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Tim 15-Apr-2019 7:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackstone (Post 61313)
Sorry for any confusion.
The PA 18 is connected to the DB 8E with a 3' cable.
Then 50' cable is connected to the PA 18 to the power inserter with 3' cable to the combiner

Thanks for clarifying the UVSJ.

As you can tell, I understand as much about electronics as I do rocket surgery

No worries. Just trying to get a full picture of what you have since I can't lay eyes on it.

Another question...are both of your antennas mounted on the same mast? Or are they located some distance apart?

blackstone 15-Apr-2019 7:17 PM

Yes.
Sort of.
The UHF is mounted on a piece of conduit attached to and old wooden pole that, previously, had a dusk to dawn light.
The center of the antenna is approx. 12-13' above ground.

The VHF is on a separate mast attached to the same wooden pole and Approx. 18' above ground

blackstone 15-Apr-2019 7:18 PM

Would a picture help?

bobsgarage 16-Apr-2019 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackstone (Post 61315)
Yes.
Sort of.
The UHF is mounted on a piece of conduit attached to and old wooden pole that, previously, had a dusk to dawn light.
The center of the antenna is approx. 12-13' above ground.

The VHF is on a separate mast attached to the same wooden pole and Approx. 18' above ground

Just for your information, the UHF should always be above the VHF. I could go into it but it has to do with signals and signal strength and how the signal comes in etc... But as a general rule put the UHF above the VHF.

Unless for some reason there is a tree branch right in front of the upper part of the antenna as UHF as more sensitive to trees and leaves Etc....

blackstone 16-Apr-2019 12:51 AM

Thanks for that info, Bob.
Antenna Direct mentioned that a while back, too.

I'd hate to change them around because I have the DB 8E zoned in and not sure how long it would take to get it back.

Since it seems that I'm getting good signal now, is it important?
Would that have anything to do with my current situation?

ADTech 16-Apr-2019 1:36 AM

Quote:

the UHF should always be above the VHF.
I wouldn't say that... but i would say this instead...
Quote:

But as a general rule put the UHF above the VHF.
Normal convention is for the UHF to be above the VHF, but it's not a rule carved in stone as there are always exceptions. I tell folks to do whichever works best. Once that is found, leave it alone. ;)

blackstone 16-Apr-2019 1:55 AM

Thanks, ADTech.

As I said above, it seems the signal is good but getting mixed up.

Hopefully, the UVSJ will sort those things out.

Tim 16-Apr-2019 4:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackstone (Post 61316)
Would a picture help?

I think we are good now. I will modify the diagram of your system tomorrow when I get a chance.

blackstone 16-Apr-2019 11:27 AM

Appreciate all the effort

Nascarken 16-Apr-2019 1:32 PM

Yes that's true that is why you should stack 91xg side by side.

blackstone 16-Apr-2019 1:39 PM

Thanks, nascarken.

Is "91xg" an antenna?

bobsgarage 16-Apr-2019 3:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackstone (Post 61321)
Thanks for that info, Bob.
Antenna Direct mentioned that a while back, too.

I'd hate to change them around because I have the DB 8E zoned in and not sure how long it would take to get it back.

Since it seems that I'm getting good signal now, is it important?
Would that have anything to do with my current situation?

AD Tech is correct, it's not a steadfast rule, merely a strong suggestion to put the UHF antenna above the VHF antenna. So, for now, you can just try the antenna position the way it is and if you like what you have, keep it that way.

I do have a suggestion on keeping the same aim on your DB8e. You can take a 3 or 4 or better yet a 5-foot foot level and scribe a line with a Sharpie on your mast. Make a corresponding alignment mark on your clamp.

Loosen the clamps, slide the antenna down and line up your marks again. That should keep the aim exactly as how you had it. As you've already figured out you will have to remove the other antenna to do this.

Just an idea.


bobsgarage 16-Apr-2019 3:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackstone (Post 61329)
Thanks, nascarken.

Is "91xg" an antenna?

91 XG is an excellent highly directional antenna made by Antennas Direct. One of the highest gain UHF only antennas in the industry.

If you ever decide to order one, call Antennas Direct, and have them match the Amazon price including the shipping. They will do it, and you will get to spend some quality time with some excellent customer service people and see how it's really done!

It will take longer to get it from them because they will ship it the cheapest way possible. If you're in a hurry then Amazon is the best way, you can get it in one day or even the same day if you're close to a shipping center.

