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-   -   Stacker Antenna from DENNYSANTENNASERVICE.COM (http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=239)

coco 18-Mar-2010 6:13 PM

Stacker Antenna from DENNYSANTENNASERVICE.COM
 
My zipcode is 70374 .Has anyone tried the Stacker Antenna ? I was wondering if this antenna would work for me or should I get a Winegard Series 769 antenna.I have a Winegard AP8700 preamp along with a rotor. I have 75' of coax with a 4 way splitter. My present antenna is an old Radio Shack VU190 that is missing a lot of rods due to hurricanes. I'd be thankful for any help in deciding what antenna would be best for my area.

teleview 18-Mar-2010 7:43 PM

Stacker television antennas
 
All manner of stacker combination type Tv antennas were popular in the late 50's thru the 60's and 70's. The stacker combination Tv Antennas Are Nothing New. Most of your digital television stations at New Orleans and are broadcasting in the UHF 14 thru 51 and VHF High 7 thru 13 with none in the VHF Low 2 thru 6. Please note that this stacker Tv antenna Is Not Designed for the reception of VHF Low 2 thru 6. I know that many people are like a coiled up tightly compressed spring waiting to pounce/jump on a Tv antenna. At tvfool are the Actual and Virtual Television channels. I always , as in always go to the >>Start MAPS<< part of the tvfool web site where I look up the Actual and Virtual channel numbers. Examples are like this. Actual channel--> 40 (6.1)<--Virtual channel. or could be like this Actual channel--> 06 (40.1) <--Virtual channel. The point is that there are Actual channels and Virtual channels. At your location you Will Not need an antenna amplifier for 1 or 2 Tv's , might need it with 4 Tv's. I would try it with out a preamplifier first.

teleview 18-Mar-2010 8:30 PM

Actual and Virtual Tv channels
 
Of those people that become aware of Actual and Virtual Tv channels. Some ask why is this? Here is the main reason. This is known as LEGACY Television Channel Numbers. As an example , lets say that a Tv station has transmitted on analog Tv channel VHF 4 for the past 60 years. This number 4 is firmly fixed in peoples minds. Now at and after the switch to digital Tv transmission the station now is transmitting on digital channel UHF 29.1 . Ok now with digital Tv has the ability to put ANY channel number on the Tv screen for the viewer to look at. The viewer has been looking at the channel number 4 for 60 years so this is the number the viewer expects to see. So the Tv station keeps the Legacy channel number of VHF 4. Even though the real and actual channel is digital channel UHF 29.1 . YES digital Tv can do this , AND A LOT MORE. There are many other ways and reasons to use virtual/digital channel numbering. For the reason and purpose of reception of digital television you need to know the actual channel so you will know what antenna to get. There is a popular Urban Myth that all digital television channels are in the UHF , this is a straight out lie. I always go to the Radar Plot Map and the >>Start MAPS<< part of tvfool to find the Actual and Virtual television channels.

coco 18-Mar-2010 9:10 PM

Stacker orWinegard series 769 ?
 
What would be the best antenna for me the Stacker or a Winegard HD7696P
This is my TV fool readout:


http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...9038b0bdd6e7cb

teleview 19-Mar-2010 12:24 AM

Stacker or not.
 
First I will state that 1 dB of signal gain either positive or negative gain is not important. A careful reading of what little spesifications there is for the Stacker shows there is a positive gain of 1dB gain with the Stacker across the VHF High and UHF channels as a direct comparison with the Winegard , this is not important. I would go with the Winegard HD 7696P and here are the reasons why , Higher quality of construction. The Winegard HD 7696P does not have what looks like a flexible connecting jumper on the Stacker VHF High antenna and UHF antenna. Less moving parts means will last longer in the weather. The answer is for a rooftop Tv antenna the Winegard HD 7696P is a better antenna. Another reason to choose the Winegard antenna is the weather protected cartridge housing matching transformer that is built in to the antenna

Dave Loudin 19-Mar-2010 12:30 AM

Based on the real channel numbers (what actual RF the station is using), you need high-VHF and UHF. The stacker looks like overkill. The Winegard would work, and so would an Antennacraft HBU-33. Good luck!

teleview 19-Mar-2010 12:51 AM

Stacker or not.
 
