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-   -   Lost all VHF stations (http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=16549)

blackstone 13-Jan-2019 2:46 PM

Lost all VHF stations
 
I was happily getting all the stations that were available to me on VHF and UHF until a week and a half ago.

I received a lot of great patient help here in this thread a couple years ago.
http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=16358

Forgive the long post and hope you will help me again.
Thanks, in advance.

About 10 days ago we had some pretty high winds that spun my CM VHF antenna around and pulled the cable out of it's connector.
After several failed attempts to put on a new end, I bought a new 50' cable.

There was still a section of cable I couldn't reach because the connections were too high above my roof line to reach and it's a bit of a chore to drop the antenna and raise it again.

I got a new antenna from Antennas Direct; a ClearStream 5.
Moved it away from the metal roof and it's 16'-18' high.

It's pointed around 220.

Before, I got the following VHF stations:
WPCW 11 (RF) 19 Virtual
WTOV 9 9
WQED 13 13
WWCP 8 8

After I only get WWCP.
I shouldn't get this because it's in a way different direction.

I got a Klein continuity tester.
Connected to the coax that runs to the antenna,
It reads "Open"

Not sure what that means or how to fix the problem.

The cable is connected to the balun on one end and a pre-amp on the other

Nascarken 13-Jan-2019 4:43 PM

So what kind of ANTENNA were you using before the antenna Direct?
If you were using a Winegrud 8200U the best ANTENNA for the money
but it sounds like you will have to get a new balun
For it that is what happens to them that is why you have lots
your vhf channels GO to solied SIGNAL.com for a new balun
Cost is like $20dollars+shipping

blackstone 13-Jan-2019 8:54 PM

Thanks for your response, Nascarken.

I was using a Channel Master directional antenna; about 30 years old.
Since I didn't know if these things deteriorate, I bought the ClearStream.

I discovered that Antennas Direct is open 7 days and was able to contact them.

The first rep said to get a new coax to replace the new coax.
After doing that, I still had an open circuit.

The second rep diagnosed a bad balun, too, and they are sending one out at no charge.

One of the other things that puzzled me is why I'm getting WWCP 8.
Even now with the VHF completely disconnected.

I'm guessing that I get it through their UHF channel 23 even though it shows up on 8 when I scan

Nascarken 14-Jan-2019 3:38 PM

Yes that's true and why is that it's becuse of your amp will some time's pull in vhf channels.And antnnas Direct is good when it comes to their antennas they stand behind
their products

blackstone 14-Jan-2019 7:53 PM

Thanks Nascarken

blackstone 29-Mar-2019 3:35 PM

Rather than start a new thread, I thought I'd resurrect this one because it is still related.

Thanks, in advance, for your suggestions.

After replacing the balun, I still wasn't able to get much reception.

I figured out that my Channel Master amp went bad.
Upon replacement, I got lots of stations again.
For a short while, that is.

I have lost all but one of my VHF stations and can't get them back.
The stations I have lost are:
WPCW 19 which was one of my strongest stations. I was able to get that, almost, with the antenna on the ground. Now, it is very weak and pixelated.

WTOV 9. This one was a long ways off but came in real well. Nothing now.

WQED 13. This wasn't a terribly strong station but it usually came in.

(I have, also, lost WPGH 53 (virtual) and this is the only UHF station I can't get.)

It is my understanding that WQED has moved to low on the VHF band and reduced power.
I was told that WPGH has also moved down to real channel 20.

Right now, the Clear Stream gets WWCO 8 because I pointed it there to get a Fox channel and it's strong.

I have tried from 180 to 245 degrees trying to pick up some of the lost stations but nothing.

I have about one week to decide to return the Clear Stream to Antennas Direct and go back to a directional antenna.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Nascarken 29-Mar-2019 5:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackstone (Post 61026)
Rather than start a new thread, I thought I'd resurrect this one because it is still related.

Thanks, in advance, for your suggestions.

After replacing the balun, I still wasn't able to get much reception.

I figured out that my Channel Master amp went bad.
Upon replacement, I got lots of stations again.
For a short while, that is.

I have lost all but one of my VHF stations and can't get them back.
The stations I have lost are:
WPCW 19 which was one of my strongest stations. I was able to get that, almost, with the antenna on the ground. Now, it is very weak and pixelated.

WTOV 9. This one was a long ways off but came in real well. Nothing now.

WQED 13. This wasn't a terribly strong station but it usually came in.

(I have, also, lost WPGH 53 (virtual) and this is the only UHF station I can't get.)

It is my understanding that WQED has moved to low on the VHF band and reduced power.
I was told that WPGH has also moved down to real channel 20.

Right now, the Clear Stream gets WWCO 8 because I pointed it there to get a Fox channel and it's strong.

