Need Help Buying the Right Antenna. Which is Best?
 

Hello,

I'm canceling my directv because it just costs to much for what I get from them. I have a 35' tower on top of the hill behind my house with an old beat up antenna on it. I have a rotor on the tower and a new AntennaCraft 10g-202 Pre-amplifier since I have to run 150' of RG-6 to connect the antenna to my house I do have trees around my tower so I don't have alot of clearance for a huge antenna to rotate. I've looked around the web and am still trying to find an appropriate antenna for my needs. Since I live out in the middle of the country with signals coming from several directions all well over 50 miles away. I have come across the HD Stacker antenna from Dennys as I've seen several posts on here about it and others. I'm hoping someone on here can help figure out if this Stacker antenna will work for me or not. Any help would be appreciated. Here's my TV Fool signal analysis report.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...4033f11956dc59

Thanks Dave

Tv Reception with Tv antennas
 

The link to the tvfool radar report is not working.

Thanks Electron put a new link in post above

Tv Reception with Tv antennas
 

It looks like some station information at tvfool is not correct , PBS and some other stations do not seem quite right when I check it to other web sites. If you will PM me with your exact address , I can get better answers.

No need to keep this out of view...

Dave, try this option to generate your TVFool report. Ensure that the red icon is actually pointed to your location in the map you get back. It's a Google map, so you can zoom in as required and drag the icon to the right place. Adjust the height of the expected antenna mounting location, then click the "Make Radar Plot" to generate the report. Share that URL with us.

Based on the report you shared with us, your closest CBS affiliate transmits on channel 4 in the low-VHF band. The HD Stacker is not designed for that band, so it will not be the best choice for you.

Hi Dave,
Thanks for the input. I have did as you said and centered in on where my antenna is located and at what height. Below is a link to the TV Fool report on this location. Thanks for your help.
Dave

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...40330ef1a04815

Tv Reception with Tv antennas
 

This recommendation is based on tvfools current and Pending Applications Included.

These digital stations channels are Very Weak.
For dependable and reliable reception of , KFXB-DT 43 religion tv , KCRG-TV 9 ABC and digital sub channel http://www.mynetworktv.com , KWWL 7 NBC and digital sub channels http://www.thistv.com , http://www.metvnetwork.com , KGAN 51 CBS and digital sub channel The Cool TV , KRIN-DT 35 PBS .

Install a Winegard HD7698P antenna with a Winegard AP8700 preamp , above the roof and aim the HD7698P antenna at about 255 degree magnetic compass.

Here are some antenna mounts , http://www.ronard.com/909911.html , http://www.ronard.com/34424560.html , http://www.ronard.com/ychim.com . Buy the ronard antenna mounts at solidsignal by typing the word ronard in the solidsignal search box or buy from ronard.

Here are places to buy antennas and etc. , http://www.winegarddirect.com , http://www.solidsignal.com , http://www.amazon.com , http://www.starkelectronic.com , http://www.3starinc.com

Tv Reception with Tv antennas
 

If you will like to receive , WHBF-TV 4 CBS and sub channel http://myretrotv.com . Install a Winegard YA6260 low band antenna with a Winegard AP3700 preamp , above the roof aimed at about 188 degree magnetic compass.

The two antennas there preamplifiers will be 2 separate systems and no part of the 2 separate systems will be connected together. Do Not connect to gether on to one coax.

A coax from each antenna and preamp will go to the location of the the tv and will be connected to a , http://www.mcmelectronics.com , part #: 32-4425 or http://www.radioshack.com , part #: 15-1968 , remote control A/B antenna switch and the output of the AB switch will be connected to the tv.

Thanks for your replies I really appreciate it. I plan on putting the antenna on the existing 35' tower I have on top of the hill behind my house. I have a new rotor and Pre-amp. Are there any antennas that will do the work of drawing in the signals or do I really need to have 2 antennas on top of the tower? I can live without receiving WHBF-TV 4 CBS. I would like to receive the channels from Madison, WI. WISC 50, WMTV 19, WKOW 26, WMSN 49, WBUW 32. These are the closest channels to me for up to date weather and news.
Is this possible does anyone think?
Thanks Dave

Based on predicted signal strength, you might see WKOW using an Antennas Direct XG91 or a Winegard HD9032. A taller tower will be needed for the rest of the Madison stations.

Tv Reception with Tv antennas
 

No it is not a requirement to receive WHBF 4 CBS and RTV. For reception of the Madison stations , use the HD7698P antenna as a test antenna.

Ultimately, this gets down to whether to believe the mild terrain blockage predicted for Madison. The XG-91 (or, maybe, even a stack of two of them) is your best bet for those stations. If they don't work, only one of the stations from Cedar Rapids is in the UHF band, so that is capability gone to waste. Going for the HD7698P antenna is a risk reduction. If it doesn't work for Madison, you can swing it towards Cedar Rapids and get everything but the NBC station. You can choose to add a low-VHF antenna later and combine it with the 7698 using a HLSJ combiner.

