Setup Help
 

I cut my Time Warner Cable this month after debating over it for a while.

My TVFool report is here: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...1ddad5495e5145

We have 6 rooms that would ideally get the local channels.

Any equipment suggestions?

Thanks for the advice.

I would be quite a bit more aggressive in my selection of an antenna. A larger all channel antenna such as the Winegard HD7084P would be my choice. I believe you'll need the added gain for both the Low-VHF and the UHF signals. Also, I would opt for a preamp with better noise performance, I'm thinking of the Antennas Direct PA-18.

A satellite J-pole is a bit small if not guyed, also, the antenna needs to be high enough to 'see' over, not through the roof. Can you chimney or gable mount?

Wow, that antenna is huge. Would I need to be more aggressive due to the distance, or because I need 6 rooms?

I do not have a chimney. I would really like to re-use the satellite mount if possible. Would rather not have a bunch of equipment mounted on my roof if I can avoid it. I can take a picture of my satellite mount when I get home if it helps.

Above the roof in such a manner that the roof and house are not blocking reception to the , north - north east , install a Winegard HD7082P antenna with a Winegard AP8275 preamp , aimed at about 25 degree magnetic compass direction.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

The Leviton 6 way splitter is not power passing , so install the AP8275 / power inserter / power supply , before the splitter input.

Here are some - Strong - and - Sturdy - roof top antenna mounts.

http://www.ronard.com/909911.html. If using the tripod antenna mount use the 5 foot tripod antenna mount.

http://www.ronard.com/34424560.html. If using the eave antenna mount use the #4560.

http://www.ronard.com/ychim.html.

http://www.ronard.com.

Buy the ronard antenna mounts at solidsignal by typing the word ronard in the solidsignal search box or buy from ronard.

_________________

As always trees and tree leaves do a good job of , reflecting , reducing , blocking , Digital Broadcast Tv reception and so do buildings and other obstructions including your own roof and house.

It is best to install the HD7082P antenna at a location that has the least amount to no amount of obstructions of any type or kind in the directions of reception including your own roof and house.

The Tv's Must Channel Scan for the Digital Broadcast Tv stations/channels , often named the 'Air Channels' or 'Antenna Channels' in the Tv Setup Menu because the Tv transmissions travel through the Air from the transmitting antenna to the receiving antenna.

Some Digital Tv's will automatic channel scan for cable tv channels.

DO NOT channel scan for cable tv channels.

Go into the Digital Tv Setup Menu and select , 'Air Channels' / 'Antenna Channels'.

___________

Here are some places to buy antennas and etc. , http://www.solidsignal.com , http://www.amazon.com , http://www.winegarddirect.com.

The signal levels shown in your report are the deciding factor. You need the larger antenna to ensure a reliable signal at the output of the antenna. If you have a reliable signal at the antenna, the correct amplifier will then be able to drive all the rooms you want. (An amplifier is not an antenna, nor even a poor substitute for one.)

Thanks for all the help guys. Few questions.

Do you mean North-NorthWest or North-NorthEast? Looks like my signal will be coming slightly form the NE. Also, just for my own edification, why do you say 25 degrees when the channels are coming from 16, 17, and 20 degrees?

I corrected it to say , north - north east.

WHTN-DT REAL channel 38 is at 54 degree magnetic compass direction.

WSMV-TV REAL channel 10 is at 12 degree magnetic compass direction.

25 degree magnetic compass direction is a in between aim direction.

As always , the starting antenna aim direction is the --> starting antenna aim direction.

The antenna can be adjusted for best reception.

Most Digital Tv's have a Signal Strength meter and some Digital Tv have a Signal Quality Meter.

I see the Low Signal Strengths of , FOX , CW , ION.

I am aware of the ongoing situation with , WMB channel 5 that is not on the air , and , WTVF Channel 5 and WTVF channel 25.

I see the 2 edge path obstructions , 2 or more hills/mountains , in the tvfool channel list.

I think about the trees that are most likely close/in the area to the house and other obstructions that are most likely close/in the area to the house.

And and the continuing reception reports from the question askers that are installing antennas.

And more , technical , practical , useful , information , that I have not listed here.

And the many years I have of installing antennas.

And I say to My Self.

Better to Go Big for this recommendation , so as to have Reliable Reception.

However as always , you are 100% Free to install any antenna and antenna system that you choose.

You are 100% Free to Test and Experiment.

There are Many , advisors , suggesters , recommenders , all across the internet and every where , that have something to say about Tv reception.

Do you think I could get FOX with the 7082 mounted in an attic? What about CBS and NBC?

Oops. Double post.

I have given you my best shot at recommendation for Reliable Reception at your location.

The preamplifier I have recommended is a High Gain preamplifier.

Most likely , Fox , CW , ION , will not be received with antenna in the attic.