I present the facts. Here is a helpful hint. The RG 6 coax that is connected between power supply and the preamplifier should have a solid copper center wire , not copper covered steel. The reason is the solid copper has less resistance to a preamplifier power supply voltage and current. The copper covered steel has more resistance. This does make a difference and I can present links to the information. Or you can look it up your self on the internet.

Tigerbangs 21-Mar-2010 3:22 AM

I agree: my choice would be the HD-7696P from Winegard, as well. Consider using a Winegard HDP-269 preamplifier if you plan to run multiple TV sets from the same antenna

coco 19-May-2010 2:28 AM

Very happy with "stacker"
 
After much consideration I decided to buy the "Stacker " antenna from Dennys.I put it up 6 weeks ago and I am very satisfied with its performance.With the antenna at 339 degrees I can get all the Baton Rouge stations even WAFB{ERP under6watts}plus all the New Orleans stations.This antenna is actually manufactured by winegard! It is very well constructed ;and at 70" long has less wind load than the 110" 7696P Check http://dennysantennaservice.com/best-tv-antenna.html this site for antenna comparison tests,I think you will be surprised

coco 19-May-2010 11:11 PM

After much consideration I decided to get the stacker antenna.It is very well built in fact it is manufactured by winegard.I 've been having it for 6 weeks now and I"m very satisfied with its performance. I have it aimed at 335 degrees and catch all the Baton Rouge as well as the New Orleans stations.The following link is side by side test of the stacker against channel master,winegard &antennacraft. http://www.dennysantennaservice.com/...V_Antenna.html

teleview 22-May-2010 4:57 AM

Tv reception
 
Carl , where is the Spectrum Analyzer? . I think Rita has it and she out in the field doing transmission and reception analysis for the KHII TV Group.

teleview 23-May-2010 6:44 AM

Tv reception
 
dennysantennaservice . The marker is the average signal strength shown. I e-mailed and then received a call from Winegard. Yes the antenna is manufactured by winegard. The antenna is made to dennys specifications and is not a winegard antenna. I ask the engineer I was talking to what he thought about dennys claims. His comment was that a Tv antenna can be evaluated from many different points of view and engineering facts , and his voice was quiet loud. . My comment is dennys evaluation is 'average signal strength' as shown by a Tv tuner. Not much of a evaluation.

il10 25-May-2010 11:35 AM

Stacker works for me!
 
After reading this and other threads, calling Denny's antenna and gathering all of the info. I could I decided to go with the HD Stacker. I've had the antenna installed just about 2 weeks and I couldn't be happier! It's the 3rd. outdoor antenna I have tried. I am very satisfied with the quality, ease of assembly and the performance of this antenna. I can now watch the Chicago stations uninterrupted.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...9fbe5dcc235bda

OKintheStix 2-Jun-2010 8:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teleview (Post 1567)
dennysantennaservice . The marker is the average signal strength shown. The antenna is made to dennys specifications and is not a winegard antenna. I ask the engineer I was talking to what he thought about dennys claims. His comment was that a Tv antenna can be evaluated from many different points of view and engineering facts , and his voice was quiet loud. . My comment is dennys evaluation is 'average signal strength' as shown by a Tv tuner. Not much of a evaluation.

