and modulators costing thousands of dollars. You will need to cut back on your expectations and settle for improving one direction or be prepared to spend a lot of time and money building a system that does what you want.

Quote:
Looking at this report I said he can realistically receive:

CJOH-TV (6)
to
WWTI-DT (21 (50.1)
I agree.

Quote:
I believe he can pick up:
CJOH-TV
CICO_DT
CIII-DT (27.1)
CKWS-DT (11.1)
CHEX-DT (12.1)
CIII-TV 2
via a omindirectional antenna like a:
Channel Master CM3000
Nice try, but the preamp in the CM3000 will be overloaded by analog CJOH.

Quote:
We are thinking of a:
ANTENNAS DIRECT DB8E
With one bay pointed at the 97~101 direction
And another bay pointed at the 188 direction
The DB8E does have panels that can be aimed in different directions. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.

In spite of some glowing reviews, the antenna with two panels, each aimed in a different direction, often doesn't work. When the same signals from each antenna panel reach the combining point, they can interfere with each other if they are not in phase.

Quote:
Is this possible?
Yes, but it would require a lot of time and more money than he would want to spend.

An Alternative to Rotators and Antenna Combiners
http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=820

Another Alternative to an Antenna Rotator or Combiner
http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=2882

Don't do this, it isn't legal:
Save money- make a TV transmitter for $35 if not FREE
http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=13095

To rotate, or not to rotate.
http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=8275
Attached Images
File Type: jpg CATVants2.jpg (58.0 KB, 829 views)
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html

Last edited by rabbit73; 1-Jun-2015 at 7:15 PM.
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1-Jun-2015, 7:05 PM   #3
CanadianOTA
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 5
Follow up questions.

So what could he realistically expect with:
-CM3000
-DB8e with one bay pointed at: at the 97~101 direction
-the second bay pointed at: 188 direction

-preamp on the DB8e

Preamp signal of DB8e + CM signal combined and ran into the home to one tv

And to clarify the expectation, we are not expecting to pick up EVERY channel like a CATV tower but the feasibility of picking up:
CJOH-TV (6)
to
WWTI-DT (21 (50.1) -10.3 db
CanadianOTA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1-Jun-2015, 7:33 PM   #4
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 2,719
Quote:
So what could he realistically expect with:
-CM3000
The preamp in the 3000 would be overloaded.

Quote:
-DB8e with one bay pointed at: at the 97~101 direction
-the second bay pointed at: 188 direction
The only way to tell is to try it.

Quote:
-preamp on the DB8e
The preamp would be overloaded by CJOH unless you insert a HLSJ, UVSJ, or a custom Tin Lee bandstop filter for CH 6 before it.

Quote:
Preamp signal of DB8e + CM signal combined and ran into the home to one tv
The same signals from each antenna would interfere with each other at the combiner.
Quote:
And to clarify the expectation, we are not expecting to pick up EVERY channel like a CATV tower but the feasibility of picking up:
CJOH-TV (6)
to
WWTI-DT (21 (50.1) -10.3 db
Not easily done. Too many signals, in too many directions, on too many TV bands, with too much difference in signal strength.

I suggest starting small with just the most important channels, and build on that. For example, he has 3 CBC:
real channel 11, CKWS
real channel 30, CKWS
real channel 12, CHEX

does he really need all three?
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html

Last edited by rabbit73; 1-Jun-2015 at 8:55 PM.
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2-Jun-2015, 5:59 PM   #5
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 2,719
Another example, he has 2 Global:
real channel 27, CIII-DT
real channel 2, CIII-TV

Antennas for channel 2 are very large, because it is the lowest VHF-Low frequency.
Channel 2 is 54 to 60 MHz, center frequency 57 MHz. A simple dipole antenna for channel 2 would be 5540/57 = 97.2 inches or about 8.1 feet long.

http://www.channelmaster.com/Digital..._p/cm-3018.htm
http://www.channelmaster.com/Digital..._p/cm-3020.htm
http://www.channelmaster.com/Masterp..._p/cm-5018.htm
http://www.channelmaster.com/Masterp..._p/cm-5020.htm
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=hd7084
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=hd8200u
The above antennas also receive VHF-High and UHF.