I have tried from 180 to 245 degrees trying to pick up some of the lost stations but nothing.

I have about one week to decide to return the Clear Stream to Antennas Direct and go back to a directional antenna.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

For what you payed yes you should .

ADTech 29-Mar-2019 5:18 PM

Please contact our customer tech support directly for assistance, the contact form link is in my signature below.

blackstone 29-Mar-2019 6:32 PM

ADTech, I have been in touch with customer support.
I forgot to mention that.

Their solution was to point my Clear Stream at WWCP 8 to get Fox. I did that

No suggestions on how to get the CW, forget about WQED and maybe raising or lowering my UHF may get channel 53 back.

blackstone 30-Mar-2019 9:17 AM

By the way, I'm not knocking Antennas Direct.

I happen to think they're a company with integrity.

I'm just trying to get the same stations I got recently that have disappeared

JoeAZ 30-Mar-2019 2:08 PM

You may just be encountering the repack in your area.
I suggest you rescan and see if any of those stations
come in again.

Nascarken 30-Mar-2019 2:20 PM

Yes fcc suggests that you rescan all TV do too the repacking of BROADCASTING channel's
And you might have to bring your antenna up 10ft more and did you get a new channels master amp!!

blackstone 30-Mar-2019 3:00 PM

Thanks for the suggestions.

I rescan (almost) daily with no effect.

Antennas Direct support said that one station, WPGH 53, moved from real 43 to 20.
I think they said that it would improve the signal through the hills but decrease it through the trees (or something like that.)

WQED 13 moved from real 13 to 2 and cut their power.
The tech said I might need a low VHF directional antenna.

The other two stations are a mystery.

I was looking at replacing my Clear Stream 5 with something like a Channel Master 3020 or 5020.

I can't determine if the 3020 is a low VHF antenna or not.

Also, looking for the reception angle for the 3020.
Supposedly the 5020 is this:

Reception angles:
VHF L (channels 2-6, and FM) 63 degrees
VHF H (channels 7-13) 34 degrees
UHF 39 degrees

Nascarken 30-Mar-2019 9:52 PM

Yes sounds like the channel master is a good pick.

blackstone 30-Mar-2019 10:00 PM

I ended up doing a return on the Clear Stream and ordered a CM 5020.
Several things were factors in the decision to go with this one.
The weight and size are a little smaller so I'm hoping it will handle winds a little better on the mast.
Reception angles and it states low VHF.

If Antenna Direct had a VHF antenna like that, I would have, probably, gone with them again because I think they are a decent company

Nascarken 30-Mar-2019 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackstone (Post 61054)
I ended up doing a return on the Clear Stream and ordered a CM 5020.
Several things were factors in the decision to go with this one.
The weight and size are a little smaller so I'm hoping it will handle winds a little better on the mast.
Reception angles and it states low VHF.

If Antenna Direct had a VHF antenna like that, I would have, probably, gone with them again because I think they are a decent company

You should have went with the 3020,IT'S better for the low vhf.&
Suggest you should use a channel master 7778AMP
We'll good luck let us know what happens with it when you install it.

blackstone 30-Mar-2019 10:34 PM

The 3020 was cheaper, too.
If I could have found info that stated low VHF, I may have gone that route.

I do have a channel master amp that's only a month old and a pretty new pre-amp.

Looks to be about a week for the new antenna to be ready for pick up.
I'll be back

Nascarken 30-Mar-2019 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackstone (Post 61056)
The 3020 was cheaper, too.
If I could have found info that stated low VHF, I may have gone that route.

I do have a channel master amp that's only a month old and a pretty new pre-amp.

Looks to be about a week for the new antenna to be ready for pick up.
I'll be back

You should have looked at SOLiD single.com
and I didn't know if you had an amplifier
So how hi up are you going with the channel master.
But I think you should have went with the 3020.
I think it's more of what you are looking for.
The 5020 is more hi band vhf,than low the 5020
Came out when the hi vh f Took off
The 3020 has a better RECEIVE on low band vhf.
Go to SOLiD single.com and check it out.

blackstone 30-Mar-2019 10:56 PM

Thanks for that info, nascarken.

The antenna is, probably, going up 16'-18'.
I may have understood what you meant by the amp.
I have a CM amp/splitter in my basement.
I'd have to check the model

What is the link you are sending me to?
I looked at solidsingle dot com and that isn't valid

Nascarken 30-Mar-2019 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackstone (Post 61058)
Thanks for that info, nascarken.

The antenna is, probably, going up 16'-18'.
I may have understood what you meant by the amp.
I have a CM amp/splitter in my basement.
I'd have to check the model

What is the link you are sending me to?
I looked at solidsingle dot com and that isn't valid

Two word's SOLiD single.com

Tower Guy 31-Mar-2019 1:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nascarken (Post 61059)
Two word's SOLiD single.com

You probably mean solidsignal.com

blackstone 12-Apr-2019 10:58 PM

Here's an update and a few more questions, please, if you will indulge me.

