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-   -   trying again to get ch 31 real 25.1 virtual (fox) (http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=16667)

olnick 31-Aug-2019 2:46 PM

trying again to get ch 31 real 25.1 virtual (fox)
 
back in 2016 I tried unsuccessfully to cut the cord.. My only hold back is that I watch fox 25 (boston) news and was not able to get even a whisper of a signal.
I have an RCA ant3036X antenna. Aimed 161 deg mag.
I am now looking to use #1 a Kosmic Super Quad tuned to ch 31? #2 a Super Stealth Hawk? or #3 a Gray- Hoverman7?

Using the current ant I get more than enough other channels to view, my main concern is real ch 31 fox 25.1. Ch 9&11 come in perfect off the side.

Of the three options what would provide the best overall tunability to adjust for max gain at that freq? If this can be tuned to the peak of the waveform either side should still provide adequate gain to pull in the other channels as well.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...90388272b89494

Thanks

Olnick

Tower Guy 31-Aug-2019 4:56 PM

Since you last tried WFXT has moved from channel 31 to channel 34. I believe that they also moved to another tower.
This link has your updated info:
https://www.rabbitears.info/searchma...&study_id=7251

I’d try again with your existing antenna.

I don’t remember if you have a preamp and if so, which model.

Tower Guy 31-Aug-2019 5:01 PM

One additional caveat is that there is a transmitting antenna issue effecting several of the Boston UHF stations. I’d try rescanning multiple times over a several week period before I considered another antenna.

olnick 31-Aug-2019 5:35 PM

I,m using an RCA tvpramp1 amplifier. "UP DATE" this was my old one!! after checking out the cellar connections I see a CM-3412 amp now in place and the rca tvpramp1 has no wires connected to it

olnick

ADTech 31-Aug-2019 6:28 PM

As TG mentioned, numerous Boston stations are operating at reduced power, some from temporary facilities. Until they are all up and running at full capability over the coming weeks and, perhaps months, you may end up chasing ghosts that cannot be caught.


WFXT has filed their paperwork that their post-repack facility is complete so do give a re-scan a try and see what happens. Just be aware that they may be running from their auxiliary facility so coverage may still be reduced fro full capability. You might want to follow the local chatter in the Boston section over at AVSForum as a couple of the guys have been providing updates.

olnick 1-Sep-2019 9:17 PM

Update! Just using the CM3412 distribution amp:
2 nd floor 5 ch and 14 virtual ch's
1 st floor 6 ch and 19 virtual ch's

With the RCA TVpramp1 installed and powered up along with the CM 3412:

2 nd floor 7 ch and 28 virtual ch's
1 st floor 7 ch and 23 virtual ch's CH #s 5 9 11 27 29 32 42

Still NO Ch34/ 25.1 wfxt neither set will allow manual entry of CH34!

Olnick

ADTech 1-Sep-2019 10:09 PM

Based on an estimate of your location, you're likely not going to get that station right now. Until everything is fully operational on their permanent full powered facility on the other end, you're probably just spinning your wheels with no prospect of gaining any traction. The Cabot Street tower location doesn't appear to provide any predicted signal to your location.


Lower transmitter power, a shorter tower, and a directional side-mounted antenna that does not favor your azimuth are all contributing factors.

olnick 2-Sep-2019 11:27 PM

WOW what a mess!!
https://www.concordmonitor.com/TV-ch...nging-27376831

I went to the FCC site and I get the other two ch's that are shown as no signal!! so there is hope 34 (25.1) will be in the line up soon???????

Olnick

rabbit73 4-Sep-2019 12:11 AM

7 Attachment(s)
https://forum.tvfool.com/attachment....3&d=1567554407

https://www.rabbitears.info/searchma...&study_id=7774

Quote:

Originally Posted by olnick (Post 62150)
WOW what a mess!!
https://www.concordmonitor.com/TV-ch...nging-27376831

I went to the FCC site and I get the other two ch's that are shown as no signal!! so there is hope 34 (25.1) will be in the line up soon???????