Well Teleview, I'm your huckleberry.( ala Tombstone the movie ) I have a Tektronix spectrum analyzer, a 50 ft. mast and a Stacker from Denny's on the way. :D Oh, and I also have a vintage RCA crystal calibrated bar generator and amp and Simpson certified frequency meter and field strength meter to do near and far field evaluation. With Winegards approved diapole and a 30 acre yard to do it in and access to thousands of acres of test range around me we'll figure this thing out once and for all! Or as Denny did the test like 98% of OTA Television viewers across our great land; via the signal strength meter on his set top tuner!:eek: BUILT BY WINEGARD:eek::eek: ( or to their specs at least). Sooo... if that isn't much of an evaluation, I surely don't know what the general public would perceive as one!?! He also adds that ANY manufacturer of an antenna he compared to is welcome to a re-test at the same location as long as he can publish the results. Sounds fair enough to me. Maybe your EE from Winegard ought to get some extra frequent flier miles and go prove Denny wrong. Just because he doesn't have a big name like Winegard or Channel Meister etc... doesn't mean he can't tweek the wave-trap a bit and make a living at it. You call up your EE at Winegard to send me antennas I will plug and play and post the results for all to see. My mast uses a mounted a.c. powered winch on the bottom of the main mast to tilt and right itself in mere minutes, and is capable of 75 feet or more if that is necessary. With tornado season on-going I think 50ft. will work well enough. Winegard tests with 30 ft. Oh, and my selection of the HD Stacker is based on averaging of wind load (75 mph in my county)and ability to handle ice load versus dB gained with a Winegard HD7698P that is 60+ % larger. With the windload increasing at a cubed rate! Also the HD Stacker is a capable performer especially when coupled with my Research Communications Ltd LNA. It will also perform as an FM antenna where the Hi VHF and UHF antennas from most manufacturers don't . And there is a 100% money back he pays the shipping guarantee. Simply put it is the best balance of features and performance for my application right now and Denny's evaluation though lacking in scientific datum, is fair and clearly enough put for the average consumer to find use of.:)

teleview 8-Jun-2010 8:06 AM

Tv reception
 
Make part of the test , vertical tilt of the Stacker Antenna. Nose up and nose down. . And to be fair , test the other antennas with vertical tilt. . The antennas need to be tested with real life situations.

teleview 8-Jun-2010 6:05 PM

Tv reception
 
Because of the close vertical stacking of 2 dissimilar Tv antennas , check for nulls , signal distortions and cancelation effects across channels 7 thru 69 of the Stacker antenna. And to be fair , check the other antennas for nulls , signal distortions and cancelation effects across each channel.

teleview 8-Jun-2010 6:13 PM

Tv reception
 
Shall I go on ?

Michael55555 9-Jun-2010 8:30 PM

Hd stacker antenna has good gain on low vhf & fm
 
I tested Denny's HD STACKER antenna in Long Beach, LI, New York 11561, 21 miles from the Empire State Building, 93 miles from Philadelphia, PA, and 73 miles from New Haven, CT.

I was amazed that the VHF antenna of the stacker was picking up WKOB-LD, RF Ch. 2 on low-VHF, a 300 watt low power station, 21 miles away.

In addition, low power translator FM station 105.7 in Smithtown, 200 watts, which none of my antennas could receive came in dead full quieting when pointed to the NE, given strong adjacent channel WQXR-FM Classical 105.9Mhz.

Additionally, the VHF antenna picked up WVIT-DT, RF Ch. 6 on low VHF, 93 miles away!

I emailed Denny for the gain specifications in dbD for the HD Stacker antenna on low VHF Ch. 2, 4, 5, 6; high VHF 7, 9, 11, 13; UHF Ch. 18, 21, 24, 28, 33, 38, 41, 44, 48, 51. Denny said he asked Winegard to test the antenna in their test range.

The HD Stacker antenna is simply the best antenna for its size in performance on the low VHF, hi-VHF, and UHF channel range. The antenna is like a radio telescope on the low VHF and FM bands. On hi-VHF and UHF the antenna picks up hard to reach stations without difficulty.

The UHF antenna by itself was picking up my hi-VHFs RF 7, 8, 11, 13 from 21 miles away, and RF8 WNJB-DT from 44 miles away at 10 feet above ground in my home without line of site.

I strongly recommend the HD Stacker antenna, which is only $99 with free shipping.

I am a new customer of Denny's Antenna service and I am a HAM Radio Operator licensed by the FCC and I know what I am talking about.

So, for the individual planning to test the HD Stacker, be sure to include low VHF testing between 54Mhz - 108 Mhz!!!

Thank you for reading my review of the best consumer TV antenna on the market today!

I am sold on this antenna and I am considering another one pointed to Philadelphia (2-Edge, 93 miles away) to avoid a rotator.

teleview 9-Jun-2010 11:05 PM

Tv reception
 
I am 60 years old and I have seen and heard all this before. . 'The ~'SUPER BLASTER'~ Tv Antenna' is the answer , it is the only antenna you will need , it works like a radio telescope , it fishes signals out of the air , it's a signal magnet , like no other antenna - it reaches out and grabs signals , it works on the principle of reactive electromagnetic waves , the tuned elements act like electron amplifiers , With this antenna on the roof of your house - you will swell up with pride. . Look buddy , a word for the wise , get the ~SUPER BLASTER~ , it's a great Actor. . . . . No need for Teleview any more , Ya know that teleview? Ya. . Well he is an Idiot , He thinks I will actually think about what I am doing , That Teleview he is stupid. . Ive got the ~SUPER BLASTER~ , I am a real man.