Received and installed the CM 5020 this week.
So, I am using it as well as the DB8-E.

Most of the lost stations have re-appeared.
Some aren't quite watchable yet.
Hopefully, a little tweak will help.

I got back WPCW 19 the CW and WTOV Channel 9.
WPGH 53 is so-so.
I am picking up WQED 13 PBS but it's not watchable.

An oddity (to me) was when I had no VHF antenna connected I received WWCP 8 better than I do with an antenna.

I seem to have lost strength on a couple stations that are UHF.
WTAE 4 and WJAC 6.
These were real strong with the DB8-E only but go in and out now that I have both.

Is there some conflict with using these two antennas?
The Channel Master is @ 18' and pointing at 225
I haven't moved the DB 8E in months.
It is 12' and @ 210

Thanks, again, for any insights

Tim 13-Apr-2019 2:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackstone (Post 61223)
Here's an update and a few more questions, please, if you will indulge me.

Received and installed the CM 5020 this week.
So, I am using it as well as the DB8-E.

Most of the lost stations have re-appeared.
Some aren't quite watchable yet.
Hopefully, a little tweak will help.

I got back WPCW 19 the CW and WTOV Channel 9.
WPGH 53 is so-so.
I am picking up WQED 13 PBS but it's not watchable.

An oddity (to me) was when I had no VHF antenna connected I received WWCP 8 better than I do with an antenna.

I seem to have lost strength on a couple stations that are UHF.
WTAE 4 and WJAC 6.
These were real strong with the DB8-E only but go in and out now that I have both.

Is there some conflict with using these two antennas?
The Channel Master is @ 18' and pointing at 225
I haven't moved the DB 8E in months.
It is 12' and @ 210

Thanks, again, for any insights

So do you have both the antennas connected together using a common splitter? If so, you may be having signals arriving at each antenna out of phase and cancelling each other out

blackstone 13-Apr-2019 2:41 AM

Thanks for the response, Tim.

Each antenna is on the same mast with separate lines coming into the house with separate pre-amps.

They are separate until they combine at a combiner to go into my distribution amp
Hope this is what you are asking

Tim 13-Apr-2019 2:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackstone (Post 61228)
Thanks for the response, Tim.

Each antenna is on the same mast with separate lines coming into the house with separate pre-amps.

They are separate until they combine at a combiner to go into my distribution amp
Hope this is what you are asking

Yes, so what are you using for a combiner?

blackstone 13-Apr-2019 2:53 AM

Something I got from Antennas Direct several years ago, I think.


It looks like a splitter turned around but it's not.
I have been using it since I got a second antenna way back.

I tried the splitters turned around and they didn't work.
This has worked for quite a while

blackstone 13-Apr-2019 9:54 AM

The combiner is a Channelplus and it says combiner/splitter.

Since I woke up in the middle of the night and couldn't get back to sleep I decided to test something.

I disconnected the DB 8-E to see what I could get.
I continued to get WTOV 9, WQED 13 a little better and WPCW 19 as well as WPGH 53.
All VHF stations except for 53.

Then, I disconnected the Channel Master.
This allowed WTAE 4, WPXI 11 and WJAC 6 to come in clear and strong again but no 53.

This implies there is some kind of conflict but I have no idea how to fix it.

Nascarken 13-Apr-2019 1:02 PM

That is what happens when you do not use one feed line for uhf&one for vh f
With an A/B switcher.

JoeAZ 13-Apr-2019 2:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackstone (Post 61228)
Thanks for the response, Tim.

Each antenna is on the same mast with separate lines coming into the house with separate pre-amps.

They are separate until they combine at a combiner to go into my distribution amp
Hope this is what you are asking

You are correct in your assessment that there is a cancellation effect
going on. You need to keep the two antennas separate all the way
to each tv. You can accomplish that by either using an A/B switch
or a separate tuner at each tv. You then need to readjust each antenna
because that cancellation could have caused mis-aiming.

Nascarken 13-Apr-2019 4:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeAZ (Post 61239)
You are correct in your assessment that there is a cancellation effect
going on. You need to keep the two antennas separate all the way
to each tv. You can accomplish that by either using an A/B switch
or a separate tuner at each tv. You then need to readjust each antenna
because that cancellation could have caused mis-aiming.

We'll if IT'S A hi gain ANTENNA like the seller's LAB antennas Direct 91at
Is a hi gain ANTENNA manufactures say that DISTRIBUTION AMP
Can all so can cause the same problem they fight one other.

blackstone 13-Apr-2019 6:00 PM

Nascarken, unless I misunderstand you, I have separate feeds up to the distribution amp where they are combined.