Yeah, Repack is a mess and the cellular companies got the spectrum they wanted.

Right now WFXT 34 is probably using their CBS Tower transmitter:

https://forum.tvfool.com/attachment....7&d=1567552154

When they switch to their regular Cabot St transmitter, your chances should improve:

https://forum.tvfool.com/attachment....8&d=1567552202

But, you will still have your old problems like the WFXT coverage is spotty in your area. Red is the weakest listed signal strength; no color is weaker:

https://forum.tvfool.com/attachment....9&d=1567552596

and there is a hill in the signal path just before your location:

https://forum.tvfool.com/attachment....0&d=1567552928

https://forum.tvfool.com/attachment....1&d=1567552951

https://forum.tvfool.com/attachment....2&d=1567552996

And the TREES surrounding your house that block TV signals.

olnick 4-Sep-2019 1:50 AM

Thank you rabbit73! You did give me all the details I needed!
I am amazed that I get 24.1 as it is in the same catagory as 25.1 "bad" signal!! I can swing the ant approx 10 deg mag. either side of 161 deg mag and still get 24.1? If they are coming from the same tower I should be able to get 25.1 when the dust finally settles. (I hope).
That is the point when the cord gets cut once and for all!!!

Olnick

rabbit73 4-Sep-2019 2:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by olnick (Post 62155)
I am amazed that I get 24.1 as it is in the same catagory as 25.1 "bad" signal!! I can swing the ant approx 10 deg mag. either side of 161 deg mag and still get 24.1? If they are coming from the same tower I should be able to get 25.1 when the dust finally settles. (I hope).

24.1 is WFXZ on VHF-Low real channel 5. It is a Guest on the WGBH transmitter and not transmitting on its own:
https://www.rabbitears.info/market.p...=64833#station

If you look at the Boston Repack plan, you will see that WFXZ sold their license in the Repack reverse auction.
https://www.rabbitears.info/repackch...=&lss=&status=

WGBH is the Host:
https://www.rabbitears.info/market.p...n=WGBH#station

WGBH is now using Circular Polarization with 6.7 kW Horizontal and 6.7 kW Vertical ERP.
https://www.rabbitears.info/tvq.php?...ms&facid=72099

WGBH would be listed higher up, but a correction factor has been subtracted from the Field Strength to allow for the higher noise level on VHF-Low. Notice that its Signal Margin is 10.34 dB as a result, which is out of order.

VHF-Low signals can make it over hills better than UHF signals. So, even though they will be on the same tower, they will be on different TV bands.

If you are still not able to get WFXT after Repack, the only thing that I can think of to try is a WFXT dedicated UHF antenna like the Antennas Direct 91XG or Solid Signal HDB91X mounted above the trees with the front end tilted up to possibly catch the signal coming down from the peak of the hill.

I wish you good luck.

Tower Guy 4-Sep-2019 7:01 PM

Tilting an antenna upwards may gain about a db. Theoretically, installing an antenna at the optimum height can gain as much as 6 dB. If the antenna happens to be at the worst height where it is now, the gain due to finding the best height could be as much as 20 dB.

Rather than tilting an antenna upwards toward the top of the hill, I’d suggest raising or lowering the antenna to find the sweet spot.

rabbit73 4-Sep-2019 9:15 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tower Guy (Post 62159)
Rather than tilting an antenna upwards toward the top of the hill, I’d suggest raising or lowering the antenna to find the sweet spot.

Trying different heights is an excellent idea because of layering, but my main concern is with the trees that surround his house.
http://forum.tvfool.com/showpost.php...7&postcount=22

https://forum.tvfool.com/attachment....5&d=1567628348

https://forum.tvfool.com/attachment....6&d=1567628796

https://forum.tvfool.com/attachment....7&d=1567628825

As far as tilting is concerned, I recall one case where it made a difference between no reception and good reception for a location behind a hill. I think it's worth a try, especially as a act of desperation. The tilt feature already comes with the antennas I suggested; what's the harm in testing the theory?

olnick 22-Jan-2020 2:10 PM

Major progress!
 
