Antenna options
 

Hello folks.

Just recently I have been trying to cut the cord. The last thing i need to be able to get rid of my satellite is some sort of live football. So one day i came across the idea of getting an antenna and picking up some of the stations out of detroit/toledo. So in my search i came across the mohu sky 60 that should in theory be able to get these stations (approx 55 miles away).

Here is the tvfool report http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...f1f0f041179fff

I figure the best i can do is on the roof mounting. So maybe 25 feet? What would you guys suggest? The db8e also looks promising. Also I am only really concerned with NBC FOX CBS and ABC. Anything else would be a bonus.

Also where would you suggest i mount the antenna? Here are a couple pictures of my house. I have a tree in my backyard and my neighbor does too. The direction i need to point is approximately between the two trees. Also my house has aluminum siding if that makes any difference.


Here are a few pictures.

My roof

Between the two houses

Render of my house

Thanks for any help you guys can give me. When coming up with this idea it seemed pretty easy until i started researching. Made me realize i dont know nearly enough and to find the advice of people that do.

Greetings,

You are on the "bleeding" edge of Detroit. This means, you may see the signals sometimes, others not in the best of conditions.

If possible, post plots at 30 and 50 feet above ground to see if you gain any additional signal from Detroit.

EDIT: if you those trees are in the path of magnetic 240, they will be a problem.

Cheers.

30 feet

50 feet

Thanks.

At 50' you improve Detroit signal access enough that stable reception could be achieved. That said, it is imperative that no tree obstructions are in the path of magnetic 240.

You are right that DB8e was a good choice. I would recommend that antenna in this application. I would also add a Antennacraft Y10713 VHF antenna. The VHF antenna would be for Detroit's FOX affiliate on channel 7.

I'd be reluctant to run a preamp with the presence of CIII and it's plentiful signal. Instead I'd opt for an Antennas Direct signal combiner as found here:

https://www.antennasdirect.com/store...Combiners.html

That product allows separate UHF and VHF antennas to be consolidated into one coaxial lead coming into your home.

For the best chance of success mounting the DB8e and Y10713 50' above ground both orientated to magnetic 240 would give you the best chance at reliable reception.

Rohn makes some quality collapsible masts.
http://www.rohnnet.com/rohn-telescoping-masts

Cheers.

Hmm. I was hoping i could get away without some sort of tower. Im not sure the wife would approve of that. Given that CIII is at a vastly different angle and the db8e is directional is it still going to pick up the signal?

Off axis, since CIII has such a good signal, yes it ought to pick it up off axis.

RE: Detroit. You can try lower elevations for antenna mountings. You may get lucky, you may not. At 25' your map is clear though with signal strengths and pathways that Detroit is on the ragged edge of being reliable. Only at 50' do you begun to have a enough signal to move it into "weak but likely reliable.'

Now you are in, 'very weak, intermittent' at 25.'

Cheers.

Ok thanks for the help. I will try to get some sort of mast mounted to my roof to put the antenna as high as possible. As of right now I am in the purchase planning stage so nothing has been bought. Also you were saying buying another antenna for the vhf? If my reading serves me i should need some sort of fm filter? Here is a readout of the radio stations in my area FMFool. Also would this be a viable alternative to the antenna you posted as it is more compact and would more likely pass the wife test. C5 Clearstream 5

Your TVFool Plots all indicate that they are only resolved to the block level. That means the software could tell exactly where your house is. I recommend re-doing all the plots with the following instructions: http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=14508

Your plots may or may not change, but it is good information to have.

Okay this is what ive got http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...f1f0465e72a163 At 35 ft

You're going to need a lot more horsepower on UHF than a C5 can offer. However, you will need it (or something comparable or stronger) for the Fox station out of Detroit. The rest of the Detroit stations are all UHF, so a fringe/deep fringe UHF antenna is needed.

A preamp is needed. Our Juice can handle far stronger signals that CIII will provide. However, since any directional UHF antenna aimed at Detroit will be edge-on to CIII's signal, it will be anywhere from 10 to 30 dB below the forecasted level.

Look carefully for a tree-free path towards Detroit. Your UHF reception, in particular, will depend on that.

I'd also plan on an FM filter on the front end of the preamp. That will keep the amplified FM out of your TV tuners. You have a 50 kW FM station about 3 miles away.

Thanks ADTech. I was thinking of combining the C5 with the DB8e. I will go take a look at the juice preamp. is this it? https://www.antennasdirect.com/store...nf=49&slot=100

No that's the PA18 which is not recommended for your location.

https://www.antennasdirect.com/store...amplifier.html

OK thanks ADTech. Do you know if the lifetime warranty is still valid if bought off amazon? I have a gift card on there I can use towards the purchase.

Also does anyone know if i can repurpose the roof mount for my satellite dish and put another mast in the top of it? I know i am going to have to add some guy wires to it if i can do this.

