Guelph Ontario - Help on Antennas and equipment
 

Hello,

I am in the south end of Guelph Ontario and just cut off my cable. I can only recieve CTV Kitchener with the antennas I've tried from Futureshop. Now I need help from the pros.

Can someone guide me on the best set up to hook up to three TVs. I would love an attic installation but understand if I have to risk falling off my roof to get better reception. Or hiring a professional.

Here is my report

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...1dda24ec10a011

Any guidance on equipment, reputable vendors and installers near my location would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

DonT

Looking at the tvfool Pending Applications Included , OTA=Over The Air , Digital Broadcast Tv stations/channels List.

I see that the first 4 Canada Digital Broadcast Tv stations/channels , in the Green reception zone of the tvfool channel list are , medium signal strength , Are LOS=Line of sight , and fairly close at about 20 miles away , thats all good.

The rest of the Canada Digital Broadcast Tv stations are , Much Weaker of signal strength , are not LOS and are further away. This situation is not so good.

For Reliable reception of the Canada Digital Broadcast Tv stations/channels to the , east and south west.

Above The Roof of the house in such a manner that reception is not blocked by the roof and house.

Install a Winegard HD7696P antenna with a Winegard HDP-269 preamp aimed at about 86 degree magnetic compass direction , East.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html , for reception of the Weaker Canada Digital Broadcast Tv stations/channels.

The Stronger Canada Digital Broadcast Tv stations/channels in the Green reception zone of the tvfool channel list that are the direction of south west will be received thru/at the back angle of/to the HD7696P antenna.

Some common Above the Roof antenna mounts are , tripod antenna mount , eave antenna mount , chimney antenna mount.

_________________________________________

For 1 Tv connected use No splitter.

For 2 Tv's connected use a 2 way splitter.

For 3 Tv's connected use a 3 way splitter.

Splitters that pass power through the splitter are the best to use because if the the power supply/power injector is one one side of the splitter and the preamp is on the other side of the splitter , power needs to go through the splitter.

The best power passing splitters to use are , HFS splitters.

HFS-2D , 2 way splitter.

HFS-3D , 3 way splitter.

Buy the HFS splitters , and antennas in the USA at , http://www.solidsignal.com , http://www.hollandelectronics.com.

And Canada at , http://www.saveandreplay.com , http://www.trentondistributors.com.

________

As always , trees and tree leave do a good job of , reflecting , reducing , blocking , Digital Broadcast Tv reception and so do buildings and other obstructions including your own roof and house.

It is best to install the HD7696P antenna at a location that has the least amount to no amount of obstructions in the directions of reception including your own roof and house.

The Tv's Must Channel Scan for the , OTA=Over The Air , Digital Broadcast Tv stations/channels , often named the , 'Air Channels' or ' Antenna Channels' in the Tv setup menu because the Tv transmissions travel through the air from the transmitting antenna to the receiving antenna.

Some Digital Tv's will automatic channel scan for cable tv channels.

DO NOT channel scan for cable tv channels.

Go into the Digital Tv setup menu and select the , 'Air Channels' / 'Antenna Channels'.

Antenna Direct versus Winegard choices
 

I contacted Save and Play and they recommend the Antenna Direct DB4e, saying it is a better antenna to hit Toronto tower. And possibly Buffalo.

Does anyone have any experience with the Antenna Direct products?

Also, I have solar panels on my roof, would the electrical current being produced interrupt my antenna signal. Do I need to keep anything in mind when installing or purchasing?

Don

Thanks Teleview for your guidance, since save and replay is only 40 min away I'm going to go for a visit. Do you have any experience with the Antenna Direct products?

Have you read Any of the other posts here at tvfool.

I recommend Antennas Direct products all the time.

I know about aiming 2 , 4 bay antennas in 2 different directions connected to 1 coax.

The idea has been around for a Very Long Time , Antennas Direct did not invent it.

This antennas situation has been tried Many times in the past.

I know all of the in's and out's of such a reception situation.

I stand firm Firm on my recommendation.

Bumping an old post, wondering if the above advice is still relevant for what's available today and based on my report in the same city: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e6a4a5f5ae1e6c

A few years ago I bought a CM4228 with dreams of mounting it and watching OTA tv, but that never happened :( From reading here it sound like the CM4228 is not the right antennae for me?

The 4228 is a very good antenna. However it may not be the
best choice in your situation. The 4228 is UHF only and will
not work well on those Hi VHF channels. With that said, I'd
certainly give it a try, you might be pleasantly surprised. You
may be able to direct one of the panels towards the CN tower
in Toronto and the other, South, towards Kitchener/London
transmitters. Let us know if you have further questions as
well as your results.....

Hi,

I live in Hamilton Ontario. I have an antennas direct DB8E <with VHF rabbit ears option>, a kitztech low noise amp, and an antenna rotor.

