OTA recommendations
By PM:
Quote:
Many others have to wait because the TVFool staff is very small. Some never are able to post. This forum is becoming less active; it isn't as secure since they didn't renew their certificate. There is no longer https:// in the address. If you get tired of waiting, you can join the AVS Forum: https://www.avsforum.com/forums/hdtv-technical.25/ I will try to help you with your OTA problem under these difficult circumstances. I will need certain information, like a signal report, a description of your present equipment, and what channels you hope to receive. If you are willing to give me your address and coordinates of your antenna, I can get a signal report from rabbitears.info and look at your location in a satellite view. https://www.rabbitears.info/searchmap.php The signal reports from TVFool now contain errors because they are using an old database to generate reports. https://www.tvfool.com/index.php?opt...pper&Itemid=29 If this conversation continues, you should know that you are presently limited to 5 PM messages. If you don't delete the earlier PMs, I will get the message that your inbox is full. rabbit |
His reply by PM:
Quote:
|
Next reply by verder by PM:
Quote:
We will study your problem and come back with some comments that might be helpful. |
2 Attachment(s)
Here is a signal report for your location:
https://www.rabbitears.info/searchma...tudy_id=143302 https://i.imgur.com/EzhDH6w.jpg For comparison, a TVFool signal report for your location would look like this: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...9038e93d573093 https://i.imgur.com/0Rt3JPz.jpg I don't think verder can see attachments yet. There are regular attachment to this post, and the images in the post are from my image host imgur. |
Quote:
https://i.imgur.com/fF97XbO.jpg Quote:
https://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=90 The green signal lines are based on old channel data, but it gives the general idea. https://i.imgur.com/EzhDH6w.jpg Channels checked: 4-1 (KRDK) COZI, Real channel 24, 324.8 deg True, Signal Margin 39 dB 6-1 (WDAY) ABC, Real channel 21, 306.1 deg True, Signal Margin 68 dB 11-1 (KVLY) NBC/CBS, Real channel 36, 331.6 deg True, Signal Margin 53 dB 13-1 (KFME) PBS, Real channel 13, 307.5 deg True, Signal Margin 59 dB 15-1 (KVRR) Fox, Real channel 19, 111.7 deg True, Signal Margin 56 dB 28-1 (K28MA) CBS/CW, Real channel 28, 331.6 deg True, Signal Margin 40 dB 30-1 (KXJB) CBS/CW, Real channel 30, 101.7 deg True, Signal Margin 60 dB Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
Quote:
https://i.imgur.com/bVDpfOz.jpg The RTL-SDR.COM V3 dongle doesn't show a whole channel with the SDR# (SDRsharp) software, but it will show part of a channel, the pilot, and the adjacent noise floor, which is sufficient to estimate the SNR. https://i.imgur.com/3bNbdYN.jpg To show more than one channel, there is free open-source software for the dongle, but it isn't ready to use; you have to assemble it in a folder from GitHub. https://i.imgur.com/7E42YTv.jpg I like the Airspy R2 with the Spectrum Spy software. https://i.imgur.com/tpkpAkb.jpg https://i.imgur.com/6PODjZr.jpg The dB scale is only relative, not absolute. |
Quote:
https://i.imgur.com/NOyvwbS.jpg For signal quality, SNR and errors, I use my SONY TV and a SiliconDust HDHR. Bad signal https://i.imgur.com/Z1S39Gx.jpg Good signal https://i.imgur.com/4XpqDzV.jpg https://i.imgur.com/IVW8V3y.jpg Signal Quality is similar to SNR. Symbol Quality is the inverse of uncorrected errors; it should be 100%. Looking at the shape of a signal can help find the best location for the antenna. https://i.imgur.com/YSrnllZ.jpg https://i.imgur.com/CeyHgSw.jpg https://i.imgur.com/qNhHmFC.jpg https://i.imgur.com/ErIg4Gw.jpg The above three images were made with an SDRplay RSP1A and SDRuno software. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
Pete Higgins had a tutorial on the HDF forum, but that forum folded. There is part of it on the web archive. Post #12 has the best INFO on the RTL-SDR Scanner: https://web.archive.org/web/20170627...r-10-00-a.html I tried 3 different software versions that are listed in this post. I like the 64 Bit v1.3.0 RTLSDR Scanner best https://www.digitalhome.ca/threads/c...5#post-3090963 RTLSDR Scanner https://eartoearoak.com/software/rtlsdr-scanner Releases https://github.com/EarToEarOak/RTLSDR-Scanner/releases go to v1.3.0 and click on assets if you have a 64-bit computer click on rtlsdr_scan-windows-64bit.exe 41.1 MB |
