OTA attic antenna advice
 

Trying to find a suitable antenna to put in my attic for OTA. I live just north outside of Philadelphia PA. here's a link to a TV Fool report

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...5b944497c4382a

I'm only interested in the main UHF/VHF stations that the reports lists all at 241 degrees (true north) and ~18 miles away This is just ABC/NBC/CBS/PBS and virtual channels 17.1/29.1/57.1

Rooftop antenna is not an option. I was planning on putting an antenna in the attic facing the southwest wall . The only obstructions would be the outer wall & vinyl siding. Outside of that is an unobstructed view, though my neighborhood is in a bit of a valley compared to the surrounding area

I originally bought an amplified Mohu Leaf and placed it next to the TV on a window that face north. On the 1st try it got all the above stations I mention expect for ABC. I then moved it to a window on the west wall (figuring it was closer to 241 deg) and it picked up some of the obscure stations (but no ABC). The picture was good enough to watch with a few episodes of pixelations/dropouts but not too annoying.

But after the 1st day, reception quality & # stations dropped pretty quickly. None of the stations would hold a picture. Eventually I tried it in the attic right against the southwest wall (a 50 foot run of RG6 quad cable) but got no better results. I was hoping with the extra height up there & no exterior obstructions it would pick up what I listed above. So I’m at a loss to figure out why it would work well for 1 day and be basically useless ever since. It’s not like I can blame it on 2 weeks of continual bad weather.

My roof is just plywood/asphalt shingles; I do have my central air unit in the center of the attic. I tried the Mohu w & w/o an old Electroline 4 way splitter/amplifier that I still have (didn't make a diff). I only plan on connecting 1 TV to this if I can find an antenna that would work for me.

Right now, I plan on selling the Leaf on Ebay and trying ones I can pick up in a store - to make the return process (if needed) a lot more easier. Originally I wasn't expecting problems being, what I thought, was pretty close to the stations.

thanks for any advice/suggestions

Philadelphia usually requires an all-channel combo due WPVI on channel 6 and WHYY on channel 12. The rest of the stations are all on UHF.

WPVI is actually running at 4X the power listed on TV Fool (they've applied to almost double it yet again), so it's 6 dB stronger than indicated. They bumped up the power to try to improve reception for indoor antenna users in the urban and suburban area and to help overcome the higher noise levels on low VHF.

When the boss was on the bus tour last year in Allentown, he said he was able to pick up WPVI with a C2V even though it's cut for high-VHF. Tons of transmitter power tends to overcome a too-small antenna up to a point.

I'm wondering if there's an issue I'm not understanding as the Leaf utterly failed on every channel - and continually failed over the last 2 weeks. I was hoping being 18 miles out I wouldn't need a huge antenna.

Neighbor's house isn't in the way from the attic, nor are there any trees. I was expecting at least some basic coverage from it.

My neighbor found out the hard way that he has foil back insulation under the vinyl siding, which blocked nearly all TV signals. He found joy by moving the antenna so it was 'looking' through the roof, but even with a report similar to yours at my location, I've found that something with higher gain than rabbit ears is needed in my attic. Rabbit ears actually work better at ground level here instead of in the attic.

Says nothing about your situation, though, other than it's possible there's more blocking and/or reflecting your signals than is apparent.

That's an interesting point. I can see the backside of the insulating board from inside the attic but I don't know what is on the outside. The attic vent that's in the wall is right there also; I can probably put it right at the same level and see if it makes any difference.

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Attics and the inside of buildings Are Not a reception friendly environment and Never Will Be a reception friendly environment.

Here is the Federal Antenna Law that says Yes you can install a Broadcast Tv Antenna above the roof in such a manner so as to have Reliable Reception.

http://www.fcc.gov/guides/over-air-r...n-devices-rule .

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Yes start with a antenna in the attic.

If reception situations happen in the attic that are not resolvable with antenna aim adjustments and antenna location adjustments in the attic then move the antenna to above the peak of the roof.

Install a , www.antennacraft.net , HD850 All Channel antenna aimed at about 254 degree magnetic compass direction.

Here is how to aim antennas , www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html

Use a Real and Actual magnetic compass to aim antenna , do not trust a cell phone compass.

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To Prove Reception connect a NEW Continues length coax to the HD850 antenna and run the NEW Continues length of direct to the Tv.

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A antenna system amplifier is not required.

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Digital Tuners can develop -Digital Glitches- that are not cleared out with simple channel scans.

To clear tuner do Double Rescan.

www.wchstv.com/DoubleReScanAlert.pdf

The no roof antenna is a wife thing - I think that trumps federal law - sorry I should have made that clear.

I picked up a Wineguard Free Vision at Home Depot. At least that makes it for an easy return if needed.