My last posting I was attempting to get ch 34 (25-1) Boston fox news. The channel listing I had: 5,9,11,27,29,32,42 this provided 18 options to watch.
during the first cold snap we had with single digit temps, I did another scan,
now I get: 5,9,12,20,22,23,27,28,29,32,33,34,39,42,50 this line up provides 57 options to watch. Most come in at 100% a few get pixelated and it seems that as the temp increases (and the sun gets higher in the horizon) the number of channels drops off. Not back to the original 7 but I do loose 4-5 and others pixelate.
Now that I can receive these channels are there any options to allow me to keep them? any other amps etc.?

The hard woods have dropped their leafs as well!

Thanks

Olnick

rickbb 22-Jan-2020 2:20 PM

Try replacing your balun.

When the only thing that changes is the temp it could be the balun housing is expanding and making the connections lose. Or some other internal component is getting weaker due to the expansion.

It could also be any of the other connections or components experiencing issues with temp contraction/expansion.

olnick 22-Jan-2020 6:49 PM

Thanks I never would have given the balun a second guess that it would cause problems, Just need the snow to melt off the roof prior to me changing it!!

Olnick

olnick 16-Feb-2020 4:52 PM

Still have not replaced the Balun! when the roof was clear it was too windy with 20 MPH gusts to be up there. I no longer need a thermometer to know the outside temp!! It is very accurate to how many channels I get!!! This got me thinking The current preamp?? is an RCA -TVPRAMP1 that might be getting temperature sensitive? guessing 7-8 years old? are there any better preamps out there now?? This will save me another trip up onto the roof...

Thanks

Olnick

GroundUrMast 17-Feb-2020 1:53 AM

The Antennas Direct 'Juice' preamp is working well for me. It has not shown any signs of overload despite the rather strong levels of many of the signals. (I'm driving relatively long runs of coax and splitting at least eight ways.)

olnick 11-Mar-2020 10:03 PM

Just got off the roof, finished changing out The Balun. Since the temps have moderated into the 50-60'S during the day, I once again only get 5 channels. There was NO change with the balun replacement. I also noticed a bad "F" connector on the down feed and replaced that as well! Might be time to replace the RCA pre amp as a just to be sure its good?

Tower Guy mentioned lowering the antenna to find the "sweet spot" what is the distance between the layers? Am I looking at 6 inches or 3 feet to find the "sweet" spot? It might be easier to go up 6-8 inches with a re location of my chimney mounts rather than going down 20-25 inches!

Thanks

Olnick

OTAFAN 11-Mar-2020 11:33 PM

Quote:

Am I looking at 6 inches or 3 feet to find the "sweet" spot?
According to hdtvprimer.com and posted in another thread by rabbit73 similar to #13 above:

"For UHF the strong and weak spots are often 5 to 20 feet apart. If you are in a neighborhood with overlapping fields, moving your antenna a few feet can make a huge difference in signal strength. The chimney might seem like the perfect site, but if the chimney is in a weak spot then the chimney is a mistake. To make matters worse, the pattern of strong and weak spots will be different for different frequencies."

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/siting.html

If I can find rabbit73's post of Signal Layering/Overlapping Fields I'll edit with link or perhaps he will chime in with it.

Hope this helps.....

Tower Guy 12-Mar-2020 6:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by olnick (Post 62691)
Tower Guy mentioned lowering the antenna to find the "sweet spot" what is the distance between the layers? Am I looking at 6 inches or 3 feet to find the "sweet" spot? It might be easier to go up 6-8 inches with a re location of my chimney mounts rather than going down 20-25 inches!