This is how I have been doing it for almost a couple years and just now experiencing it.

Joe AZ, also, why is this just now manifesting?

Is it because of the new Channel Master?

When the Clearstream 5 from Antennas Direct was hooked up with the DB 8 E, it wasn't a problem.

JoeAZ 13-Apr-2019 8:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackstone (Post 61243)
Nascarken, unless I misunderstand you, I have separate feeds up to the distribution amp where they are combined.

This is how I have been doing it for almost a couple years and just now experiencing it.

Joe AZ, also, why is this just now manifesting?

Is it because of the new Channel Master?


When the Clearstream 5 from Antennas Direct was hooked up with the DB 8 E, it wasn't a problem.

Yes, more than likely. The Channel Master and Clearstream 5 are very
different antennas. How they interact with your DB8-E are also very
different when combined.

Nascarken 13-Apr-2019 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeAZ (Post 61246)
Yes, more than likely. The Channel Master and Clearstream 5 are very
different antennas. How they interact with your DB8-E are also very
different when combined.

Both antennas are hi gain ANTENNA 's

blackstone 14-Apr-2019 12:36 AM

Is there a plain old VHF antenna that won't cause this problem?
I don't think I want to monkey around with AB switches on every TV

blackstone 14-Apr-2019 1:33 AM

And to complicate things,(for me at least), the bedroom TV gets some of the stations I don't get on the living room TV.

They are both cheap Element tvs.

bobsgarage 14-Apr-2019 2:12 AM

I feel your pain brother
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by blackstone (Post 61252)
Is there a plain old VHF antenna that won't cause this problem?
I don't think I want to monkey around with AB switches on every TV

Hi, I've been reading your thread with some interest. I am by no means an expert. But the one thing I have learned in the past few years is combining antennas is usually unsuccessful. Combining a UHF antenna with a VHF antenna usually works well if you use a UVSJ combiner. Or a UHF / VHF combining amp like the RCA PREAMP 1R

Combining dissimilar antennas of the same band almost never works. Especially if they are pointing in different directions. in fact that's a double whammy.

Pointing two duplicate antennas in the same direction does work however. I had to prove it to myself and I can tell you that's the only way it seems to work.

Unfortunately, many people just don't know that that's how it is. I wouldn't say I learned the hard way because I ended up with two excellent arrays. I just can't combine them. Even when I do combine them I get most of my strong stations but I will lose the weaker ones. For example if I do a scan with the antennas combined, I will get about 80 stations. If I separate the antennas I will get about 97 stations a lot of them off the back side of the highly directional antennas.

BTW, instead of an A/B switch I use two different tuners and switch the inputs on the TV. I have my inputs labeled "Chicago" and "Milwaukee"

bobsgarage 14-Apr-2019 2:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackstone (Post 61252)
Is there a plain old VHF antenna that won't cause this problem?
I don't think I want to monkey around with AB switches on every TV

a VHF only antenna? I highly recommend this Stellar labs 30 - 2476. It's an extremely well performing antenna and it's relatively inexpensive. As far as I know only one supplier sells it. I have two of them and I'm very satisfied with the durability, ease of assembly and performance.

https://www.newark.com/stellar-labs/...P_LastViewed_3

That Channel Master 5020 should be doing just fine with VHF. That's a very big antenna and has a large elements. Much larger elements than the Stellar labs VHF antenna. Which tells me the 5020 is VHF low too.

blackstone 14-Apr-2019 2:33 AM

Thanks, Bob, for your input.

I'm a techno-dunce and don't understand this stuff very much.

Do you have an example of a product that is a tuner so I could learn about them?

If I understand, my Channel Master and my DB 8 E are dissimilar antennas.

If I combine them with the right pre-amp I may have success?

Right now, my UHF antenna is powered with an Antennas Direct PA 18 UHF/VHF pre amp kit.
I'd had thought of connecting both antennas to it but didn't have the cables on hand when I hooked the antennas up

blackstone 14-Apr-2019 2:36 AM

I thought I liked the CM 5020 because I'm getting the stations I lost.
But with it messing up the other UHF stations I was looking at othjer solutions

Tim 14-Apr-2019 2:53 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Here's is a question for you: Are you using the CM5020 just for receiving VHF channels and the DB8E just for receiving UHF channels? If so, then you could combine them using a UVSJ combiner. If not, then you might could use a custom combiner designed for your specific channels. It all depends on which specific channels you want to receive on each antenna.

There is an eBay seller jan_jenca in Slovakia who custom makes the combiners at reasonable prices. I have ordered from him and was very pleased with the product. He also has a web site. http://www.antenne-komponenty.eu/eng...zlucovace.html


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