Antenna help needed in San Diego

[rm6p]

Help for someone new to over air broadcasts. I cannot chase the audio problem down on channel 8.1 KFMB.

I installed an RCA ANT751 at the peak of the house (about 15 ft off the ground). At 130 deg magnetic, I can receive all required channels with great pictures but have a serious audio problem with channel 8.1 KFMB and a slightly less problem with KSWB 69.1. According to the TV, signal strength is very strong at between 70-80 for channel 8.1. The sound cuts in and out so much you cannot watch that channel. I have tried all points between 130 deg through 230 deg with no difference. I added an Antennacraft 10G201 pre amplifier with FM trap with no difference. I tried and returned a Channel Master CM-2016 with and without the pre-amp with no improvement. The RG6U coax is temporarily run directly from the antenna through the patio door to the TV in one piece. TV is a Sharp LC-52D64U with the latest firmware installed.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d46ae68b095da46

Must have channels
KFMB 8.1
KGTV 10.1
KPBS 15.1
KNSD 39.1
KUSI 51.1

Like to have channels
MeTV 8.2
Movies 13.3
KSWB 69.1

From standing on the roof it looks like I am behind a stand of trees a few miles away and in a slightly lower spot.

I would appreciate any suggestions including starting from scratch. I have to get these channels as solid as possible before cutting the cable.

Thank you

[ADTech]

I've yet to see an audio-only problem that was directly attributable to a fault or problem in the antenna system. As far is the incoming signal at the antenna is concerned, there is no distinction in the digital system between audio, video, or any other component (except the pilot carrier), it's all just data packets that have to be reassembled in the tuner section of the receiver.

If you think it's the antenna, move it several yards and try again. Note that channels 8 and 10 come from La Jolla, the rest to your southeast. Many folks need separate antenna elements pointing in different directions to pull off reception in your area.

If you have another TV set, give it a try to see if it behaves differently. There are differences between various tuners.

[rm6p]

Thank you..
I updated the firmware but never thought tuner itself might be the culprit. I will try a different TV tonight.

Thanks again for the direction.

[teleview]

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Digital tuners can develop - Digital Glitchs - that are not cleared out with simple channel scans.

To clear tuner do Double Rescan.

www.wchstv.com/DoubleReScanAlert.pdf

[teleview]

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Information about directional antennas and antenna aiming.

Directional antennas such as and not limited to the ANT751 , receive the best at the front of the antenna , the forward direction.

A little less at front angles to the antenna.

Less at back angles to the antenna.

Less at the back of the antenna.


Directional antennas receive the least amount directly on the sides of the antenna.

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Looking at your radar plot and channel list , I see the the weakest signal strength Tv stations are to the , north west at about 317 degree magnetic compass direction.

The Tv stations in the other directions are stronger signal strength.

If the antenna is aimed at about 340 degree magnetic compass direction , that will put the weakest Tv stations toward the front and front angle to the antenna , so as to receive more of the Tv stations to the , north west.

And will put the stronger Tv stations in the other directions at , front angle for the north east Tv stations and back angle for the south west Tv stations and back of antenna for the strong signal strength south east Tv stations.

And no Tv stations will be directly on the sides of the antenna.

This will receive the most amount of Tv stations with 1 antenna aimed in 1 direction.

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As always , the starting antenna aim direction is the--> starting antenna aim direction.
The antenna aim can be adjusted for best reception.

Most Digital Tv's have a Signal Strength Meter and some digital Tv's also have a Signal Quality Meter.

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As always , trees and tree leaves , plants and plant leaves , have a Negative Effect on broadcast Tv reception and so do buildings and other obstructions including your own roof and house

Some and not all Negative Effects are

Absorbing , Blocking , Reception

Multi-Path reflecting signals bouncing around.

The Best Practice is to install the antenna at a location that has the least amount to no amount of obstructions of any type or kind in the directions of reception including your own roof and house.

[ADTech]

Might be a good idea to make reception of the San Diego stations work well before exploring signals from Los Angeles, about 105 miles away. However, this TVFool plot indicates a fortunate location whereby it all might be pulled off.