Quote:
Thanks! Was it worth it? Nice cheap alternative for someone that barely understands what this is! |
Quote:
The first thing I did when learning about SDRs was download the SDR# (SDRsharp) software, which was ready to use. The dongle and SDR# will only show about 2 MHz. But, I was then able to look at part of a channel, its pilot carrier, and estimate the SNR of the channel. https://i.imgur.com/3bNbdYN.jpg I was also able to look at and listen to FM signals. https://i.imgur.com/dO83B4D.jpg This gave me the confidence to try the spectrum analyzer for the RTL-SDR.COM V3 dongle. https://www.rtl-sdr.com/buy-rtl-sdr-dvb-t-dongles/ I knew that if I couldn't figure out the RTLSDR Scanner, I would at least have the dongle and SDR# software. I suggest you try the RTL-SDR.COM V3 dongle with the SDR# software to give you confidence. Quick Start Guide https://www.rtl-sdr.com/rtl-sdr-quick-start-guide/ Installing RTL-SDR & SDR Sharp on Win10 Made Easy - TheSmokinApe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUwRt5qn-6U Once you have it working, then you need to learn how to adjust the gain to make a good estimate of the SNR of the channel. There is an optimum setting of the gain to show max signal with max SNR. Strong signals require less gain; weak signals require more gain. https://i.imgur.com/dgVvfhj.jpg This is my amateur video; one of these should work: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ge923irqji...50-56.mp4?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/ge923irqji...50-56.mp4?dl=1 If you want to show the whole channel with ready-to-use software, then upgrade to the SDRplay RSP1A SDR ($100) with SDRuno software. https://i.imgur.com/CeyHgSw.jpg |
Quote:
I almost stumbled by buying a clone but now I understand what to buy. In another post, you advised me to point my antenna towards Orlando rather than Palm Beach. I have done so to good effect. CBS in Orland came in 80-100% right away, but then to 0 and back again. I want to use the scanner to lock in that station. Sorry to appropriate the thread from the OP. |
Quote:
I have used 3 SDRs: https://i.imgur.com/2E2nvoV.jpg For $25 you can buy an RTL-SDR.COM V3 dongle and download SDR# software. With it you will only be able to see part of a TV channel. The dongle will only show about 2 MHz, not a whole TV channel which is 6 MHz wide. If you use the free open-source DIY spectrum analyzer software (RTLSDR Scanner) for the dongle, you can see more than one channel. You have to assemble the software yourself in a folder to use it. The way it is able to show more than one channel is by stitching together sections to make the entire scan. If you want to see the whole channel with ready-to-use software, you have to buy an SDRplay RSP1A SDR ($100) and download the SDRuno software. If you want a spectrum analyzer with ready-to-use software you have to buy an Airspy R2 SDR ($200) and download the SDR# software which will include the Spectrum Spy Spectrum Analyzer software. Quote:
|
Back on topic
From PM: Quote:
Ideally, the AGC shouldn't alter the SNR of the signal unless it is extremely strong or extremely weak; IOW, within its operating range. Your additional tests should give you more clues. Since your two directions are almost 180 degrees apart, you will need a bi-directional antenna or 2 separate antennas. The ANT 751 is not bi-directional, but your AD 4MAX is bi-directional since it doesn't have a reflector. I have some concern about the 4MAX because of its narrow beamwidth. If its aim is optimum for one direction, it might be off for the other direction. A DB4e without a reflector would have a wider beamwidth, but perhaps not quite as much gain. It looks like your present antenna location can "see" in both directions, but the antenna might not be high enough for the signals to clear the trees. Trees can seriously affect the incoming signals, especially when they are wet. Also, when the wind moves the branches it creates multipath problems. http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/siting.html scroll down to Trees and UHF You mentioned earlier that when you moved the antenna higher, you lost a channel. This seems counterintuitive, but is caused by layering: https://i.imgur.com/MWtGdqn.jpg I'm presently living in a retirement facility on lockdown. My previous room was on the first floor and an indoor antenna did quite well. When I was moved to the 2nd floor, I thought the additional height would help, but there is a tree in the signal paths. https://i.imgur.com/YSrnllZ.jpg and when the wind blows, it really messes with the signal: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8gsw9t1zsr...Path2.mp4?