Tv Reception with Tv antennas
 

Thats some tricky wording. My eyes are crossed. As stated in my detailed post of the stations to be received by the HD7698P antenna in the direction of the Cedar Rapids Area Stations , ( I count 3 UHF Stations and 2 VHF high band stations) ( so nothing has gone to waste). , the HD7698P antenna receives the VHF high channels of 7 thru 13 and the UHF channels of 14 thru 69. NBC is a VHF high channel. . Swing the HD7698P antenna around to Madison does not make HD7698P antenna any less of a antenna , it is being used as a test. . If , as in , if the Madison UHF stations are received it will likely require a dedicated 91XG or Winegard HD9095 uhf antenna. or even two 91XG's with a preamp or two HD9095's with a preamp.

Tv Reception with Tv antennas
 

If a rotor is to be used , a HD7084P all channel antenna can replace the HD7698P and YA6260.

John, I was agreeing with you. The point is trying for Madison up front is a risky bet.

WOW!! so much to consider. Looking at all the different options I'm still a little confused. Glad you guys are out here to help me along. I don't have a lot of money to invest right now so I'm trying to get the most bang for my buck. What do you guys think of the Channel Master CM3671 antenna. It seems to have a long range to it as in miles. But not sure how much gain it has on VHF or UHF. Or if I should even consider it.

Thanks

For some reason, Channel Master has chosen to make finding the performance specifications for their antenna products more difficult than other vendors. Here is a link to their catalog which seems to bury the gain specs on page 19. The CM3671 is a solid VHF antenna based on these numbers. As a UHF antenna, it falls short of the performance of the HD7698P and XG91 by a significant amount.

Yes & a lot of new cars promise 40 MPG as well. Unfortunately most of them won't deliver those numbers under real world conditions.:(

Stick with one of the antennas recommended by the fine folks here & you will be a happy camper in OTA heaven.

So it seems I should invest in the HD7698P. Does everyone agree this would be my best bet? It appears to me that I'm basically going to have to be satisfied with getting the stations out of the Cedar Rapids area. HEY, Better than nothing at all. These stations are all around 79 miles from me. So what I was wondering about the HD7698P is that it says its range is VHF 70 miles and UHF 60 miles. Will it receive these stations reliably or is it just a have to wait and see sort of thing.

Thanks everyone.

Tv Reception with Tv antennas
 

My original recommendation of a HD7698P antenna and a YA6260 antenna is to make it easy to receive the stations in those directions , two antennas , two preamplifiers , and a remote control AB antenna switch makes it easy , no waiting for the antenna to rotate around on the rotor.

If you choose to use a antenna rotor. A HD7084P all channel antenna can be used with the rotor.

I know you say you are not interested in channel 4 , however I predict you will be.

The HD7084P antenna can also be aimed at the Madison tv stations as a test of reception. With all the choices presented with the others and Electron.

What would I do , I would install a HD7698P antenna and AP8275 preamp and a YA6260 antenna and AP3700 preamp. I would rotate the HD7698P antenna and preamp , by hand , around to get a idea of the Madison reception. If , some or all of the Madison stations are received with the HD7698P antenna and preamp , then the rotor could be used to receive the Cedar Rapids and Madison.

Tv Reception with Tv antennas
 

As to the mileage numbers that are listed with antennas , the numbers are a general guide that do not mean much because of all the variable factors , open space , hills , mountains , trees , buildings , and etc. . Received signal strength is more important.

Thanks, sounds like if I just want to put up one antenna on a rotor, which I would prefer to do. That I should go with the HD7084 and be able to pick up all channels 2-69 if there signals are strong enough. I do have one more question? It compares gain on the winegarddirect website. One gain is listed as db gain over reference dipole and the other is front to back ratio. Whats the difference between the two, and how do I read it when it compares them to the different channel numbers they list as examples. On the bottom of there web page
http://www.winegarddirect.com/viewit...4P%29&p=HD7084

Thanks again

Winegard uses a 'standard dipole antenna' as the reference to compare the performance of their antennas against. An antenna specified with 10 dBd of gain will produce that much more signal than the reference dipole antenna.

A high front to back ratio means that a signal arriving from the rear of the antenna will not be received well.

For example, if you have two stations on the same channel, one to the east and the other to the west, an antenna with a high front to back ratio will be able to receive the station it's pointed at while receiving little interference from the station behind the antenna.

On the other hand, if you had desirable signals coming from opposite directions, an antenna with low front to back ratio would be able to receive signals from the front and rear without need of a rotator.

Sometimes you'll see the unit dBd which is the same as saying 'decibels referenced to a dipole'. Some vendors use an isotropic antenna as the reference standard and specify this using "dBi". A standard dipole has 2.15 dB gain compared to an isotropic antenna. So to compare the gain specifications of different vendors, you may need to add 2.15 to the dBd value or subtract 2.15 from the dBi value to get an 'apples to apples' comparison.