Michael55555 10-Jun-2010 2:06 PM

Additional Information to HD Stacker Review 06/09/2010
 
06/10/2010

The HD Stacker is the best consumer TV/FM antenna for its size, period.

The station I am picking up on low VHF Ch. 6, RF6 from Philadelphia, PA, 93 miles away is WPVI-DT (ABC6-Philadelphia) on real channel Low VHF 6.

There is a 30 watt pirate station in Brooklyn, NY 15 miles away using vertical polarization at a height of 60 feet using a 30 inch quarter wave vertical whip antenna. Guess what, the HD Stacker picked up this flea power pirate station at 104.7Mhz at a receive height of 10 feet plus 6 feet above sea level, when I oriented the VHF stacker antenna into vertical polarization. When I turned the VHF antenna back to horizontal polarization, the pirate station was like magic gone and I was picking up far off 104.7Mhz from Poughkeepsie, NY 80 miles away dead full quieting.

In addition, I am picking up WTNH-DT RF10 from New Haven, CT, 2 edge from 73 miles satisfactorily.

My recommendations are: (1) WEATHERPROOF THE TWIN LEAD WIRE BY SOLDERING THE COPPER WIRE TO EACH RING TERMINAL; (2) WRAP THE TWIN LEAD WITH 3M BRAND ELECTRICAL TAPE TO PROTECT IT FROM WATER AND SOLAR UV RADIATION, THIS WILL MAKE THE TWIN LEAD LAST A GOOD LONG TIME; (3) WIPE ALL SURFACES OF THE ANTENNA WITH PAINT THINNER AND WIPE OFF WITH A CLEAN RAG AND PAINT THE ANTENNA WITH A NON-CONDUCTIVE PAINT EITHER CLEAR OR THE COLOR OF YOUR CHOICE (DO NOT USE METALLIC PAINT SINCE IT WILL SHIELD THE SIGNALS YOU WANT); WEATHERPROOF ALL TWIN LEAD TERMINALS AFTER MAKING YOUR CONNECTIONS USING COAX SEAL OR ROOF SEALING COMPOUND; (4) USE RG-6 SOLID COPPER CORE QUAD SHIELD FOR DOWNLEAD: USE A PRE-AMP LOCATED 14 INCHES BELOW THE ANTENNA TO MAKE UP FOR DOWNLEAD LOSS; (5) GROUND THE ANTENNA USING #6 COPPER WIRE USING A GROUND CLAMP ON THE MAST AND AN 8 FOOT GROUND ROD BELOW THE ANTENNA, CONNECT THIS TV GROUND ROD USING A #6 COPPER WIRE BACK TO YOUR ELECTRICAL PANELS GROUND ROD SO THE GROUND VOLTAGE POTENTIAL OF YOUR AC GROUND AND COAXIAL CABLE GROUND ARE THE SAME= 0 VOLTS.

I am extremely pleased with the HD Stacker TV antenna and would recommend it to everyone, you will receive more TV and FM stations than you knew existed in your reception area. I receive all New York City Stations, most Philadelphia, and most New Haven and Hartford, CT stations with this antenna. My prior antenna could only receive New York City and give me a deep fringe area rolling vertical picture for these stations.

The HD Stacker antenna rocks on low VHF 54-108Mhz, hi-VHF, and UHF.

I am a new customer. I am not paid to endorse this product, I am writing based on my personal experience with the HD Stacker TV antenna.:)

Billiam 10-Jun-2010 6:26 PM

How well does this Stacker antenna reject signals off the side and back?

Michael. If you don't mind my asking what city or town and state are you using this antenna? You are getting some amazing results with it.

No static at all 10-Jun-2010 6:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael55555 (Post 1724)
My prior antenna could only receive New York City and give me a deep fringe area rolling vertical picture for these stations.