Does he really need both?

For CTV the only one that is strong enough is CJOH-TV on real channel 6, which is so strong that he could probably receive it with an indoor rabbit ears antenna or folded dipole antenna.
5540/85 = 65 inches, See Attachment

So, now we have it down to this for the locals:
For CTV, CJOH-TV, real channel 6, an indoor or attic antenna
For TVO, CICO-DT, real channel 26, a DB4E in the attic or an RCA ANT751 outside aimed at 45 degrees magnetic
For GTN and CBC, CIII-DT real channel 27, and CKWS-DT real channel 30, a DB4E outside aimed at 270 degrees magnetic. A preamp might be needed for this antenna.
You can combine the CTV antenna with the TVO antenna with a UVSJ. You might be able to combine the two UHF antennas with a splitter in reverse.

I can't guarantee that this will work, but it is my best guess based on my experience, your tvfool report, and what you have told us.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Folded Dipole.jpg (59.4 KB, 285 views)
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html

Last edited by rabbit73; 2-Jun-2015 at 7:09 PM.
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3-Jun-2015, 3:34 PM   #6
Greenish Apple
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: SE Ontario Canada
Posts: 28
I live in Belleville and we have two Super Stealth Hawk antennas and a 60 inch dipole for channel 6 CJOH (check DigitalHome.ca) in our attic. The dipole and one SSH are connected to a RCA TVPRAMP1R amp.

Because of the closeness of the two SSH antennas we get CJOH, CKWS and TVO (very strong signal) on the north antenna/TV and CJOH, TVO and Global on the south antenna/TV.

We don't get CHEX. Channel 11 CKWS (Wolfe Island - east) comes in strong but pixelates sometimes. Channel 30 CKWS (Brighton - west) comes in strong. CJOH comes in with some noise on both TVs, but it is better than the poor signal the local cable company gave us before we left them in January. Global comes in strong on the south TV. TVO is solid, I've used a paper clip to get it. During Tropo effects we get stations from Watertown, Rochester and Buffalo.

I've seen several Channel Master 4228HD's around town. One fixed to face west (CBC & Global), two on rotors facing east/Watertown.

I am working on either a Stealth Hawk (single unit) or a Tube version of the Bowtie antenna (after Bouval's 4 bay on DigitalHome) to go on our chimney to face Rochester.

FYI - On August 31 CKWS and CHEX will become CTV affiliates. So we lose CBC and get CTV in pure digital. Though I'll miss it, we weren't watching much CBC.

David
Greenish Apple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3-Jun-2015, 6:10 PM   #7
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 2,719
Greenish Apple:

Thanks for the update. You know much better than I do what's going on up there.

CanadianOTA:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianOTA View Post
Then he will need a long range multibay antenna to pick up:

WWNY-TV (97)
WHEC (188)
WHAM (188)
WPBS (101)
WWTI (100)

We are thinking of a:
ANTENNAS DIRECT DB8E
With one bay pointed at the 97~101 direction
And another bay pointed at the 188 direction
That will not work. It does need to be a long range antenna, and probably with a preamp with 2 HLSJs in series before the input. But, the DB8E is a UHF antenna and three of those signals are on VHF-High. Also, all 5 are 2Edge signals.

WWNY-TV (97), real channel 7
WHEC (188), real channel 10
WHAM (188), real channel 13
WPBS (101), real channel 41
WWTI (100), real channel 21

You would need a VHF/UHF combo antenna (like the Winegard HD7694P or 7697P) aimed at 100 and a VHF or VHF/UHF combo (because VHF only antennas are getting scarce) antenna aimed at 188.
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html

Last edited by rabbit73; 3-Jun-2015 at 6:32 PM.
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Go Back   TV Fool > Over The Air Services > Help With Reception


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT. The time now is 6:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © TV Fool, LLC