Do you think the HD7084 will give me good enough reception on my UHF channels? Says that its range is 45 miles approximately and all of my channels are over 55 miles away. I would like to just install one antenna for all the VHF and UHF channels on a rotor. Or do you think there is an all channel antenna that would be better than the HD7084.

Thanks

Mileage estimates are an unscientific method for marketing and sales to explain their product to customers who lack an understanding of the more precise gain figures provided by more reputable antenna manufactures.

TV Fool provides information regarding your predicted reception conditions that just a few years ago would have required the expertise and expense of a consulting engineering firm to obtain.

Using the predicted values from your TVFR, we can use the gain specifications of reputable antenna vendors to far more accurately match your conditions with the right antenna vs. using crude marketing mileage estimates.

I believe your best hope for reliable UHF reception is an XG91. IMO, reliable reception of real channel 4 will require more gain than any available consumer grade antenna can provide, but if you want to try, an HD8200U would be the best available option. For reception of real channel 7 and 9 I would use an Antennacraft Y-10713, it lends itself to stacking better than the YA1713 by Winegard. If needed, a second Y-10713 could be added to improve reception.

If you need to make this a single combination antenna installation, I would recommend the HD7698P.

Thanks for your replies. I think I have it pretty well figured out now. And I should go with an HD7698P antenna and not worry about getting channel 4 WHBF out of the Quad cities since it's on low VHF. I'm just hoping I can get this massive antenna up my steep hill and up the 35' tower. Any suggestions on how to haul this antenna up the tower. Should I climb the tower first and lift it up with a rope or try and carry this up while I'm climbing the tower. How do you guys do it? Any thoughts on how to do this the best way would be appreciated.

Thanks Dave

I climb, safety in, then haul equipment and tools. Having someone on the ground who can control a tag line and act as a second set of eyes is highly recommended. Using a haul rope and tag line allows you and the person on the ground to raise and lower equipment without getting tangled in the tower.

My career in telcom included some tower work including training in high angle rescue. I don't think you need to invest in a Class III rescue harness, but a basic sport harness, related accessories and training in their safe use is worth the money IMO. You also need to be able to inspect the tower and determine with certainty that it's safe to climb and support the loads you'll put on it with ropes and equipment.

At the risk of being accused of fear mongering, I know of real incidents where falling from even six feet has resulted in death.

Thanks for the advice I appreciate it. Having fallen 35' out of a tree with a chainsaw in my hand taught me a valuable lesson. I don't want to repeat that fall again. My tower does have a slight lean to it I know it's not straight up vertically. Is this going to cause a problem with my rotor do you think?

Thanks Again

I'm guessing at how sever the lean is... If the tower is safe to climb, I'd expect the rotator to tolerate a bit of 'out-of-plumb'.

Hello Again, Just got my rotor and HD7698P antenna with a pre- amp installed as directed with the help of all you good folks. My problem now is I don't pick up any stations at all no matter what direction I aim my antenna. What could be wrong? How do I go about figuring out if I did something wrong? I put in a guy wire from the antenna to the house so that I could run the rotor cable and coax cable off the ground. I wrapped the coax and rotor wire around this guy wire and also put on plastic ties to secure it to the guy wire. Would this create a problem? Please help me!

Thanks Dave

Tv antennas and Tv reception
 

Hello, Got my HD7698P antenna working and can pick up KWWL 7, KCRG 9, KIIN 12, KGAN 51 and their sub channels out of Cedar Rapids. Also with the rotor I can aim it towards Madison and pick up WKOW 26, WISC 50, WHA 20, and WMSN 49 and their sub channels. Which I'm happy to see that I'm receiving these channels. My question now is can I add another UHF only antenna and stack it with my HD7698P and join them together before the pre-amp so I don't have to run another coax to the antenna? Will this help me pick up even more stations or not? If so which would be the best UHF antenna to stack with my HD7698P. Please let me know your thoughts on this and if I should bother adding another antenna or not to pick up more stations.

Thanks Dave

Wow. You're getting down to predicted -15 dB noise margins, so it's going to be really hard to do any better. You most definitely do not want to try to stack anything. It's a real crapshoot as to which channels will be better and which ones will be worse. There will be losers.

Tv antennas and Tv reception
 

For your reception situation you Can Not combine the HD7698P antenna and the UHF antenna together. The two antennas will cross talk and the reception results will not be good. As a test you can connect them together with a splitter connected in reverse , go ahead and try it , the results will not be good.

Tv antennas and Tv reception
 

For reception of the madison stations install a Winegard HD9095P UHF antenna with a Winegard AP8700 preamp in a fixed position aimed at the Madison stations. Two separate coaxes of the two separate antenna systems will go all the way to the Tv location where one of the A/B switch will be used.

Thanks Everyone,
Sounds Like I'm doing good with the channels I'm getting. Once I got it installed I was thrilled with the stations I was receiving. So I guess I was just interested in seeing if I could receive even more channels. Thanks Again for all your help with my antenna and installation I really appreciate it.
Dave