[rm6p]

Thank you for all the information and suggestions. The double rescan did not work last night. Unfortunately my other TV's do not have digital tuners so I cannot check them. The only thing I can think of is to get a converter box and try the older TV again. Any other ideas I have missed?

Thanks again, I do appreciate the responses.

[teleview]

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Walmart has converter boxes.

www.channelmasterstore.com
Has converter boxes.

ePvision has converter boxes
www.epvision.com

However with , Black Friday , coming up , may as well buy a new flat screen Tv .

[rm6p]

Bought a converter box for the older TV. That comes in nice but, it is not HD. The HD flat screen's channel 8 audio problems are gone since a couple more double rescans. The audio clipping have moved to 69 FOX and think the antenna is just not robust enough. The antenna is aimed at 132 degrees magnetic which should pick up the broadcast without a problem. In addition to the RCA ANT751R, I added an Antennacraft 10G201 preamp. This antenna is coded for Yellow, Green, LT Green, and Red reception areas. I think i need one that includes Blue. Is there a known good antenna that should cover this requirement?

[GroundUrMast]

Your situation is similar to that of most folks in the San Diego market. A fairly simple two antenna system is going to give you a much better shot at reliable reception than any single antenna.

If you were starting from scratch, I'd suggest an Antennas Direct 42XG + Antennacraft Y5713 + Antennas Direct UHF/VHF antenna combiner.

In this case, you can substitute the existing ANT-751 for the Y5713 which should be pointed toward real CH-8 & CH-10, about 217° compass. The 42XG would point at about 158°. The 42XG would connect to the UHF input port of the antenna combiner, the ANT751 would connect to the VHF port.

The goal is to obtain a high quality signal from two separate directions at the same time, something a single antenna can't do very well.

[rm6p]

Is the Antennas Direct EU385CF-1S the combiner to use?

[rm6p]

I have to mount both antennas on the same mast. How far apart is the recommended distance between the antennas? Thank you

[GroundUrMast]

Is the Antennas Direct EU385CF-1S the combiner to use?

I own one and am very happy with it, yes.

[GroundUrMast]

I have to mount both antennas on the same mast. How far apart is the recommended distance between the antennas? Thank you

UHF on top... The VHF 3' to 4' below.

[rm6p]

Just ordered the antenna and combiner. Thank you very much, I appreciate all the help.

[rm6p]

I received the antenna and combiner today. The combiner has an Antennas Direct label and part number. The antenna box is marked Terrestrial Digital 42 Element Outdoor UHF with the 42XG catalog number. Any idea if this is correct? I expected to see an Antennas Direct label. The instruction sheet is marked AE42XG. Thank you

[GroundUrMast]

Terrestrial Digital changed their name to Antennas Direct some time back. The 42XG and 91XG designs were developed a few years ago, before the name change.

(ADTech, please straighten me out if I got any of that wrong, TIA)

[dmfdmf]

Looking at your radar plot and channel list , I see the the weakest signal strength Tv stations are to the , north west at about 317 degree magnetic compass direction. The Tv stations in the other directions are stronger signal strength. If the antenna is aimed at about 340 degree magnetic compass direction , that will put the weakest Tv stations toward the front and front angle to the antenna , so as to receive more of the Tv stations to the , north west. And will put the stronger Tv stations in the other directions at , front angle for the north east Tv stations and back angle for the south west Tv stations and back of antenna for the strong signal strength south east Tv stations. And no Tv stations will be directly on the sides of the antenna. This will receive the most amount of Tv stations with 1 antenna aimed in 1 direction.

I know I am late to the party but I have to agree with teleview here, how did this poster get sent down the two antenna path? Teleview's strategy is sound. If the aim at 340deg didn't work you could flip the antenna around and easily pickup the stations coming from 144deg. Must-have stations RCH8 and RCH10 are coming in so hot I think any combo antenna would pick these up regardless of where they are aimed. A combo antenna with a bit more power than the ANT751 would work as teleview describes without the trouble of a two antenna system.

Am I missing something here?

[GroundUrMast]

@dmfdmf, Thanks for the observation & question...

I think teleview's efforts to optimize the installation of the existing 751 were a sound and reasonable approach.

