antenna pointing questions
 

Hello all! I'm new here. I'm in the process of installing some OTA antennas, and would like some advise. Thanks in advance for your help! First, my report: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...9900d112d6d96e
Next the antennas that I purchased. I got two, the clearstream 5 and the DB4e. I plan to use my existing DirectV mount and put a 10' pipe in so it sits up probably around 20-25' in the air to the top of the pipe. I contacted antennas direct, and all they said was to point the C5 East, and the DB4e West. In looking over this site and others, it appears that there is more to it than that. Can someone help me figure out at what exact angle, or direction to point for maximum reception? The guys at Ant. Dir. also said that the two had to be 2-3 feet apart from each other. Any recomendations on which antenna to put on top? Also, where I want to mount it, to the East, there is a tall tree, maybe 40 feet away. There is also powerlines that run down the alley......no where near the pole, but will the noise on the lines interfear?

->ALL<- Questions and Answers about Broadcast Tv Reception and More.
 

Aim the C5 VHF antenna at about 245 degree magnetic compass.

For reception of.

KHAS-DT VHF channel 5 NBC and This Nebraska/This Tv.

KLKN-DT VHF channel 8 ABC and Live Well Network.

KOLN-DT VHF channel 10 CBS and MyNetwork.

KGIN-DT VHF channel 11 CBS and MyNetwork.

KHGI-TV VHF channel 13 ABC and FOX.


Aim the DB4e UHF antenna at about 250 degree magnetic compass for the reception of.

KHNE-DT UHF channel 28 PBS.

K56FC UHF channel 50 construction permit , not on the air yet.

KYVG-TV UHF channel 19 FOX.


Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

Mount the antennas above the roof.

Here are some STRONG and STURDY above the roof antenna mounts , http://www.ronard.com/909911.html , http://www.ronard.com/34424560.html , http://www.ronard.com/ychim.html , http://www.ronard.com.

Buy the ronard antenna mounts at solidsignal by typing the word ronard in the solidsignal search box.

Here are some places to buy antenna mounts and etc. , http://www.solidsignal.com , http://www.antennasdirect.com , http://www.amazon.com.

Put the C5 on the bottom and DB4e on top. Separate by a about 2 or 3 feet.

Thanks for the great info.......One question for you, in all my hunting, I'm being told in another forum that I can't combine these two antennas without an A-B switch because they will cancel eachother out in one direction or the other since they are both uhf/vhf. I planned on using a diplexer that comes with the C5 to combine the signals and use one cable to bring it in the house. Will this not work like that? Would I be better off with one antenna or the other?

If you mount two antennas on the same mast, put the UHF antenna on top.

Aim point suggestions are starting points. You'll want to fine tune the aim after first installing the antenna. If you have a signal meter built into a TV, use it. Aiming is usually an exercise in compromise, the goal is to get reliable reception of the most signals. After all, you'll probably spend more time watching a TV program, not the signal meter.

You'll get more reliable reception if you can mount the antenna(s) so they aren't aimed at trees or buildings.

If you use the satellite mount to support a 10' mast, consider wind loading. I'm sure you don't want the roof damaged. Some sort of guy wire or other support will be needed.

The UVSJ diplexer will combine the two antennas properly. You don't need an A/B switching arrangement.

->ALL<- Questions and Answers about Broadcast Tv Reception and More.
 

It is always a good to not receive Tv transmissions through trees and tree leaves , trees absorb and reflect Tv transmissions.

If the C5 can be located at a place that avoids the trees to the east that will be better.

The C5 comes with a combiner that combines the C5 and DB4e on to one coax down lead , that is good it simplifies the installation and connections to the Tv/s.

And speaking of Tv/s.

How many Tv/s are/will be connected??

I'm only hooking up 1 TV

->ALL<- Questions and Answers about Broadcast Tv Reception and More.
 

I find watching the signal strength meter to be more interesting then many Tv programs.

But then I am more interested receiving Tv stations , then being (entertained???) by the programing.

