TV Fool - antenna advice for Marin County

TV Fool (http://forum.tvfool.com/index.php)

- Help With Reception (http://forum.tvfool.com/forumdisplay.php?f=7)

- - antenna advice for Marin County (http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=15276)

On other forum posters not sure the repacked stations running their antennas at full FCC power levels.

I'm hoping things will settle down post lock down.

Post repack report.

I speculated multi-path issues on lower channels put me on wrong side of "digital cliff".

I put up a 2nd AD 91 XG to build a horizontal array pointing at SF Sutro Tower.
Increased signal quality now allows for good reception.
Need to design mount for array.
Currently using saw horse.
Generic combiner/splitter from Home Depot.

During a high wind gust event (30+ mph) I will lose reception. Not a show stopper.

Found a useful script for my Silicondust Tuner.

https://github.com/shmick/TV_Stuff

Code:

~/Downloads/TV_Stuff-master > ./channel_scan.sh -D | tee output.txt

debug mode



Beginning scan on 10519452, tuner 1 at 07/12/20 17:46:18



Locking 10519452, tuner 1 with key 12121212



Unocking 10519452, tuner 1 with key 12121212



9 channels found

RF      Strngth dBmV    dBm     Quality SNR     Symbol  dbg     Calc_dBmV       Calc_dBm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

5       75      -15.0   -63.8   57      18.8    100     -5900   -13.2           -61.9

7       99      -0.6    -49.4   95      31.3    100     -4550   0.2             -48.5

12      100     0.0     -48.8   86      28.4    100     -4100   4.7             -44.1

13      92      -4.8    -53.5   68      22.4    100     -4900   -3.3            -52.0

27      99      -0.6    -49.4   77      25.4    100     -4650   -0.8            -49.5

28      91      -5.4    -54.1   70      23.1    100     -5100   -5.2            -54.0

29      99      -0.6    -49.4   90      29.7    100     -4650   -0.8            -49.5

33      92      -4.8    -53.5   98      32.3    100     -5100   -5.2            -54.0

34      90      -6.0    -54.8   78      25.7    100     -5225   -6.5            -55.2

 ~/Downloads/TV_Stuff-master >

I made mine from 1 1/2 Aluminized Exhaust tubing:

https://i.ibb.co/hL9Zpy3/20200629-20...py-600x283.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/KFPsHLq/20200520-090302.jpg

So, you "ganged" them with a splitter in reverse? I have been playing with a lowewr loss version, using a 1/4 wave transformer, works well.
https://i.ibb.co/wy3wy0D/Quarter-wav...lear-skies.png

To bobsgarage,

Using 2Ghz splitter in reverse.
Higher insertion loss compared to other solutions.
No idea if lower loss combiner would improve over all viewing experience.

Looking for better location on roof for longer term mount.
Using portable mount on flat roof. May need more than 1 for arrays.

Over time obstructing trees bigger.

Marginal situation at best.

Sutro stations using auxiliary antennas work days from 7 am to 6 pm for next 5 weeks.
Stations do not lock.
Ok for now. I mostly time shift programs after 6:00 pm.

Code:

 ~/Downloads/TV_Stuff-master $ ./channel_scan.sh -D | tee output.txt

debug mode



Beginning scan on 10519452, tuner 0 at 07/13/20 09:25:00



Locking 10519452, tuner 0 with key 12121212



Unocking 10519452, tuner 0 with key 12121212



5 channels found

RF      Strngth dBmV    dBm     Quality SNR     Symbol  dbg     Calc_dBmV       Calc_dBm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

13      87      -7.8    -56.5   76      25.1    100     -5150   -5.7            -54.5

19      91      -5.4    -54.1   71      23.4    100     -5100   -5.2            -54.0

20      92      -4.8    -53.5   72      23.8    100     -5050   -4.7            -53.5

31      100     0.0     -48.8   86      28.4    100     -4575   -0.0            -48.8

36      91      -5.4    -54.1   90      29.7    100     -5200   -6.2            -55.0

Long time since last post.

https://www.rabbitears.info/s/371849

Signal quality degraded over the pandemic.