By post 9 of this thread, the OP had concluded they wanted to consider another antenna. Given that the two H-VHF signals (RCH-8 & RCH-10) are roughly 90° off the main beam, I fall back on my experience with multipath problems and tend toward a solution that I believe would offer a higher probability of reliable reception. They already own the 751, so rather than tossing it aside, I offered a solution that is similar to that used by may other San Diego viewers. (I believe that a larger, more directional combo antenna would further reduce the chances of reliable reception from the side.)

As I look at the signals available from the LA direction, the distance makes me fearful of variable atmospheric conditions producing a form of multipath interference. Also, many of the distant signals are flagged with co-channel adjacent channel warnings. As a result, I chose to focus my attention on the local signals from the San Diego market. (If in the same situation, I'd opt to build a separate LA receiving system, using a big DX antenna or combination.)

Part of my thinking process includes the idea that I don't want to recommend a solution that 'almost' gets the job done... nor do I want to waste the OP's money... Again, it's a judgement call, and it's rare that there is only one workable solution.

Best regards

[ADTech]

Terrestrial Digital changed their name to Antennas Direct some time back. The 42XG and 91XG designs were developed a few years ago, before the name change.

(ADTech, please straighten me out if I got any of that wrong, TIA)

You're correct. The boss found that too many people not only couldn't pronounce "Terrestrial", they couldn't spell it which caused a huge problem trying to get them to go to the new company's website.

The company's name has always been "Antennas Direct, Inc". "Terrestrial Digital" was the brand name of the products back then. I've been here more than five years and TD was already gone by then except in pre-printed inserts and such. We still have slow-moving inventory on hand with the old name on it.

We haven't manufactured any 42XGs since I've been here. Inventory is probably down to a dozen or two and they'll be discontinued when inventory is depleted, same as a few other models that have already been discontinued.

[dmfdmf]

Part of my thinking process includes the idea that I don't want to recommend a solution that 'almost' gets the job done... nor do I want to waste the OP's money... Again, it's a judgement call, and it's rare that there is only one workable solution.

Thanks for the explanation! That makes more sense now. Sometimes it hard to make a good recommendation when someone has already purchased an antenna. And of course, the TV Fool report is only a guide and the real test is at the tuner.

[rm6p]

First of a lll I would like to thank everyone for helping me cut the cord over a year ago. I used the 42XG aimed to 133 deg magnetic and the RCA ANT-751 aimed to 217 deg magnetic with the EU385CF-1s combiner. There is about 4 ft of separation between the antennas with the 42XG on top at about 25 ft above the ground on my roof. Channels on the RCA are rock solid as are most on the 42XG. On ocassion channel 30 audio gets choppy and the picture will tile. Channel 19 always has slightly choppy audio. While on the roof I notice there is a ridge between me and the station antennas. Is there maybe another antenna that has been developed in the past year that could pull in those stations a bit stronger? Or, would it be prudent to maybe add a 5 ft mast extension and see how that goes?

[Tower Guy]

would it be prudent to maybe add a 5 ft mast extension and see how that goes?
You can try the 43XG both higher and lower. Antennas with more gain than the 43XG are the 91XG and DB8e.

[signmastr]

Has Antennas Directs name changed? Home Depot thinks so...

http://www.homedepot.com/p/ClearStream-50-to-70-Mile-UE-MX91-Extreme-Range-Unidirectional-UHF-Outdoor-Antenna-91XG/205501723?cm_mmc=Shopping|G|Base|PLA|D27E|Electrical&gclid=CPnIk-_ZqMYCFU-Tfgod7mwAkA&gclsrc=aw.ds

[ADTech]

Has Antennas Directs name changed? Home Depot thinks so...

http://www.homedepot.com/p/ClearStream-50-to-70-Mile-UE-MX91-Extreme-Range-Unidirectional-UHF-Outdoor-Antenna-91XG/205501723?cm_mmc=Shopping|G|Base|PLA|D27E|Electrical&gclid=CPnIk-_ZqMYCFU-Tfgod7mwAkA&gclsrc=aw.ds

No, the company's name hasn't changed.

The distributor who supplies our products to HD screwed up all the listings, company name, product names, model numbers, SKUs, etc. We've known about it for months but they haven't gotten around to fixing it and there's nothing we can do about it.