The Tv/s Must scan for the Digital Broadcast Tv Channels sometimes named the 'Air Channels' or 'Antenna Channels' in the Tv setup menu because the Tv transmissions travcel through the air from the transmitting antenna to the receiving antenna.

Do Not scan for cable tv channels.

A antenna amplifier will most likely not be required for one Tv connection.

For one Tv connection use No splitters. Every time a splitter split takes place the signal strength is reduced.

No sense to reduce signal strength needlessly.

Would one or the other antenna work to pull in the stations in my area? If I used just the DB4e, could I get most everything with it?

->ALL<- Questions and Answers about Broadcast Tv Reception and More.
 

------->As I under stood it you already have the C5 and DB4e antennas.<--------

I am evaluating the use of one antenna , will return shortly.

Well Ok , further evaluation shows that currently all the programing can be Received with the C5 antenna.

The C5 is really a VHF high band antenna channels 7 thru 13 antenna.

The C5 will receive the VHF low band channels 2 thru 6 if the signals are strong.

The C5 will receive the UHF band channels 14 thru 51 if the signals are strong.

A Much Better Solution for reception with one antenna is a Winegard HD7082P antenna aimed at 245 degree magnetic compass.

The HD7082P antenna is -->designed<-- to be a All Band Antenna. VHF Channel 2 thru 6 , VHF channels 7 thru 13 and UHF channels 14 thru 51.

A Much Better Solution is the HD7082P All Band Antenna.

Sounds great, thanks

->ALL<- Questions and Answers about Broadcast Tv Reception and More.
 

Buy the Winegard HD7082P antenna at , http://www.winegarddirect.com , http://www.solidsignal.com , http://www.amazon.com.

->ALL<- Questions and Answers about Broadcast Tv Reception and More.
 

No do not use the DB4e by it's self.

The DB4e is a UHF antenna that will receive VHF channels 7 thru 13 to a very limited degree and is VERY BAD at receiving channels 2 thru 6.

KHAS-DT channel 5 is transmitting on channel 5.

-------------->So what antennas IF ANY do you have now??<--------------

I ordered the C5 and the DB4e. They are being delivered today and Monday.

If need be, I guess I could send them both back and get something different, if you think there is a better solution.

->ALL<- Questions and Answers about Broadcast Tv Reception and More.
 

It is all your choice , You do what ever You think is the best.

To reduce confusion to a minimum. Here is the information.

Your location has receivable Tv stations/channels in ALL 3 Tv bands.

VHF low band channels 2 thru 6 , VHF high band channels 7 thru 13 and UHF band channels 14 thru 51.

I recommend install a Winegard HD7082P , ALL band , ALL channel antenna aimed at about 240 degree magnetic compass.
Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

Here are some Strong and Sturdy above the roof antenna mounts , http://www.ronard.com/909911.html , http://www.ronard.com/34424560.html , http://www.ronard.com/ychim.htmlhttp://www.ronard.com.

Buy the ronard antenna mounts at solidsignal buy typing the word ronard in the solidsignal search box.

Here are places to buy antennas and etc. , http://www.solidsignal.com . http://www.winegarddirect.com , http://www.amazon.com.

->ALL<- Questions and Answers about Broadcast Tv Reception and More.
 

The Tv/s Must scan for the Digital Broadcast Tv Channels sometimes named the 'Air Channels' or 'Antenna Channels' in the Tv setup menu because the Tv transmissions travel through the air from the transmitting antenna to the receiving antenna.

Do Not scan for cable tv channels.

Here is what Solid Signal is telling me. I'm trying to put everyone's input together. It is all much appreciated. Here is what they told me about the C5 and the DB4e. He said that they can be used together without an A-B switch. He didn't recommend using the diplexer that comes with the C5 either. He said to use a splitter upside down. I asked if the signals from the two antennas would battle, and reduce the signal, and he said it wouldn't. In the end, he said I really didn't have the best choice in antennas for my area, but try them and see what I can get. He recommended the Winegard HD7082P, as was suggested here, but said that I would need two, the 7082 and the 7084. Noted that they are big and ugly, but probably a better choice.........THOUGHTS?