Thanks

Olnick

The vertical distance from peak signal to null on channel 31 is calculated as 20.5 inches.

olnick 18-Mar-2020 11:34 PM

Just got off the roof again! Today was an 8-10 times on the damn roof. Its been a busy week. got a new RCA tvpreamp to replace the unit now in place. I ended up with a Tvpreamp1R from Lowe's It was advertised as a Tvpreamp12E. so much for advertising!! The first thing I did was to check the P/S inserter. not good only had 9.01 VDC coming out. My old unit that works excellent in the cold weather provided 9.50 VDC. So either way I figure I have a good power inserter. I go to the trouble of replacing the amp yeah up on the roof and plugin the new power inserter then NOTHING I had better reception without any amp!! I replaced the new power inserter with my old one still Nothing. Just about ready to say@!#$#@%$ and deal with the cable man when I decide to open up my old temp sensitive Tvpreamp to check it out. What I found was the two "F" connectors one for the power/out and the combined input were both broken on all four grounding legs onto the P/C board?????? I just happen to have replacements in my stock/junk pile. so I replaced both "F" connectors and re-installed the amp back up onto the antenna mount/mast. (I needed to remove the new DOA amp to return for a refund anyway). The first re scan with the old power inserter and my repaired preamp gave me 13 channels 31 total digital!(still missing Ch 31 fox 25) To make it better I adjusted the direction to closer to 162 deg mag. Now I have 10 channels 26 total digital. So to improve on this I check the direction and lower the antenna to the original height of the first reading 8 inches lowered from max. now I get 9 channels 21 total digital. The first reading was at 2 PM the second at 2:30 and the third at 3 PM. Its now Long Trail double bag time........ Any thoughts/ideas/suggestions?????? The cable man is looking better and better!!! Sad To say..

Thanks Olnick

rickbb 20-Mar-2020 2:51 PM

It does not look good for that channel. You are in a RF shadow behind a hill from the tower and the effective power at your location is less than 100kw.

Sorry.

olnick 22-Mar-2020 2:46 PM

Its cold out again this AM 18 deg. All my channels are back again??????????????? What am I missing???? there has to be a simple explanation for this happening with cold temperatures! I have done NOTHING else since my last posting just cold weather!

OlNick

rickbb 23-Mar-2020 2:30 PM

If everything has been ruled out other than temp changes, then it has to be a expansion/contraction issue of something in the system.

I can't think of anything else that would explain it.

Unless it's an atmosphere thing, colder denser air vs. warm less dense air, or visa/versa blocking or not blocking signals. But that's really just a WAG. (Wild A__ Guess).

Tower Guy 23-Mar-2020 2:30 PM

Things that could cause better reception in cold weather:

Water in the coax.
Temperature sensitive preamp.
Propagation changes due to atmospheric conditions.
Dry leaves.

olnick 26-Mar-2020 4:21 PM

Well one last shot at it!! I'm waiting for the new preamp to be delivered, then some better weather, new coax is all set and ready to install as well. I'll post my results good/bad or in different.. Right now there are NO leaves on the trees!

OlNick

olnick 22-Nov-2020 9:59 PM

Back in march when the "virus" kicked in all my projects stopped! However now that its November and getting cold again I am once again back to my attempt at OTA reception. My new preamp (Juice)is now 7 months old and finally got installed! I replaced the coax with solid copper center conductor Quad shield! After the initial install I had 6 channels in my first scan. This AM temp in the 20's the scan produced 16 channels I then added in the "juce" preamp and now I get 21 on a scan?? my supposed hot spot is at 162 deg mag. I can swing the antenna 15 deg either side of 162deg. and get the same 21 scanned channels. No change in viewability within the 30 deg swing??? I'm still not happy with the reception. any suggestions???
Thanks

Olnick

olnick 25-Nov-2020 1:46 PM

Up date: Today 11/25/2020 I did a rescan and now get 36 digital channels?? No its not cold out 28Deg. It is cloudy though Still no Ch 34 (fox 25) however I can live without it at this point! would just like to keep the current line up I now get!

Olnick

olnick 21-Jan-2021 1:26 PM

Finally CUT THE CORD!!!!!!
 
Thanks to all who have provided help support and direction in my persuit to get fox 25 out of Boston. I continue to get 25 to 30 OTA ch.s . I now have streaming that provides Fox 25! Dumping direct tv and other network changes provies a savings of $85.00 per month!!!!

Olnick


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