Sutro Tower engineering done for time being.

I maybe now experiencing cellular interference.
T-Mobile LTE service officially available in my area.
T-Mobile tower between me and Sutro antennas.

SiliconDust support confirmed my tuner showed " very big spike of cellular phone activity at about 623MHz".

Big hourly and daily changes in signal quality.

(see tvfool.txt)

So could be something external to my antennas/amp/tuner.

I plan to order LTE filter which will block above 608 MHz.
Place filter after antennas and before RCA mast amp.
Will report back after experiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ckwsp101_tv (Post 63716)

Long time since last post.

https://www.rabbitears.info/s/371849

I plan to order LTE filter which will block above 608 MHz.
Place filter after antennas and before RCA mast amp.
Will report back after experiment.

Thank you for the new report.

Good idea to try the filter. If you order the Channel Master 3201 filter, make sure you get the NEW 600 MHz filter that says Pass 5-608 MHz Block 609-3000 MHz. They tweaked the 600 filter to reduce the loss to channel 36.

You can see the cellular signals with an SDR:

https://forum.tvfool.com/attachment....1634240061p://

https://forum.tvfool.com/attachment....5&d=1634240405

Video
I use VLC Media Player
Download and view now:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bvohk4y8hn...MyUHF.mp4?dl=0

Download now, view later:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bvohk4y8hn...MyUHF.mp4?dl=1

A less expensive SDR ($30), the RTL-SDR.COM V3, can be used with free DIY Scanner software from GitHub. The scan is not real-time; you have to wait until the scan has completed before you see it.

https://forum.tvfool.com/attachment....6&d=1634259480

https://forum.tvfool.com/attachment....7&d=1634259520

I deployed the Silicondust LTE filter before the UHF input of the RCA mast amp.
Now readings in RF 39-40 at noise floor of the system?
I guess signal strength 30 on RF 38-39 means the filter is doing right thing.
I'm not interested in KICU-HD (RF 36) at this time.

Overnight time shift recording of KPIX-TV (RF 29) still experienced drop outs.

I likely have multiple issues.
Going to leave in LTE filter as it appears to cause no harm and eliminates one variable.

Day time reception appears stronger than evening.
Day time heat helps diffract signal over the hill between me and desired Sutro station?
That effect less during the evening?

Dodgy antenna mount.
Change pointing of antennas by 3 degrees changed signal quality by 3 percent this morning on one station.

i added an additional 1 second delay in the channel_scan.sh script.
Appears to be a settling issue using the original 1 second delay.
Signal quality reports with 2 second delay showed less variation this morning.

Maybe that is sign of power issues in the tuner :<
I'm still on the original Silicondust tuner external power supply.
Going to order replacement power supply.

Code:

~/Videos/TV_Stuff-master/channel_scan.sh -A

debug mode



Beginning scan on 10519452, tuner 0 at 10/16/21 09:30:20



Locking 10519452, tuner 0 with key 12121212



Unocking 10519452, tuner 0 with key 12121212



50 channels found

RF    Strngth    dBmV    dBm    Quality    SNR    Symbol    dbg    Calc_dBmV    Calc_dBm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2    34    -39.6    -88.3    0    0.0    0    -8350    -37.4        -86.2