Ok so i have bit the bullet and purchased the db8 with 15 ft of mast that i am going to mount to my roof. I will be purchasing the juice amp in the future. I just couldnt find it on amazon. What would be a safe distance for rg6? I am putting in a hdhomerun network tuner so i could locate it wherever i needed it to be.

Go to Amazon.com. In the search window, enter "antennas direct juice" (include the quotes). It's that easy to find.

Antenna warranties are valid if the antenna was purchased through an authorized retail partner or distribution channel. Common exceptions are Amazon marketplace vendors or ebay sellers who are re-selling product that was returned to a retailer and we've already credited the retailer who was supposed to destroy the returned product.

Do NOT extend the satellite dish mount unless it also has the support legs. As far as if it will work for your situation, we don't know. You'll have to analyze its location relative to where the antenna NEEDS to be in order for the signal to get to it.

What support legs are you referring to?

If originally used on the sat dish.
http://www.thesatelliteshop.net/imag...%20Antenna.jpg

If you have a 'standard' J-mount that has only the base plate and you choose to extend it without any additional supports, be prepared to accept whatever consequences that occur.

Does that apply for fascia mounting as well? I work in a fabrication shop so i can whip up some supports if need be.

First impressions:

TLDR; This antenna is awesome.

I just put together the antenna and threw it in the holder for my patio umbrella as a test. I am picking up 9 stations, some of them out of detroit. 4.1 comes in with a signal strength of 57. Many of the others are not watchable as they come in and out. This is without any sort of signal booster and at a height of 10 feet. Once i get this mounted on the roof i think i will get much better reception. Thanks for all the help guys. If this works out the next step will be getting a c5 for vhf (unless someone can reccomend something better that isnt a massive yagi) and the hdhomerun to send it through the house.

Was it the DB8 or DB8e that you purchased? Both are very directional when it comes to weak UHF signals. 10-20° off in either direction can easily make or break reception of those weak signals.

At patio umbrella height and if you're in a suburban type environment, I'd assume there is significant surrounding clutter such as trees, other homes, and the like. Work on getting the antenna into a spot where it has the clearest available line of sight back towards Detroit, regardless of whether that is high or low. A clear but low mounting location is usually far better than a higher location that is, for example, behind the crown of a tree.

Do NOT drill any holes in your house until you have satisfactorily demonstrated reception. I can't tell you how many times I've had to tell customers to move their antenna to fix reception issues. The unrealistic expectation is that a convenient mounting location can be made to work satisfactorily by wishful thinking just because it's convenient and doesn't require any extra work.

I purchased the db8e. It is sitting somewhat underneath my back tree. It doesnt have leaves on it yet so it is not affecting things quite as much as it will. I do have a spot on my roof that seems like it will have a pretty good clear view to detroit. As for the suburban aspect I am right on the south end of my town with not much in the way behind me. No more houses just a few commercial buildings and a refinery a mile or two away.

Ok so i managed to get this thing up without killing myself. Good news is where i placed it it has a clear view beyond my neighbours tree. Right now it is just the antenna with about 30 feet of rg6-quad hooked up to it.

Pictures

Picture 1

Picture 2

Channels I get (just showing the main channel):

4.1 - 100%
7.1 - 75%
20.1 - 80%
28.1 - 50%
29.1 - 60%
31.1 - 60%
38.1 - 80%
50.1 - 40%
51.1 - 85%
56.1 - 75%
62.1 - 75%

To be honest I wasnt expecting to get so many of these. According to the tvfool report some of these should be almost impossible. Anyways I had a couple of questions. The antenna bobs around a bit in the wind. Should I be putting guy wires on it? Also can anyone see any issues with my mounting method? And thirdly I am planning on connecting the antenna to the outside rg6 i had run for the satellite. I would estimate the total rg6-quad at about 70 - 100 feet. Is an amplifier needed for this length?

Thanks for all the help guys. I really appreciate all the information i have gotten so far.

Oh and does anyone think i can pull in fox if i add a c5?

Hey guys i am planning on adding a c5 and a juice preamp. Where does the amp for the preamp go? Before the combiner?

Eg.
Antennas
Combiner
Amp
Power inserter
Tv

It depends on whether you want to amplify just the VHF signals from the C5 or both the UHF signals from the DB8e and the VHF signals from the C5.

To amplify both, mount the preamp after the combiner.

To amplify just the VHF, mount the preamp between the C5 and the combiner. In this case you would have to make sure your combiner passes DC voltage on the VHF side so that the DC voltage from the power inserter is able to get to the preamp.

I would either lower the antenna or attach guy wires. That is too much height without some kind of support.

Won't work, the provided combiner doesn't pass power out the VHF port.

Combine, then amplify both.

Here's the basic diagram: https://www.antennasdirect.com/cmss_...e_Antennas.pdf

Ok and where would i put an FM Trap? Between the antenna and the the combiner?

Install the filter between the U/V combiner and the input of the preamp.