There Are No - Magic Tv Antennas , There Are No - Magic Tv Antenna System Amplifiers.

The -->Only Way<-- to know for sure , is put the HD7082P antenna in the attic.

---->As always you are 100% Free to do any type or kind of antenna installation<----.

You can listen to and follow your own advice , You can listen to and follow other peoples advice.

One other advisor has provided a recommendation.

There are other advisors here at tvfool , perhaps they can provide a recommendation and solution.

At some point You will take Action on What You Know.

Here is the Federal Antenna Law that says Yes you can Install a Broadcast Tv antenna Above The Roof , so as to have Reliable Reception.

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html.

Please report on your installation and reception experience so that others can gain knowledge.

Agreed, you can try in the attic, but outside in the clear is a better choice. How your attic affects your reception is impossible to predict accurately.

Understood. Thanks for all the assistance.

Okay, I know you guys have already given your recommendations. However, I have an update. I went up on the roof with a RCA Antenna today and was able to receive ABC, NCB, CBS, and FOX.

They were all either in the Normal or Good range on my TV. None were in the "Weak". Is there an antenna that would get better reception than the RCA, but is not as big as the 7082 or 7084? Something closer to the size of the ANT751R at Lowes?

Thanks

My minimum recommendation would be the Winegard 7694P if mounted outside. If you will be mounting in the attic, my minimum suggestion would be the HBU-33.

A wide LO band antenna is not necessary as CBS is simulcast on UHF.

Looks like the 7694 doesn't claim the same range (40miles) as the ANT751r. Is that just marketing stuff? It claims 35 mile UHF and 25 Mile VHF.

What do you think about the Clearstream products?

Mileage ratings are pretty much useless when evaluating real world performance. The actual specifications are a much better parameter.

The C2V should work for you outside since the ANT751 tested well for you yesterday. The C2V is not quite as sensitive on VHF, but your weakest channels are UHF. I wouldn't recommend the C2V in the attic since the signals will be weaker & the potential for multipath interference is much higher, especially with VHF.

Is the 7694 stronger than the C2v across the board? 7694 would be the biggest antenna I would want. Really just looking for anything a bit stronger than the 751R no more than roughly a foot or two longer/wider. Much bigger than that and I think the Mrs would rather just do without.

They are about the same on UHF, but the 7694 is better on VHF than the C2V. The C2v should work fine if mounted outside.

Thanks. So my last question is what would be the best configuration. I have 2 options.

Option 1

The best place I have found with optimal LOS at 16 degrees for the reception of ABC, NBC, CBS, and FOX is about 3 feet from an attic vent. I can install the C2V, run the RG6 in to the attic vent utilizing about 10 feet of cable, then install a preamp (the Winegard AP8275 was suggested above). From there, I would need to run about 5 feet of RG6 to a 3-Way Splitter. One of the outputs would go to the bonus room (15 feet), one would go to the bedroom upstairs (25 feet), and one would go to the crawl space (50 feet) joining to another splitter. In the crawl space I would need to install a 4-Way splitter. One output would go to the deck (25 feet), one would go to the living room (15 feet), one would go to the bedroom (15 feet), and one would go to the kitchen (25 feet). The reason being, is all the cable from my existing satellite comes in to the crawl space. Would I need the preamp AND a distribution amp?

Option 2

Option two requires a longer run from the antenna to the preamp, but only one splitter. I would run the RG6 from the antenna, down the front of the roof (is running RG6 on the Roof not tied down OK?). It would then run down a gutter, in to the crawl space. The total run from the antenna to the preamp location would be about 50 feet. Then from the preamp I could connect a 6 way splitter and feed all lines in the house. Would I need a preamp and a distribution amp?

I like option 2 better, but would opt for an 8 way amplified splitter instead of a pre-amp. Daisy chaining passive splitters after a preamp results in way too much signal loss downstream.

Why don't you just try this scenario with the ANT751 first since you already have it? If you find this set-up doesn't provide enough signal, you can move up to the C2V or 7694 antenna to improve UHF gain down the 50 foot cable run. VHF signal loss in 50 feet of RG-6 will not be a concern.

Ok. So I will install the C2V in the location that has the best view of 16 degrees. Then run 50' of RG6 to the crawl space at which point I install the CM3418. That is the exact place my current DTV 8 way splitter is located, so no additonal runs will be required. I will report back with the results!

Ok I held the Clearstream 2v antenna while my wife checked signal. For the four majors (ABC, NBC, CBS, and FOX) I got 77, 72, 67, 50 on the signal meters using a 40 foot coax cable and the same TV that I used for the ANT751. How do I know if those signals are strong enough to avoid drop outs? I have no way to keep the antenna in the same location for any extended period without actually mounting it to the roof.