3    35    -39.0    -87.8    0    0.0    0    -8300    -37.0        -85.7

4    43    -34.2    -83.0    0    0.0    0    -7825    -32.2        -81.0

5    73    -16.2    -65.0    44    14.5    0    -6000    -14.2        -62.9

6    45    -33.0    -81.8    0    0.0    0    -7625    -30.3        -79.0

7    92    -4.8    -53.5    85    28.1    100    -4950    -3.8        -52.5

8    34    -39.6    -88.3    0    0.0    0    -8400    -37.9        -86.7

9    44    -33.6    -82.3    41    13.5    0    -7800    -32.0        -80.7

10    49    -30.6    -79.3    41    13.5    0    -7475    -28.8        -77.5

11    37    -37.8    -86.5    0    0.0    0    -8175    -35.7        -84.5

12    97    -1.8    -50.5    90    29.7    100    -4550    0.2        -48.5

13    84    -9.6    -58.4    62    20.5    100    -5350    -7.7        -56.5

14    61    -23.4    -72.2    42    13.9    0    -6875    -22.8        -71.6

15    36    -38.4    -87.2    0    0.0    0    -8350    -37.4        -86.2

16    78    -13.2    -62.0    0    0.0    0    -5825    -12.4        -61.2

17    65    -21.0    -69.8    0    0.0    0    -6650    -20.6        -69.4

18    52    -28.8    -77.5    42    13.9    0    -7425    -28.3        -77.0

19    84    -9.6    -58.4    76    25.1    100    -5475    -9.0        -57.7

20    91    -5.4    -54.1    81    26.7    100    -5100    -5.2        -54.0

21    50    -30.0    -78.8    0    0.0    0    -7575    -29.8        -78.5

22    65    -21.0    -69.8    42    13.9    0    -6625    -20.4        -69.1

23    53    -28.2    -77.0    0    0.0    0    -7400    -28.0        -76.8

24    62    -22.8    -71.5    42    13.9    0    -6850    -22.6        -71.3

25    71    -17.4    -66.2    57    18.8    100    -6275    -16.9        -65.6

26    45    -33.0    -81.8    41    13.5    0    -7875    -32.7        -81.5

27    90    -6.0    -54.8    67    22.1    100    -5200    -6.2        -55.0

28    90    -6.0    -54.8    64    21.1    100    -5150    -5.7        -54.5

29    94    -3.6    -52.4    69    22.8    100    -4925    -3.5        -52.3

30    95    -3.0    -51.8    69    22.8    100    -4900    -3.3        -52.0

31    98    -1.2    -50.0    90    29.7    100    -4725    -1.5        -50.3

32    94    -3.6    -52.4    73    24.1    100    -4950    -3.8        -52.5

33    86    -8.4    -57.1    62    20.5    100    -5475    -9.0        -57.7

34    94    -3.6    -52.4    90    29.7    100    -5000    -4.3        -53.0

35    53    -28.2    -77.0    41    13.5    0    -7475    -28.8        -77.5

36    73    -16.2    -65.0    58    19.1    100    -6250    -16.6        -65.4

37    32    -40.8    -89.5    0    0.0    0    -8700    -40.9        -89.7

38    30    -42.0    -90.8    0    0.0    0    -8850    -42.4        -91.2

39    30    -42.0    -90.8    0    0.0    0    -8875    -42.7        -91.4

40    34    -39.6    -88.3    0    0.0    0    -8650    -40.4        -89.2

41    32    -40.8    -89.5    0    0.0    0    -8775    -41.7        -90.4

42    33    -40.2    -89.0    0    0.0    0    -8725    -41.2        -89.9

43    34    -39.6    -88.3    0    0.0    0    -8625    -40.2        -88.9

44    37    -37.8    -86.5    0    0.0    0    -8475    -38.7        -87.4

45    39    -36.6    -85.3    0    0.0    0    -8375    -37.7        -86.4

46    41    -35.4    -84.2    0    0.0    0    -8275    -36.7        -85.5

47    42    -34.8    -83.5    0    0.0    0    -8225    -36.2        -85.0

48    41    -35.4    -84.2    0    0.0    0    -8250    -36.5        -85.2

49    38    -37.2    -86.0    0    0.0    0    -8450    -38.4        -87.2

50    32    -40.8    -89.5    0    0.0    0    -8800    -41.9        -90.7

 51    28    -43.2    -92.0    0    0.0    0    -9050    -44.4        -93.1

Now experiencing tuner resets. Did not have issue a year ago.
Silicondust support suggested original power supply could be an issue.