The Pico Macom and the Blonder-Tonque UVSJ combiners pass DC on the VHF side if that feature should be needed in an installation.

Hey guys,

Had someone knock over my antenna while it was sitting in my backyard and it did some damage to it.

One of the bowties is broken off entirely and the other one is loose. Here are some pictures.

Broken bowtie

Loose bowtie

Is the antenna toast at this point? Or is it repairable? Should I just put it up and see how it performs?

Thanks for the help

Call in Monday between 9-5 Central and ask for Melissa. She should be able to find you what you need.

We often scrap out antennas that are not resellable but we do keep some of the parts on hand.

I managed to fix it (i hope). I used a vice to compess the pins holding the loose ones so they were tight and epoxied the boken one back on. Hopefully it works good

Hi guys.
I just got my c5 and got it installed. I was having issues with picking up fox vhf channel 7). I found a local antenna shop and they suggested getting a preamp. Got it installed and all working. The problem is the signal quality on that channel is only around 50% and it cuts in and out. Any ideas? The preamp has a fm trap built in and it doesnt seem to make any difference having it on or off.

https://rgng7a.by3302.livefilestore....d-1.jpg?psid=1

On another note, channel 45 which is in the same area as channel 7 comes in at 98% signal quality.

The link to your image doesn't work.

What preamp did you get?

WDIV NBC is on real channel 45 which comes in on the DB8E; WJBK Fox on real channel 7 comes in on the C5.

How is your system hooked up; what is connected to what?

What are you using to measure signal quality, the HDHR for Signal Quality (SNR) and Symbol Quality (Inverse of Errors)?

Sorry, here is a link to the picture.

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resi...nt=photo%2cjpg

DB8e + C5 to combiner then to amplifier

I am using the HDHR for signal readings.

edit: The preamp is an antennacraft 10G212

A 30 dB preamp probably isn't a good idea when you have several FM stations within 10 miles of you, two of which are 50 kW stations. See if you can swap the amp for one of the 15-20 dB models.

Well it is adjustable from 18 - 30. I could turn it all the way down maybe? The place i bought it from doesnt accept returns unless its broken. Could another fm trap help maybe?

If you click on the pending button in your report you will see that you have not 2 but 3 local strong channels; CHCH on real channel 29 from London has been added.

ADTech suggested that you order the Juice preamp because he thought it would tolerate your strong local signals while providing amplification for the much weaker Detroit signals if you amplified UHF and VHF signals. As you found out the Juice is backordered because of a manufacturing parts shortage.

If you want to amplify just the C5 VHF signals and let the DB8E provide the extra gain for the UHF signals, you would need to use a UHF/VHF combiner AKA UVSJ, that would pass power to the VHF only amp. The AD combiner can't do that, but there are UVSJs that will as pointed out by Tim in post #29.

There is a test that you can do now to see if your preamp can receive Fox on real channel 7 if it is protected from the strong local UHF signals from Oil Springs and London.

I suggest you try just the C5 connected to the VHF input of the combiner with the DB8E not connected to the combiner.

C5 > combiner > preamp > coax > power inserter > tuner

You can also add an FM filter between the combiner and the input of the preamp if you think the FM filter in the preamp isn't enough to attenuate your strong local FM signals. See attachment for an FM report based on my estimate of your location. You can do your own report using your exact address to see how close I came (southern edge of Sherwood Village):
http://www.fmfool.com/index.php?opti...pper&Itemid=29

How does the DB8E do on the Detroit signals (Not including Fox) without the amp? Are you satisfied with the results?

Ok i will test that out. London is on the back side of the antenna and I dont even pick it up. The one from Oil springs i do pick up but not with 100% signal quality as it is pretty off axis from where I have the antennas pointed. I would prefer to keep the db8e amplified as it does help a few problematic channels come in reliably. If i remember correctly i did have only the c5 hooked up at one points just to the amp but not though the combiner. Does that make a difference?

Yes it does because the combiner protects the preamp from the strong UHF signals in the test that I suggested. The VHF input passes VHF signals but rejects UHF signals. The UHF input passes UHF signals and rejects VHF signals. Look at the UVSJ specs here:
http://www.hollandelectronics.com/ca...-Diplexers.pdf

That would be a balancing act to provide a little more gain for UHF without overloading the preamp which would harm the reception of your weak signals. It has to do with the Dynamic Range which is the difference between your strongest signals and your weakest desired signals. When the preamp is overloaded by strong signals it produces spurious signals from IMD (Intermodulation Distortion) within the preamp that wipe out your weakest desired signals.

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.p...6&d=1441051859

There is a limit to the Dynamic Range that your system can handle. When the Dynamic Range is too great you must resort to exotic (expensive) measures like custom filters and separate antennas for problem channels.

There is a technique that I use when without a preamp doesn't give enough gain and with a preamp gives too much gain. It is to insert an attenuator between the antenna and the input of the preamp to find the happy medium.