With your antenna I'd recommend an amp and a rotor. The amp will allow you to pull in some of those weaker Toronto stations and the rotor will allow you to move the antenna between Hamilton and Toronto. You should be able to get CITY TV out of Toronto with an amp. I think you are too far away to get any of the Buffalo channels.

Note that CTV is still VHF so you might not be able to get the Kitchener transmitter. With my setup I can pull in 3 CTV feeds (Toronto, Kitchener and Hamilton). I have read that the 4228 has decent high VHF so you might get lucky and get CTV Kitchener, especially if you have an amp.

I'm not sure if the 4228 allows you to direct the panels in different directions. This feature did not work well for me. I had hopes of pointing one panel at Buffalo and the other at Toronto. Buffalo is about 70 miles away from me and I need every precious bit of gain to get a good signal so the panels are locked flat and I use a rotor to direct the antenna.

good luck

Mike

Thanks guys, I think I will put the 4228 up on Kijiji and shop for a more suitable antennae, one of the bigger points of going this route is to get the Kitchener CTV station (local news)

I do already have a pre-amp, the CM7777 I believe it is.. basically I had all the gear but never found the time to put it up! (And my roof is rather steep and shy'd away from it)

I'm going to check out the HD7696P mentioned in the posts higher up

I've heard that the 4228 is actually pretty good at getting HI VHF (CTV Kitchener) for a UHF antenna,so you might want to try that antenna first before selling it on Kijiji.

What are your goals? Do you want to get local news? Do you want to get the Toronto stations or Buffalo? Are you trying to ditch cable?

Mike

My main goal is to get the local news, so getting CTV Kitchener would be a make or break for me

Getting Toronto stations would be goal #2, and knowing that Buffalo is a very tough one for where I am it's on my nice to have/bonus list.. but if the 4228 isn't the antennae that can even get me a shot at Buffalo but there is one that could, then I would likely switch to have that chance

Replacing cable isn't a goal, really just want local news and some backup channels to supplement online services

I guess what I should do really is just put up the 4228 I have and see what I can get, now I just need to wait until my shingle job is done :)

Hi

I took a look at the tvfool report for Guelph and you should definitely be okay for CTV Kitchener since it's in the green. CFTO is in the yellow so you might struggle with that because it's also VHF, or maybe not. One option if you can't get CFTO Is to buy the Rabbit Ears accessory antenna from antennas direct. That's what I use for VHF and I get both CTV stations.

You should also be okay for the Hamilton stations, probably without using a preamp. You'll probably need a preamp for some of the weaker Toronto stations.I think you'll only get Buffalo when the tropospheric conditions are ideal. I'd also look at getting a rotor because the angles between Kitchener, Hamilton, and Toronto are Wide.

Mike

Thanks, I'm wondering if the advice in the 2nd post here is still relevant regarding using a Winegard and pointing it 86 degrees east to attempt to get Kitchener and Toronto? Just flip flopping the idea that the winegard might be a better option for me

I have a CM7777 pre-amp, so good to go there

Hi,

I took a look at the Winegard HD7696P and it looks like it's no longer available. It appears to be one off those big "fishbone" antennas that were popular in the 70's. I wouldn't recommend it for what you want to do i.e. watch local news. If you did get an antenna like that you'd probably need a tower to mount it.

What were you thinking of mounting your antenna on? A j pole or were you thinking of getting a tower?

I was hoping on just re-using an old satellite dish mount, j pole I guess is what you would call it?

Just doing some more reading.. I'm confused why you said the Winegard HD7696P is no longer available, I see it for sale in a number of places still - http://overtheair.saveandreplay.ca/Winegard_HD7696P.asp

But using my CM4228.. any recommendations on direction to point in order to get CTV Kitchener and Toronto stations at the same time or if it's even possible?

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.p...1&d=1506124663

The Winegard HD7696P has been discontinued by the manufacturer, but some dealers still have it in stock.

If you want a smaller antenna for CTV on the satellite mount, I suggest the HD7694P. There are some trees in that direction, but I don't know how high they are now. I picked a house at random in your postal code.

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.p...1&d=1506124663

Excellent thanks! I am higher up from the point you used and should clear those trees easily

Would that antenna be in replacement of or in addition to my CM4228?

Since CTV is rather close, would I be ok just aiming at the Toronto tower and adding on one of those little VHF kits... I guess depends if you were suggesting the Winegard to be replacement or not, and if the Winegard could potentially pick up both towers

Uh-OH; you changed horses in midstream. I took you at your word when you said CTV was of primary importance. The 7694 was to be aimed SW for CTV and anything else in that direction.