Thanks Michael,

What were you using before the Stacker?

teleview 11-Jun-2010 7:27 AM

Tv reception
 
A big long explanation about the twin lead. . And leaving a Fact out about the twin lead , this is known as -X- omission and reveals a truth about the Stacker. I know the truth about the Stacker , however I will see if any one will like to come clean. . And then there is the talk of the vertical rolling of the picture.

Dave Loudin 11-Jun-2010 12:41 PM

Bottom line: this is a VHF antenna over a UHF antenna. Several folks on this forum have recommended this type of installation using antennas from different manufacturers when appropriate.

teleview 11-Jun-2010 4:40 PM

Tv reception
 
Spacing is important between the antennas when stacking antennas both vertical and horizontal. . Much information on the internet about Correct TV Antenna Stacking.

ADTech 11-Jun-2010 5:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Loudin (Post 1733)
Bottom line: this is a VHF antenna over a UHF antenna. Several folks on this forum have recommended this type of installation using antennas from different manufacturers when appropriate.

Stacking separate U/V antennas at recommended distances is one thing and is a common and accepted practice . Making them conjoined twins is quite another.

I'd line to see a return loss sweep (VSWR) of this pair in addition to some real specifications obtained either by modeling, from an antenna test range, or even a valid comparison between it and a reference antenna using real test equipment (not a converter box) .

coco 19-Jun-2010 9:00 PM

[QUOTE=teleview;1728]A big long explanation about the twin lead. . And leaving a Fact out about the twin lead , this is known as -X- omission and reveals a truth about the Stacker. I know the truth about the Stacker , however I will see if any one will like to come clean.

OK Teleview its been over a week now and nobody has come clean.What is the fact about the twinlead?How about telling us the truth about the Stacker?

teleview 21-Jun-2010 9:28 AM

Tv reception
 
The twin lead will break. . The connections will break. . The average person will not do any repairs at all. . If the twin lead does get replaced it will be with some short pieces of some junk wire. . . Do you know why the loop of twin lead is there ? . I do. . I know more , a lot more. It makes no difference if I put the information out there. . People are Lemmings.

Billiam 21-Jun-2010 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teleview (Post 1826)
The twin lead will break. . The connections will break. . The average person will not do any repairs at all. . If the twin lead does get replaced it will be with some short pieces of some junk wire. . . Do you know why the loop of twin lead is there ? . I do. . I know more , a lot more. It makes no difference if I put the information out there. . People are Lemmings.

Enough of the guessing games. Precisely how will the twin lead break and where? What is causing this? Wind, or simple stress from tightening the wire too tight? What? My guess is that if you securely tape the twin lead to the mast it will not rip away in the wind.

The antenna comes with a money back guarantee which is unheard of in the TV antenna industry. This does seem to indicate the company is willing to put its money where its mouth is. How about you? If you are going to bad mouth a particular antenna or company then you better have some reliable evidence to back up your statements.

ADTech 21-Jun-2010 5:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billiam (Post 1827)
Enough of the guessing games. Precisely how will the twin lead break and where? What is causing this? Wind, or simple stress from tightening the wire too tight? What? My guess is that if you securely tape the twin lead to the mast it will not rip away in the wind.

The antenna comes with a money back guarantee which is unheard of in the TV antenna industry. This does seem to indicate the company is willing to put its money where its mouth is. How about you? If you are going to bad mouth a particular antenna or company then you better have some reliable evidence to back up your statements.

Twin-lead should be secured away from the mast to prevent cross-coupling from the mast to the leads. If it does, there would be unpredictable variations in VSWR that would make reception even less than predictable.

(Tooting own horn...) BTW, Denny's isn't the only company with a lifetime warranty and a liberal money-back guarantee...

Billiam 21-Jun-2010 6:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADTech (Post 1830)
Twin-lead should be secured away from the mast to prevent cross-coupling from the mast to the leads. If it does, there would be unpredictable variations in VSWR that would make reception even less than predictable.

(Tooting own horn...) BTW, Denny's isn't the only company with a lifetime warranty and a liberal money-back guarantee...

Good point. Using standoffs would be wiser.

coco 22-Jun-2010 1:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teleview (Post 1826)
The twin lead will break. . The connections will break. . The average person will not do any repairs at all. . If the twin lead does get replaced it will be with some short pieces of some junk wire. . . Do you know why the loop of twin lead is there ? . I do. . I know more , a lot more. It makes no difference if I put the information out there. . People are Lemmings.