Code:

19700101-00:00:17 System: reset reason = application watchdog 19700101-00:00:17 System: E5592573 0000000E 004F41F8 0046B4F8 0046A6E8 004F5734 0040F7CC 005109E4 19700101-00:00:17 System: 0046A238 004D4A34 00409258 0046D490 00460C88 00401674 0041438C 00402850 19700101-00:00:17 System: network link 100f

With the LTE filter in place I experienced fewer faults in time shifted shows.

I replaced the original tuner power supply with new Silicondust power supply.

No immediate measurable improvements in signal quality after power supply switch.

See how things go next recording viewing cycle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ckwsp101_tv (Post 63718)

I likely have multiple issues.

Day time reception appears stronger than evening.
Day time heat helps diffract signal over the hill between me and desired Sutro station?
That effect less during the evening?

Dodgy antenna mount.
Change pointing of antennas by 3 degrees changed signal quality by 3 percent this morning on one station.

Have you considered multipath due to airplane reflections? Did you see much airplane flutter in the analog days?

No airplane flutter in the analog days.

Reception quality slowly went down over the last 12 months.

Big storm coming into Bay Area.

May reposition horizontal array after storm.

Before pending storm.
Reception change due to atmospheric conditions?

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/23/weath...ght/index.html

time ~/Videos/TV_Stuff-master/channel_scan.sh -D
debug mode

Beginning scan on 10519452, tuner 0 at 10/23/21 12:51:22

Locking 10519452, tuner 0 with key 12121212

Unocking 10519452, tuner 0 with key 12121212

13 channels found
RF Strngth dBmV dBm Quality SNR Symbol dbg Calc_dBmV Calc_dBm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7 91 -5.4 -54.1 90 29.7 100 -5000 -4.3 -53.0
12 98 -1.2 -50.0 73 24.1 100 -4500 0.7 -48.0
13 83 -10.2 -59.0 69 22.8 100 -5425 -8.5 -57.2
19 84 -9.6 -58.4 70 23.1 100 -5475 -9.0 -57.7
20 88 -7.2 -56.0 90 29.7 100 -5275 -7.0 -55.7
27 89 -6.6 -55.4 68 22.4 100 -5250 -6.7 -55.5
28 90 -6.0 -54.8 64 21.1 100 -5150 -5.7 -54.5
29 93 -4.2 -53.0 77 25.4 100 -5000 -4.3 -53.0
31 99 -0.6 -49.4 81 26.7 100 -4675 -1.0 -49.8
32 94 -3.6 -52.4 69 22.8 100 -4950 -3.8 -52.5
33 89 -6.6 -55.4 76 25.1 100 -5300 -7.2 -56.0
34 90 -6.0 -54.8 85 28.1 100 -5225 -6.5 -55.2
36 72 -16.8 -65.5 59 19.5 100 -6325 -17.4 -66.1

My Silicondust tuner using older 7th generation Panasonic demodulator chip mentioned in article.

https://in-koherence.com/index.php/2...onnect-quatro/

Review of my generation Silicondust tuner.
https://www.rabbitears.info/blog/ind...meRun-4-Review

Bay Area challenging reception area.

https://in-koherence.com/index.php/2...ith-diversity/

Big rain storm hitting Bay Area.

Better reception conditions during rainy weather.
Winds averaging 4 MPH.

Code:

time ~/Videos/TV_Stuff-master/channel_scan.sh -D

debug mode



Beginning scan on 10519452, tuner 0 at 10/24/21 08:30:07



Locking 10519452, tuner 0 with key 12121212



Unocking 10519452, tuner 0 with key 12121212



14 channels found

RF        Strngth        dBmV        dBm        Quality        SNR        Symbol        dbg        Calc_dBmV        Calc_dBm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

7        94        -3.6        -52.4        98        32.3        100        -4800        -2.3                -51.0

12        98        -1.2        -50.0        78        25.7        100        -4500        0.7                -48.0

13        83        -10.2        -59.0        53        17.5        100        -5400        -8.2                -57.0

19        87        -7.8        -56.5        82        27.1        100        -5325        -7.5                -56.2

20        88        -7.2        -56.0        90        29.7        100        -5250        -6.7                -55.5