Unfortunately, each signal meter is different. Some can go down to as low as 10 before signal breakup occurs. You will only know after observing for a few hours/maybe days. Reception on windy days is usually a good way to judge how well your system is working.

Once you connect the system to the distribution amp, that should bump up the reading on the signal meter. You may end up needing to make some fine tuning adjustments if any channels do in fact give you any problems.

Ok. So best thing to do is go ahead and mount it in the spot that I got those signals, and watch it for a few hours/days? I guess my only worry would be if this antenna is not strong enough, and I have already mounted the J-Pole and having to pull it out and put in a new antenna and mount. Patching those holes up so the roof doesn't leak can be tricky.

If the C2V doesn't work out, can you use the ANT751 instead?

The C2V seemed to be a bit stronger for everything but fox. FOX was about the same. I think if anything I would have to move up to a Clearstream 4 with some kind of VHF addon if they have one. I would assume my potential problem is not the VHF channel, but the furthest UHF channel (FOX).

One of the reasons I recommended the Antenna setup that I recommended is ,

http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/WRTN-LP.

RTV , COZi Tv , Tuff Tv , Classic Movies.

This Digital Tv station is Very Weak signal strength.

And also I recommend the HD7082P antenna because it will provide Reliable Reception of the Digital Tv stations/channels that can be received.

The only channels I care about is ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX. I do not care about any others. I only need these channels for News, Weather, and Football Season. Does that change your recommendation at all as far as the antenna goes?

Antennas Direct Install Complete
 

I completed my install today. Here is a rundown.

Parts

1. Antennas Direct Clearstream C2V
2. Antennas Direct 40" J-Mount (Upgrade from inclued mount)
3. Antennas Direct CPA19 Preamp
4. Passive Ideal 8-Way Splitter

Steps
I first held the antenna in my proposed location while my wife scanned for channels. I got 23 (most I had gotten to date) with signal levels as follows:

ABC - 72
NBC - 67
CBS - 62
FOX - 47

Those were all the highest signal levels I had gotten to this point. I then went ahead and bolted the mount to the roof, adjusted the J-Mount, mounted the antenna, and mounted the preamp. I wired everything up. My coax runs from the preamp about 18 feet in to the attic to the Preamp Power Inserter. From the power inserter, my coax runs about 70 feet to an 8-way splitter. It then runs about 30 feet in all directions to different rooms. After I wired everything up, I took the same TV I tested with around to all the rooms to check.

I dropped from 23 channels to 21, and my signal strength was as follows:

ABC - 67
NBC - 64
CBS - 67
FOX - 47

So my signal strengths stayed pretty close, but I lost two channels. I am happy overall. We watched TV for about 20 minutes tonight with no dropouts. The only question I have at the moment would be if anyone had any idea why I would have lost 2 channels? The channels I lost were PBS, which is my strongest channel. I do not understand how I lost my strongest channel.

When did you lose PBS? After adding the 8 way splitter?

After mounting the antenna and adding the amp (before the splitter addition) I dropped from 23 to 21 channels.

Just took the preamp and splitter out of the equation and rescanned. Still no PBS, now I am rather confused.

Did you bypass both components of the pre-amp?

Yup both. I went straight from the antenna out to a tv. So now, the only time I could get PBS was when I was holding the antenna in the general direction checking location before I mounted. And it was like 85 signal strength which is better than all my others.

Any ideas?

Sounds like the antenna is in a dead spot for PBS. Any metal near the antenna?

There is an aluminum air vent near where the coax enters the house. During my original test the antenna was in the exact same spot though. Anything I can do? I would hate to move it having already drilled in to my roof.

I originally only cared about the 4 major networks but this is kind of baffling.

Can you rise or lower the antenna any? Can you try the ANT-751 on the mount? The VHF signal is not reaching the VHF element on the antenna.

I could lower it but not raise it. It is at the very top of the mount. I thought about the VHF but NBC is VHF as well and it is not quite as strong as PBS is it?

I also just noticed that I can tune directly to it. It is registering a signal (but no picture), but fluctuates rapidly. My other signals are steady (if they change they may go from 67 to 68 every few minutes). When I tuned directly to PBS it bounced from 3 to 15 and would take larger jumps. For example: 3, 11, 3, 15, 4, 7, 15....Etc.

This is typical of multipath (reflected signal) & the only way to fix it is to move the antenna to where it can see a better quality signal. The ANT 751 is more directional & may be able to better combat the multipath, even mounted in the same spot. There are more VHF elements, so you have a better chance of grabbing more of a quality signal.

So out of curiosity, could a move up/down and left/right (compass direction) reduce or increase multipath? I am just wondering if I should spend my time moving the antenna up/down side to side on the current mount before physically relocating the antenna or trying a new one.