I ordered mine and waited. Yes, it took a little longer but I was happy that Antenna Direct got the full profit on the reduced-price. I call it loyalty.

It's a good company.!

Nascarken 16-Apr-2019 3:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobsgarage (Post 61331)
AD Tech is correct, it's not a steadfast rule, merely a strong suggestion to put the UHF antenna above the VHF antenna. So, for now, you can just try the antenna position the way it is and if you like what you have, keep it that way.

I do have a suggestion on keeping the same aim on your DB8e. You can take a 3 or 4 or better yet a 5-foot foot level and scribe a line with a Sharpie on your mast. Make a corresponding alignment mark on your clamp.

Loosen the clamps, slide the antenna down and line up your marks again. That should keep the aim exactly as how you had it. As you've already figured out you will have to remove the other antenna to do this.

Just an idea.


I suggest you try too put the db8 on a 35degree agl it will in prove your receive the same way you put a satilight dish on an agl

Nascarken 16-Apr-2019 3:59 PM

antennas Direct 91xg
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bobsgarage (Post 61332)
91 XG is an excellent highly directional antenna made by Antennas Direct. One of the highest gain UHF only antennas in the industry.

If you ever decide to order one call Antennas Direct, and have them match the Amazon price including the shipping. They will do it, and you will get to spend some time with some excellent customer service people and see how it's really done!

It will take longer to get it from them because they will ship it the cheapest way possible. If you're in a hurry then Amazon this the best way, you can get it in one day or even thesame day if you're close to a shipping center.

I ordered mine and waited.yes it took a little longer I was happy that Antenna Direct got the full profit on the reduced-price. I call it loyalty.


is one of the best ANTENNA for uhf RECEIVE range that I
Got out of it was 90miles away higt h of the antenna was 100ft hi with a channel master 7777AMP and look around for the best price.
And know I use an 8200u for its hi&low band vh F and at the beginning of the 8200u are 91x g

blackstone 16-Apr-2019 4:13 PM

I really appreciate that everyone is sticking with me on this.

Is there somewhere I can make a donation to offset the expenses of running the site or something?

I see that aligning my DB 8E again wouldn't be too hard but I would have to revamp my set up.
It may come down to that but I'll avoid it until all other options are tried.

As I mentioned above, each antenna is on a separate mast attached to a wooden pole.
The DB is on the south side of that pole and the CM is on the north side.
If I ever need to adjust the DB, I just need to loosen the clamps and it will pivot around an axis; the utility pole.
Because of the design of the CM, it needs to be higher than the pole the mast is attached to.

I'm getting a lot of stations right now with the separate antennas in the present configuration.
If the UVSJ does the job, I think I'm set.
Hopefully.

Regarding the 91XG, I hope I don't need to buy any more antennas.
I would gladly buy anything I could from Antennas Direct.

If they had a VHF antenna that worked for me, I would have gotten it from them.
The Clear Stream 5 didn't work for me.

I trust them.
They earned it the very first time I contacted them and they didn't try to sell me an antenna.

With all the internet charlatans out there, it was nice to find someone who was trustworthy.

Nascarken, I may try that down the road a little

ADTech 16-Apr-2019 5:48 PM

Quote:

I suggest you try too put the db8 on a 35degree agl it will in prove your receive the same way you put a satilight dish on an agl
No. Do NOT do this, it is very unlikely to help and would more likely cause a reduction of reception due to the signal now coming in below the vertical reception pattern.

The antenna should not be aimed at the sky. If there's any tilting to be done on a panel antenna, it would have to be done by adjusting the angle of the mast itself.

As a general starting point, unless you are staring point blank into a cliff or bluff, just put it on a vertical mast so it's aimed in a plane parallel to the earth. There may be times when an upward tilt might be useful, but they are best dealt with on an individual basis after actual consideration of the pros and cons.

blackstone 16-Apr-2019 7:28 PM

ADTech, I'm a believer in not monkeying with something that seems to be working.

I'm getting pretty much everything that's available to me.
Right now, I disconnect one antenna or the other

Tim 16-Apr-2019 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobsgarage (Post 61332)
91 XG is an excellent highly directional antenna made by Antennas Direct. One of the highest gain UHF only antennas in the industry.