If Toronto is back on your wanted list, then aim the 4228 at Toronto and add the VHF kit for CTV to see if it will work

Ah sorry :) Wasn't too clear on my wants, CTV is a definite but since it's so close I figured I should aim to get as much Toronto and others and grab CTV on a secondary

I just set it up inside the house and pointed towards Toronto and picked up 6 channels just by holding it on my lap and CTV came in with almost 80% signal:

6-1
6-2
11-1
13-1 (CTV)
28-1
36-1

I don't see 6-1 or -2 listed on my tvfool report, though it is Global and I'm pretty sure out of Toronto, so I'm sure if I get this up on top of the roof and with my amp I should do even better

Side q, where did you use to get the first image with the tower directions from my location?

Hamilton/Kitchner area. TVFool database has it incorrectly listed as virtual channel "17.1".

http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.p...93252000&map=Y

The main Global transmitter is located in Paris, Ontario.
There are translators for Hamilton/Toronto
as well as the Niagara Peninsula.

The TVFool Interactive TV Coverage Browser
http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?opti...pper&Itemid=90

Hi

Looks like you are mostly getting local stations

6-1 global paris HD
6-2 global Paris SD
11-1 CHCH hamilton
13-1 (CTV) Kitchener
28-1 Tvo Kitchener-Waterloo
36-1 Christian station hamilton

Put your antenna up on a Jpole with your amp, point it towards Toronto, and you should be able to pull in most of the stations transmitting from the CN tower.

An update and potentially stupid question

I've decided for this year I will just put the antenna up in the attic and revisit mounting it on the roof in the spring, lots going on this fall including waiting for shingle guys to come and do their job

Doing more testing sitting on the 2nd floor of my house connected my cm7777, pointing the face of the antenna (side with the bows) ~90 degrees compass (Toronto) I pick up the 7 channels I mentioned earlier.. which is odd as they are all in the opposite direction, and even more odd that I was holding the antenna in front of me so I would figure my body would be mostly blocking those signals?

I turn opposite way to face Kitchener ~240 degrees, I get only a couple higher up channels, not CTV from Kitchener

So I'm a bit confused.. why am I seeing what I view as opposite results?

Should I be getting at least a bit of the Toronto stations? I figured with the preamp I should get something even indoors, but signal meter on those stations showed nothing

I was assuming my method would be to point face of antenna approx. 90 degrees compass towards Toronto, add the VHF kit to the back side of it to get Kitchener.. but I seem to be getting it reversed, getting all Kitchener and others by pointing at Toronto

And just to make sure I'm not crazy, the front of a CM4228 IS the side with the bows?

Mine is the old style from 10+ years ago - http://www.hdtvprimer.com/antennas/cm4228.html

The sides are curved in slightly which came like that out of the box, wasn't sure if this should be kept like that or was just from how it was packaged.. but pics I see online seem to show them curved in as well

Also the antenna is slightly bent, as in not absolutely flat, just from being stored in the garage, should I work to flatten it out perfectly and make sure everything is lined up and nice and square?

Hi,

I was just comparing your results:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e6a4a5f5ae1e6c

With mine:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e6a44ebc8e92ed

Even though we are a fairly similar distance from the CN tower (46miles vs 36 for me) our results are quite a bit different. The CN Tower is line of site (LOS) for me and I can literally see the CN Tower from my house (or from a park near my house) but I suspect that's quite a bit different for you.

For you the CN tower is 1 edge so there is some type of obstruction in the way. I also noticed that your Noise Margin is less then 10 and your Signal strength is less then -80 dbm for some of the Toronto stations. With my setup using a DB8e antenna, a rotor, a very good tuner (homerun extend) and a low noise preamp I tend to struggle with stations below that threshold (in south buffalo) for me, although they are over 70 miles away.

I think you'll probably get most of the Toronto stations if you mount your antenna outside, with lots of height, and use a good preamp but some of them might be intermittent depending on tropospheric conditions. Your antenna is good for VHF so you'll probably get CFTO without additional rabbit ears.

You mentioned that your goal was to get local news so you are not doing that bad if the Toronto stations are hit and miss.

Mike

Yep, but like I mentioned getting up on the roof this year is seemingly unlikely for me to tackle and will have to wait until the spring

I'm more curious in the results that I observed while testing and aiming the antenna, what looked like opposite results but maybe I'm just interpreting them wrong?

Eldorado

With an 8 bay you can also pick up some signals off the back of your antenna. That may or may not be what your seeing.

Also for me local stations like CHCH and CTV2 I can pick up no matter what direction I point my antenna. I can also pick them up with or without a pre-amplifier. Stations in the lower green like CBC and CBC French I only need to point them in the general vicinity of the CN tower and I'll get them.

It starts to get more difficult once you get into the yellow and red zones. For those stations I need to be quite directional, with a preamp, and that's where a rotor and a good signal meter come in handy.

If your just playing around holding an antenna in a certain direction by hand, indoors, to see what you get, well, I'd just take those results with a grain of salt.

Mike

The "GOOD NEWS" is that with the incentive auction
repack, those all important Buffalo, N.Y. stations
will become much harder to receive. In most cases,
a Canadian station will be adjacent to the Buffalo
station, causing most to not be receivable.......