DTV/cell phone reception advise and products
 

Solid Signals antenna recommendation is a much better choice, provided you install a Channel Master 9215 rotor.

Multipul antennas and in different spectrum ie. UHF and VHF can be joined without interference.

The guy at SS said that I would still need two antennas....are you saing that one Winegard HD7082P would catch everything.....given a rotator better than what I have coming?

Per Electron - "I recommend install a Winegard HD7082P , ALL band , ALL channel antenna aimed at about 240 degree magnetic compass."

By this, are we saying that a single antenna installed without the use of a rotator would do the trick?

The 7082 all channel antenna is needed because you have all bands available. This antenna is very dirrectional so you need rotor if you want to receive multipul directions.

Thanks....What is the difference between the 7082 and the 84? Is it just that the 84 is a stronger antenna?

Larger, Longer, more elements and more gain on the VHF.

Worth the extra cost in my area, or will the 7082 get everything available? How does the channel master compare with the aspen rotators? What would you recommend for a good rotator for this antenna?

DTV/cell phone reception advise and products
 

If you can use the longer antenna, I would stay with the Channel Master 9215.

I use the Eagel with smaller antennas, but for that Winegard the Channel Master.

Stronger built, less back lash, more servicable. parts more available, very accurate.

->ALL<- Questions and Answers about Broadcast Tv Reception and More.
 

I listed All the receivable Tv stations and channels.

With the HD7082P antenna installed and used to receive the Tv stations/channels and programing.

There is one programing channel that will possibly not be received and that one is , The Live Well Network.

Notice the words -> possibly not received <- .

If after installing and using the HD7082P antenna , the Live Well Network is not received and you will like to receive it , then install a rotor.

As to the C5 and DB4e , the C5 comes with a combiner that combines the C5 and DB4e on to one coax , no A/B switch required.

I will not provide any more information.

These opinions can go on for ever and ever.

Wow, I appologize if I've upset you for some reason. I'm only trying to make a quality decision. To do this, I wanted to tap into a source with a lot of knowledge, namely, TV Fool. I do ask a lot of questions, but only because I want to be sure. I'm sorry for the inconvenience I cause you. If you look through the thread, I would hope you can see why there is some confusion.....you say I don't need a rotator with the 7082 pointed at 240*, while Signals Unlimited is suggesting to get a rotator. Gosh, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend you, and appologize for that, I'm only trying to figure this out.

->ALL<- Questions and Answers about Broadcast Tv Reception and More.
 

I am not upset in any way shape or form. I am stating facts. The opinions can go on for ever and ever.

I'm sorry, but if I may ask,.....due to your input, I am probably going to return the antennas that I purchased, and buy the winegard you suggested, but I'm curious about it and how it picks up signal. since I would be pointing it 240* or so (Southwest), does it pick up signal in both directions, or will the three stations to the East, 8, 51, and 10 be out unless I turn it? Thanks, and I hope I'm not a bother.

I've taken the time to closely examine each real channel on your report from the top down to the entry for KTVG, real CH-19.

If mounted outdoors, clear of obstructions such as buildings and trees, the HD7082P aimed at about 250° compass has enough gain to receive all the stations mentioned. (The beginning aim point is the point to start from... fine tune the aim from there, looking for reliable reception of the most stations... rather than signal meter readings of an individual channel.)

The worst case is KOLN real CH-10. with the antenna aimed away from that station, it has significantly lower gain than if aimed at the station. Still, the signal from KOLN is strong enough to be received through the back side of the antenna. I estimate the net noise margin will be between 10 and 15 dB at the TV if you use a good low noise preamp such as the Antennas Direct CPA19. (My goal when designing for 'reliable reception' is to achieve a net NM at the TV in excess of 10 dB, 15 dB if possible... higher is better. The idea is to provide a 'fade margin'.) In my calculations, I provided for future connection of several more TVs.