The 91XG is an excellent antenna and is what I use. However, looking at the specs the DB8E actually has a little more gain and a narrower beamwidth. It should be doing just as good or a bit better job than the 91XG would do for him.

Tim 16-Apr-2019 11:18 PM

1 Attachment(s)
OK, I think we now have a good idea of just how your antenna system is laid out. Here is the latest iteration.

When you get your UVSJ you can install it in place of the combiner/splitter you have but just leave your distribution amp in place and see what the results are.

Then leave the UVSJ in place and replace the distribution amp with your 4 port splitter and see what the results are.

Be sure and check your results on all 4 TV sets because there is some variation of tuners built into the TVs.

We are all waiting to hear your results.

blackstone 16-Apr-2019 11:27 PM

Quote:

We are all waiting to hear your results.
None as anxious as me.
LOL.

Thanks for your help

blackstone 17-Apr-2019 12:12 PM

I have the DB 8E at the recommendation of Antennas Direct, nascarken.
I suppose they looked at my location and what stations I wanted to get.

It receives a wide range.
I get signals from Pittsburgh and a Johnstown station, which is, I think, 50 degrees off from the Pittsburgh stations.

It seems the reception issue is solved, for now.
If the UVSJ solves the conflict between the signals.

I appreciate all your input throughout this thread.

If I ever wanted to get another antenna, I would look at the 91xg.
But, at 69, I hope what I have outlasts me.

rabbit73 17-Apr-2019 3:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackstone (Post 61302)
One last question, please?
(Until the next last question)

Rabbit73's post just made me wonder something.

I have an Antennas Direct Combiner. Also located my second PA 18 preamp.

Would the Antennas Direct combiner work and not need the UVSJ?
I would put the Pa 18 pre amp on my VHF and eliminate the Winegard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobsgarage (Post 61303)
If the name of the Antennas Direct component is a combiner it is probably not a UVSJ so do not use it unless it says it to UVSJ

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackstone (Post 61304)
Thanks for the fast reply, Bob.

Here's what it says on the site:
This all-weather antenna combiner merges the signals from a UHF antenna with a VHF antenna on the same cable. Coaxial cable sold separately.
•DC Power Pass on UHF Port
•Insertion loss: VHF-IN/OUT 54-88 NHz 0.5dB; 174-216 Mhz 0.5dB; UHF-IN/OUT 470-698 0.8dB
•Return loss: IN/OUT 54-88 Mhz 18db; 174-216 18dB; 470-698 MHz 12dB
•Return loss: VHF 54-88 18dB; 174-216 18dB
•Return loss: UHF 470-698 12dB
•Isolation: VHF-UHF 54-88 30dB; 174-216dB, 470-698 30dB

Helpful Tips:

The DC power pass on the UHF port allows for UHF-only amplification in special circumstances. For example, when UHF signals require amplification, but the VHF signals may not. Or your household has an existing amplified antenna, but also needs to add a separate VHF antenna that doesn't need amplification.

It says diplexer on the picture

That is a UVSJ (UHF/VHF Separator-Joiner), which is also called a diplexer or UHF/VHF combiner. You can use it after the power inserter for the UHF PA18 or after the two power inserters for two PA18s.

https://i.imgur.com/9AIJgp3.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/6ArtK0x.jpg

blackstone 17-Apr-2019 3:59 PM

Thanks for that, Rabbit 73.
As soon as I get some help this evening to drop the mast to retrieve mine, I'll try it out.

Won't have to wait for my UVSJs to get here.

If anyone has a need for one, I have 5 UVSJs coming.

I'll give them away

rabbit73 17-Apr-2019 4:55 PM

Don't give them all away, keep a few as spares.

Good luck.

blackstone 17-Apr-2019 6:05 PM

At least one.

They had a $10 minimum order and they were only $2.49

Tim 17-Apr-2019 7:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabbit73 (Post 61350)
That is a UVSJ (UHF/VHF Separator-Joiner), which is also called a diplexer or UHF/VHF combiner. You can use it after the power inserter for the UHF PA18 or after the two power inserters for two PA18s.

https://i.imgur.com/9AIJgp3.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/6ArtK0x.jpg

So is the the inserter/combiner that Blackstone indicates he had in his antenna system???
-----
Edit: Never mind, I reread a few times and I understand now. He had the Antennas Direct version of a UVSJ on hand all along, just not installed in his system. Great! Hopefully he can install that and get things working properly.

blackstone 17-Apr-2019 8:26 PM

When I installed the CM, originally I planned to combine it with the DB but my cables were too short so it's just hanging on the mast.