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/8gsw9t1zsr...Path2.mp4?dl=1 this is what the signal looks like with a strong wind: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ig3va499k2...Path4.mp4?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/ig3va499k2...Path4.mp4?dl=1 |
Quote:
https://github.com/EarToEarOak/RTLSDR-Scanner/releases Your video quite nicely shows the affect of the gain control. I look forward to playing with this. I have the dongle on order, along with an adapter. Should be here tomorrow... |
Quote:
Adjusting the gain of the RTLSDR Scanner is a little different. You raise the gain until the noise floor starts to rise and then stop. More precisely, when it starts to rise you back it off a little. Gain set too low: https://i.imgur.com/RafmluQ.jpg Correct gain setting: https://i.imgur.com/7E42YTv.jpg Gain set too high: https://i.imgur.com/RMT569M.jpg With the RSP1A and Airspy R2 you adjust the gain and other contols for max SNR. Good luck with your adventure. |
Quote:
I will not post any images without your permission. |
Quote:
I think you have done a good job finding the best antenna location available on your property without going to extreme measures like a push-up mast with guy wires in the back yard. Your signal report indicates that a preamp isn't necessary, but the actual signals arriving at your antenna might be weaker because of the trees. The only other possibility I can think of is an antenna with a wider beamwidth. If you used two antennas, one for each direction, there would be the problem of combining them or having to switch them. https://i.imgur.com/THktXAU.jpg Channels checked: 4-1 (KRDK) COZI, Real channel 24, 324.8 deg True, Signal Margin 39 dB 6-1 (WDAY) ABC, Real channel 21, 306.1 deg True, Signal Margin 68 dB 11-1 (KVLY) NBC/CBS, Real channel 36, 331.6 deg True, Signal Margin 53 dB 13-1 (KFME) PBS, Real channel 13, 307.5 deg True, Signal Margin 59 dB 15-1 (KVRR) Fox, Real channel 19, 111.7 deg True, Signal Margin 56 dB 28-1 (K28MA) CBS/CW, Real channel 28, 331.6 deg True, Signal Margin 40 dB 30-1 (KXJB) CBS/CW, Real channel 30, 101.7 deg True, Signal Margin 60 dB Quote:
|
Quote:
Thank you for the UHF scan; nicely done. KVRR virtual 15-1 RF 19 shows a little more than the minimum SNR for reception, but could be a problem at times WDAY virtual 6-1 RF 21 is your strongest channel; shouldn't be a problem KRDK virtual 4-1 RF 24 is a little stronger than KVRR; could be a problem at times K28MA virtual 28-1 RF 28 is very weak; doesn't look strong enough for tuner lock in this scan KXJB virtual 30-1 RF 30 is fairly strong but shows possible multipath problem. It is listed as second in strength after WDAY, but is a low power station https://www.rabbitears.info/tvq.php?...s&facid=185885 KVLY virtual 11-1 RF 36 shows just barely enough SNR for a tuner lock and would be expected to have problems This is my UHF; CH 14 doesn't decode. I like to show the settings and have added arbitrary numbers to the gain scale. I bring the gain up until the noise floor just starts to rise and stop, which should show the correct SNR. https://i.imgur.com/bHeqKJF.jpg The weak signals got a little better this evening: Videos, no audio https://www.dropbox.com/s/eusj9k25wg...08-07.mp4?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/eusj9k25wg...08-07.mp4?dl=1 Here is FM and VHF-High, no audio CH 7 is around 175 MHz; it is damaged by multipath and doesn't decode CH 11 is around 200 MHz and usually does OK; the noise level is high https://www.dropbox.com/s/fnjyuttou2...54-35.mp4?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/fnjyuttou2...54-35.mp4?dl=1 |
Quote:
I will try to find some antenna patterns; they are getting hard to find. |
All times are GMT. The time now is 5:47 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright © TV Fool, LLC