I hung it pretty much in front of the vent gable in the attic and took a best guess at the bearing to point it at. It's a windy rainy night here, but I did a re-scan and where the Leaf would pick up anywhere between 0-10 channels, I now picked up 40.

I have it going into my Electroline EDA UG2402 4 way splitter/amp with only 1 output (I need to still cap the unused outputs). Not sure if that's really needed. I'll have to experiment with that.

So far channel 17.1 is holding with a few periodic drops. I'll have to watch it closely during the return period.

At least it gives me hope I can do this in the attic.

If anyone has small-medium size antenna recs I'd still take those in case it turns out I need something stronger.

thanks for the info.

If it were me, primarily because I have a need to get a handle on how things work, I'd move the antenna around in the attic just to see how reception is effected. If no real difference when it's not looking through the gable vent then perhaps an all-band antenna will work in there. Something with higher gain (I didn't see any gain specs on their site). The Free Vision is h-vhf and uhf only, by the way.

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A Tv Antenna above the roof are now shows every one that you are not being ripped off by cable Tv and satellite Tv.

The December 2013 Consumer Reports page 42 has a Informative Practical Useful article about streaming reception devices such as and not limited to Romu , and streaming services such as and not limited Hulu+ and Netflix.

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So the vent , on the end of the building , is , metal , wood , plastic ??

And you have the antenna real close to the vent.

I believe the vent was metal - the antenna is not right up against it - maybe 2-3 feet away with the center of the antenna lined up with the center of the vent. I'll have to find time moving it around to see what diff it makes.

I looked at the exposed insulation board around the vent and chipped off a tiny piece an I don't think there's a foil covering on the outside (50 yr old house)

I watched ABC last night w/o a single blip, though times when I switched to NBC/CBS I saw an occasional dropout/pixilation.

After the holiday I'm leaning toward returning it an finding a better antenna since it looks like it'll work having one in there. Is there a difference between 'antenna gain' and an amplified antenna?

thanks for the link about CR article - I've been thinking about cutting cable & upgrading my internet connection. My curr connection doesn't cut it (my TV has wireless)

Antennas are the Device that Actually Receive the Signal.

The Bigger the Antenna the More Signal is Received.

The more signal is received by the antenna at good reception location/s the better and more stable the reception will be.

Amplifiers Do Not receive signal and amplifiers will not correct bad reception.

Amplifiers will not correct bad reception caused buy bad reception locations.

Amplifiers will amplify bad reception along with the good reception.

Going to great lengths to find the easy way out is a good way to have bad reception.

And the -easy way- becomes the --> Least Easy Way.

If you must have the antenna in the attic , then use the Antenna Craft HD850 antenna.

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The antenna and any coaxes that are used for the antenna system Must Not be connected to any coax that has any type or kind of active cable Tv delivered services , be it , cable Tv service , cable internet service , cable phone service , or any other type or kind of cable service.

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Some satellite systems will accept and distribute the tv antenna reception and some satellite systems Will Not.

Check with a satellite system installer to see if the satellite system will or not.

Even so , the best practice to avoid problems is to not connect the Tv antenna and satellite system on to the same coaxes.

As teleview has already said in their own way, yes, there is a significant difference. Antenna gain comes as the result of the an intentional effort to make the antenna sensitive in only one direction rather than many or all directions. The gain offered by an antenna provides a way to gather more desired signal power from the air while receiving less interfering signal from other directions.

An amplifier is not going to gather signal from the air or even 'pull' signal from the antenna. It is only going to 'push' signal through losses in cable and accessories such as splitters that are connected to the output of the amplifier. teleview already mentioned that the amplifier will amplify all of the signals fed to it from the antenna, including interfering and distorted signals. In addition, the amplifier will also add yet more distortion and noise of it's own... No amplifier is perfect.

Reliable reception starts (and can end) at the antenna. The location of, aim of and choice of antenna are the most important choices to be made in a successful and reliable reception system.

If you start with the right antenna, the right location and aim, almost any length or distance can be accommodated with the technology now available. But poor quality signal at the antenna terminals will not be corrected with amplification any more than an old scratched record would be made to sound new by amplifying the sound... you would simply get a loud scratchy version of the record output.

Consider an Antennacraft 5884. You have already wasted tons on small antennas that are not appropriate for Philly.

Returning to HD isn't a problem & I've sold plenty on Ebay so that's not too much trouble
but on the bright side I've learned a bunch from all this so thanks for the info & recs.


BTW, with the larger antennas, would I have a problem getting them through the access panel into the attic?

That will depend on the size of the opening and the smallest dimension of the antenna.

Some antennas are shipped in in pieces, or folded up.
You may be unfolding, or assembling it in the attic.
This also means that you will need to fold it back up, or disassemble it to remove it, when you are unhappy w/ the results of an attic install.