Unless there is a good reason not to do it, I'm thinking of putting the second PA 18 preamp up to replace the Winegard while I have it on the ground.

Tim 17-Apr-2019 8:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackstone (Post 61355)
When I installed the CM, originally I planned to combine it with the DB but my cables were too short so it's just hanging on the mast.

Unless there is a good reason not to do it, I'm thinking of putting the second PA 18 preamp up to replace the Winegard while I have it on the ground.

No reason not to do so. Just double check after you install the PA18 and make sure you are still getting all your VHF stations. If so, then install your Antennas Direct UVSJ combiner.

blackstone 17-Apr-2019 8:48 PM

Sounds good.
Thanks

blackstone 17-Apr-2019 11:54 PM

Preliminary results.

It appears we have success.

I am cautiously optimistic, anyhow.

Dropped my mast so I could retrieve my combiner, installed the other Pa 18 preamp on the VHF.
Put the combiner on the TV side of the power inserters.

Left the distribution amp connected.

Scanned 42 stations.
Several aren't watchable and shouldn't even show up due to distance and direction.
Have all my VHF and UHF stations that are available.

Once again, I really appreciate all the generous, patient help so many of you gave.
Thank you.

I'll follow up in a day or two to verify it stuck

Tim 18-Apr-2019 4:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackstone (Post 61358)
Preliminary results.

It appears we have success.

I am cautiously optimistic, anyhow.

...

I'll follow up in a day or two to verify it stuck

Great! Once you get your 4 port splitter, you might want to try it in place of the distribution amp just to see what the results are and report back.

blackstone 18-Apr-2019 10:26 AM

I have it and will give it a try today.
I was so excited that everything worked that I stopped.

It may be my imagination, but several stations that came in when one or the other antennas was disconnected seem weak.
It shouldn't be related to installing the PA 18 preamp on the vhf because these are uhf stations.

It could be atmospheric, too

Tim 18-Apr-2019 6:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackstone (Post 61363)
I have it and will give it a try today.

It may be my imagination, but several stations that came in when one or the other antennas was disconnected seem weak.

What do you mean by "seem weak"? Was the video pixelated? Or were you looking at some type of signal strength or signal quality test on a TV set?

blackstone 18-Apr-2019 6:13 PM

Couple stations took a while to load or show.
When I went to the channel menu those stations were "weak"

The signal strength is either "good", "normal" or "weak"

Right now, everything is watchable

Tim 18-Apr-2019 6:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nascarken (Post 61371)
Wow that's a lot of insert loss!!!

Insertion loss of 0.5 to 0.8 dB is negligible.

bobsgarage 19-Apr-2019 2:30 AM

Attention Nascarken !!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nascarken (Post 61371)
Wow that's a lot of insert loss!!!
I would love to see ADTECK' b.nis card!!
Like antenna Direct marketing
said to ask for.

Nascarken, you need to stop trolling everybody's threads. You trolled my thread to the point that everybody complained and Admin had to eliminate your posts about not believing AD Tech is an employee of Antennas Direct. It's already been proven to you. I already told you I talked to Ben at Antennas Direct, and got a personal e-mail from AD Tech. (not "AD teck")

And, you called Rabbit a liar. You didn't believe the photo he posted from the newspaper article was actually AD Tech. It takes a lot to get under his skin and you did it! I never saw where you apologized to him.

I'm going to submit a complaint about your trolling. (Again)


Everybody's tired of hearing about your set up. Everybody has a different need for different antennas and preamps. Just because your's works great for your situation doesn't mean everybody needs a Johanssen amp and 2 "Winegrud" 8200U's 2 91XGs on a 150 foot Tower.

Get it? Not everybody needs your setup.!

Now, go away. Stop trolling.


Tim 19-Apr-2019 2:48 AM

2 Attachment(s)
BobsGarage,

If there are group members whose posts you don't want to see, you can click on their Username, click on User Lists, click on Add to Ignore List.

From then on you will see that they posted something, but you won't see what they posted. It cleans up the threads nicely.

rabbit73 19-Apr-2019 4:16 PM

Thank you, Bob, Tim, and jrgagne99.

Tim 21-Apr-2019 11:25 PM

Blackstone, now that you've had a few days to observe, how are things working out for you?


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