27        99        -0.6        -49.4        98        32.3        100        -4625        -0.5                -49.3

28        98        -1.2        -50.0        90        29.7        100        -4700        -1.3                -50.0

29        97        -1.8        -50.5        78        25.7        100        -4775        -2.0                -50.8

30        97        -1.8        -50.5        65        21.4        100        -4775        -2.0                -50.8

31        100        0.0        -48.8        81        26.7        100        -4550        0.2                -48.5

32        97        -1.8        -50.5        78        25.7        100        -4775        -2.0                -50.8

33        94        -3.6        -52.4        98        32.3        100        -4950        -3.8                -52.5

34        88        -7.2        -56.0        76        25.1        100        -5325        -7.5                -56.2

36        81        -11.4        -60.1        69        22.8        100        -5750        -11.7                -60.4

With upgraded SiliconDust tuner fewer reception failures.
ATSC 3.0 lighthouse transmitter at Sutro Tower (RF 7)

Up to 20 percent improvement in signal quality surprising ( in a good way).
Using legacy scripts. Calculated values may be invalid for newer tuner.
Not going to pay for developer software for new tuner at this time.

My trusty Extend failed. Cannot perform A/B test.
Same antenna, LTE filter, preamp and cabling as before.
RCA preamp due for a replacement.

Annoyed one needs to purchase a MS HEVC plugin to receive ATSC 3.0 video with
SiliconDust W10 app.
Too bad stock VLC lacks AC-4 audio support. Can view ATSC 3.0 video with no sound.

updated link

https://www.rabbitears.info/s/944339

Code:

Hardware Model        HDFX-4K

Firmware Version        20230323



debug mode



Beginning scan on xxx, tuner 1 at 04/02/23 10:46:30



Locking xxx, tuner 1 with key 12121212



Unocking xxx, tuner 1 with key 12121212



17 channels found

RF        Strngth        dBmV        dBm        Quality        SNR        Symbol        dbg        Calc_dBmV        Calc_dBm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

5        72        -16.8        -65.5        63        20.8        100        8-73        59.9                11.2

7        83        -10.2        -59.0        76        25.1        100        8-87        59.9                11.2

12        95        -3.0        -51.8        85        28.1        100        8-107        45.4                -3.4

13        80        -12.0        -60.8        69        22.8        100        8-86        59.9                11.2

19        88        -7.2        -56.0        88        29.0        100        8-103        45.4                -3.4

20        80        -12.0        -60.8        81        26.7        100        8-90        59.9                11.2

24        60        -24.0        -72.8        55        18.2        100        8-62        59.9                11.2

25        63        -22.2        -71.0        61        20.1        100        8-65        59.9                11.2

27        90        -6.0        -54.8        88        29.0        100        8-104        45.4                -3.4

28        88        -7.2        -56.0        76        25.1        100        8-101        45.4                -3.4

29        91        -5.4        -54.1        81        26.7        100        8-104        45.4                -3.4

30        97        -1.8        -50.5        95        31.3        100        8-112        45.4                -3.4

31        91        -5.4        -54.1        85        28.1        100        8-104        45.4                -3.4

32        94        -3.6        -52.4        85        28.1        100        8-108        45.4                -3.4

33        81        -11.4        -60.1        82        27.1        100        8-90        59.9                11.2

34        85        -9.0        -57.8        82        27.1        100        8-96        59.9                11.2

36        69        -18.6        -67.3        65        21.4        100        8-74        59.9                11.2

Quote:

Originally Posted by ckwsp101_tv (Post 63814)

Thank you for the interesting update with the data from your HDFX-4K using the legacy shmick script.

I haven't been posting much on this forum lately; mostly on the AVS forum where there is some controversy about DRM and ATSC 3.0.

I changed my password for this forum when the certificate hadn't been renewed, and I forgot to write it down. After a little trial-and-error, I recovered it.

You might be interested in this thread, if you haven't seen it, where I mentioned you a few times:
How to display SNR in dB and Signal Strength in dBm on HDHomeRun Config GUI
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/how...g-gui.3270642/

Have you seen these videos by dylan?