The slightly larger HD7084P on a rotator would also work. My personal criticism of rotators is here: http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=2882 along with some alternate ideas. With only one TV connected, a rotator may be a preferred solution, you can add one later if you find you need the option.

On a more general point, all TV antennas will receive some amount of signal from all directions. Some are very directional, meaning they receive quite well from one direction and far less in most other directions. Some antennas are designed to have nearly equal gain in all directions, which almost always means that they will not have much gain in any one direction. It's always a trade off.

The Antennas Direct, Winegard, Antennacraft & Channel Master product are documented fairly well, making it possible to sit down, do some math and estimating that results in a well educated estimate of what you can expect from the installed product.

Here are the engineering data sheets for the DB4e, C5 & HD7082P:

http://www.antennasdirect.com/cmss_f...y/DB4E-TDS.pdf
http://www.antennasdirect.com/cmss_f...20with_uhf.pdf
http://www.winegarddirect.com/pdf/spec_HD7082P.pdf

Here are examples of how to relate the antenna performance and TV Fool report numbers: http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=109

Antenna install and power lines
 

Getting ready to install a Clearstream C5 antenna that will point to the east of my house. My plan is to put it on my garage, however, if I have it up in the air 20-30 feet, it will point straight into the powerlines that run down my alley. I would guess the power lines would be 20 feet away. How bad will this mess with my reception? Will this even be a problem?

Some, not all, power lines are problematic noise sources for real channels 2 through 6 in particular. Channels 7 through 13 are going to be affected less. The UHF channels will be impacted the least. If that location is the only choice you have... give it a try. If you have alternatives, great.

On a safety note: Stay far enough away from power lines so that if the antenna and mast fell they could not come in contact with the power lines.

Wow, thanks for the input. I greatly appreciate your time that you put into your advice. Thank you! For the time being, I'm going to put up the c5 and db4e and try them. If I can't get the results I'm hoping for, I'll return them and get the winegard you are suggesting. Antenna's Direct said that they can be returned within 30 days. I am going to look over these materials you provided though. Thank you!.....Hmmmm, athough, If I dont' have to buy a rotator for it, this would be a lot cheaper than the c5 and db4e.......Might have to give it some good thought.

Let us know how it goes. The C5 has limited gain on real CH-5. We'll be curious how you do... especially with the possible noise from the power lines.

unfortionatly, I'm going into trees in both directions. Channel 10 and channel 11 are actually the same channel. CBS Channel 10/11, so it wouldnt' be a big deal if I can't pick up 10 if I can get it on channel 11.

Tv Reception.
 

Aim the C5 at 245 degree and the DB4e at 250 degree.

No UHF at all. I tried hooking the two together with the diplexer, tried hooking only one antenna up at a time. With the c5, I can get 9 channels. With the DB4e, I can get 7. No UHF though....namely, no FOX. I am using a RCA DTA800B1 for my tuner. Any suggestions?

Do you have a preamp connected? If so, what make/model?

What's the total length of coax from the antenna to the tuner?

Can you describe the layout from the antenna to the tuner?
(Ex. Antenna, 2 feet of RG-6, UVSJ combiner, 10 feet of RG-6, splice, 50 feet of RG-6, 8-way splitter, 15 feet of RG-6, tuner)

Tv Reception.
 

The C5 at about 245 degree magnetic compass.

The DB4e at 250 degree magnetic compass.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

The C5 and DB4e connected to gather with the combiner.

At this time connect only 1 tuner/tv.

No splitters.

Rescan for channels.

KHNE PBS. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nebrask...communications.


Looks like KTVG is off the air.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KSNB-TV.


Tvfool is not 100% up to date.

It can take some digging to get closer to the latest information.

I have a question , how is the reception of , KHAS-DT channel 5 with the C5 antenna.

Any pixalation , picture drop outs , ??

If your tuner has a signal strength meter what does that show??