Teleview I would like to know why there is a loop in the twinlead ,plus any other insightful information you may know. Put the information out there ,some of us care what you have to say.

John Candle 23-Jun-2010 8:50 PM

Antennas
 
I have seen this stacked antenna somewhere in the past i am looking in electronics magazines such as radio electronics , electronics illustrated , mechanics illustrated , and etc. and more. I am researching now. Seems to me that i saw this antenna in the 1970s. Long before Dennys claim to fame.

Tigerbangs 24-Jun-2010 12:51 AM

We really need to close this thread: it has dragged on far too long! it was perpetuated by Televue, and he is gone: let's put this thread to rest, too!

ghz24 16-Jun-2011 10:15 PM

If the flames have died down. I'm still curious to hear the results especially the low vhf performance. uhf and vhf high info is plentiful. Even the sellers tests don't include any vhf low results (made me skeptical). So I'd like to hear from okinthestix re: results. Or if any one knows about or has a model for this antenna that would be great. I might be able to model it if I had good measurements.

all grey on charts 8-Nov-2011 5:16 PM

stacker from dennys
 
my zip code 96028, all the channels I get are grey on the charts or not on the charts at all , I have had two large radio shack antennas with rs preamps in the past years that would pickup only three channels in the same spot as my stacker with dennys preamps and a 150 feet of coax, I get fourteen channels 2-1 2-2 22-1 22-2 22-3 from Klamath falls about 90 mi. north. also 7-1 7-2 7-3 9-1 9-2 9-3 from Redding Ca. about 75 mi. to the west. also 31-1 31-2 from medford Or. about 100mi. to the northwest. also anolog 41 "fuzzy most of the time" from Reno Nv. about 200 mi. to the southeast 120 degrees from where my stacker is pointed. my stacker is 35 feet up with no trees or buildings, I am not on top of a mountain. the stacker was money well spent, very sturdy, easy to work with, way easyer than those rs behemoths. Denny and his crew are very helpful and honest about everything I had asked. I am thankful that there are peaple like this still, selling quality goods willing to talk to you in person, thank you dennys antenna I will buy from you again.

fallen_trumpet 14-Feb-2012 3:35 PM

HD Stacker specs
 
I don't intend to "fan the flames" about this controversial antenna, but... in this long thread, going back almost two years...

Did Denny ever provide actual dBD gain numbers for the HD Stacker (at least for channels 7-51)? (Someone mentioned that Denny asked Winegard to perform the tests.)

Other than the comparative tests on Denny's web site, are there any other actual HD Stacker specs available today?

And perhaps I overlooked the terminolgy "legend" on Denny's web site, but what exactly do the "percentages" represent? (Percentage of what? For example, Denny's tests show, for RF Channel 8 at his test location, the Stacker scored "52%" while the Winegard 8200U only scored "39%". I'm hoping to determine how to derive dBD from these percentages, or is that possible?)

Full disclosure... I just ordered an HD Stacker yesterday for my planned attic installation. I'm hopeful of good reception and that I don't have to remove and return the antenna and start over with some other brand/model.

Malcolm 16-Jul-2012 4:23 AM

I am looking at the HD Stacker to go up with an amplifier in zip code 77833. This is probably 50-60 miles northwest of Houston. At the present time we have some kind of unknown antenna up with a RS amplifier. It picks up stations from Waco, TX, which is much farther away, but no Houston stations.

When I enter the exact address at Denny's website it actually shows no broadcast service available.

Is it advisable to use a rotor also?

Any help would be appreciated.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...99009c3bc8a744

coco 6-Jan-2020 2:16 AM

In just 2 months it will be TEN (10) YEARS that I installed my "STACKER" antenna and it is still in excellent shape.I had it 35feet high when I first put it up.About 6 years ago we had a hurricane coming our way so I took it down.After storm passed I put it back up but took a 10 foot section of my tower.At 25 feet I still catch all my stations even WAFB in Baton Rouge. When I purchased this antenna it was $100 now it cost $140. Kind of expensive but if you divide what you paid for it by #of years. So I paid $10 a year--so far.


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