ATSC 3.0: Testing WTVJ in Miami, FL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4lwlXnE-NM

ATSC 3.0 and ATSC 1.0 AVC in Orlando, FL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mKJmwSATtk

rabbit73

Will view the mentioned references.

Turns out SD Extend transcoded streams did not saturate my obsolete home network.
Need newer switch to support multiple Flex 4K ATSC 1.0 streams.

I'm time shifting OTA shows to bypass commercials.

Fewer network concerns with ATSC 3.0 streams.

1080p/60 coming from ATSC 3.0 station :>
My VLC client cannot decode AC-4 audio :<

https://forum.tvfool.com/attachment....1&d=1682185656

Legacy script could use an update for latest generation SiliconDust tuner.

Definitely more reliable reception compared to older tuners.

Using the script default shows changes in tuner return strings compared to prior
generation tuners.

Verbose mode also introduces a delay which assists script capturing of some tuner response strings.

Code:



time ~/Videos/TV_Stuff-master/channel_scan.sh



Beginning scan on 10A53D44, tuner 0 at 06/10/23 06:50:54



14 channels found

RF        Strngth        dBmV        dBm        Quality        Symbol        Virt#1        Name                 Virt#2        Name                Virt#3        Name                Virt#4        Name                Virt#5        Name

------------------------------------------------------------------------

7        90        -6        -54.75        81        100        PROGRAM        1377                PROGRAM        1378                encrypted        PROGRAM                KPIX-TV        encrypted                107.1        KGO-HD                114.1        KDTV-TV

12        94        -3.6        -52.35        99        100        7.1        KGO-HD                7.2        LOCLish                7.3        ThisTV                7.4        HSN                4.5        Shop                        

13        85        -9        -57.75        81        100        11.1        KNTV                4        11.2                5        48.3                PROGRAM        6                PROGRAM        7                PROGRAM        8

19        77        -13.8        -62.55        85        100        48.1        KSTS-HD                48.2        TeleX                11.3        KNTV-HD                11.4        COZI-TV                48.5        NBCLX                48.6        Oxygen

20        75        -15        -63.75        75        100        14.1        KDTV-HD                14.2        UniMas                14.3        getTV                14.4        Mystery                26.1        KTSF                26.3        26-3

27        83        -10.2        -58.95        81        100        60.1        KPJKHD                60.2        PJKF24                60.3        PJKNHK                60.4        PJKDW                60.5        PJKFNX                60.6        PJKJAZZ

28        87        -7.8        -56.55        81        100        44.1        KBCW-DT                44.2        COMET                44.3        MeTV                44.4        TBD                44.6        CHARGE!                4.3        Rewind

29        90        -6        -54.75        82        100        5.1        KPIX-TV                5.2        StartTV                5.3        Dabl                5.4        FAVE                                                

30        92        -4.8        -53.55        91        100        9.1        KQED-HD                9.2        KQED+HD                9.3        WORLD                9.4        KIDS                54.1        KQED+HD                54.2        KQED-HD

31        96        -2.4        -51.15        100        100        2.1        KTVU-HD                2.2        FOXWX                2.3        MOVIES!                2.4        BUZZR                4.1        KRON-TV                        

32        95        -3        -51.75        96        100        38.1        KCNS                38.2        SkyLink                42.1        TCT                32.1        KMTP                38.5        NTD                42.2        ESNE

33        85        -9        -57.75        94        100        65.1        ION                65.2        Bounce                65.3        CourtTV                65.4        Defy                7        65.5                8        65.6

34        87        -7.8        -56.55        95        100        66.1        KFSF-HD                66.2        KDTV-HD                66.3        Bounce                66.4        Grit                66.5        TrueCri                66.6        Twist

36        65        -21        -69.75        65        100        36.1        KICU-HD                36.2        KEMS                36.3        FOXWX                36.4        CATCHY                36.5        TheGrio                        



real        2m0.952s

user        0m0.051s

sys        0m0.057s