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Old 26-Feb-2014, 6:26 PM   #1
adyoon
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Outdoor Antenna

Hi

This is the signal report from the site.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...5b942c1a1fe995

If I buy a outdoor antenna, can i at least get the channels on the red?
If so, what brand or types of outdoor antenna I should buy?
Any recommendation is welcomed
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Old 26-Feb-2014, 6:51 PM   #2
GroundUrMast
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I'd use the combination of an Antennas Direct 91XG + Antennacraft Y10713 + RCA TVPRAMP1R.

I'd mount outdoors, and use a 5' tripod with 10' mast. The 91XG would be at the top, pointed toward 138 (compass) and the Y10713 would mount 3' to 4' below the top, pointing at about 175 (compass).
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Old 26-Feb-2014, 7:15 PM   #3
adyoon
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Thank you for a quick reply!

Are those all roof top antenna supply? Do you know anyone in our area to do that kind of job? It's San Diego.
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Old 27-Feb-2014, 4:05 AM   #4
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The Tv reception at your location are Very Weak Signal Strength for the groups of Digital Broadcast Tv Stations/Channels to the , South , South East.

And even weaker signal strength of the Digital Broadcast Tv Stations/Channels to the North West.

For reception of the a little stronger Tv stations to the , South , South East.

Above the Peak of the Roof install a , Antennas Direct , DB8e , UHF channels 14 thru 51 , antenna aimed at about 138 degree magnetic compass direction.

And install a , http://www.antennacraft.net , Y10-7-13 , VHF high band channels 7 thru 13 , antenna aimed at about 175 degree magnetic compass direction.

---------------------

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

Use a Real and Actual magnetic compass to aim antenna.

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Here are some above the roof antenna mounts.

http://www.ronard.com/909911.html.
Use the , ronard(911) , 5 foot tripod antenna mount.

http://www.ronard.com/34424560.html.
Use the , ronard(4560) , eave antenna mount.

http://www.ronard.com/ychim.html.
Measure around the chimney and use a , ronard(2212) , ronard(2218) , ronard(2224) .

Buy the ronard antenna mounts at , http://www.ronard.com , or , http://www.amazon.com.

--------------------

Install a , http://www.antennacraft.com.

10G221 preamplifier.

Connect the DB8e , UHF antenna to the UHF connection of the preamplifier.

Connect the Y10-7-13 , VHF antenna to the VHF connection of the preamplifier.

-------------------

For 1 Tv connected use No splitter.

For 2 Tv's connected use a , Holland Electronics , HFS-2D , 2 way splitter.

For 3 Tv's connected use a , Holland Electronics , HFS-3D , 3 way splitter.

But the , HFS-2D and HFS-3D , splitters at , http://www.hollandelectronics.com , or , http://www.amazon.com.

-------------------

Here are some places to buy antennas and etc. .

http://www.antennacraft.net.

http://www.amazon.com.

http://www.hollandelectronics.com.

-------------------

As always , trees and tree leaves , plants and plant leaves , have a Negative Effect on Broadcast Tv Reception and so do buildings and other obstructions including your own roof and building.

Some and not all Negative Effects are.

Absorbing and Blocking Reception.

Multi-Path Reflecting Tv Signals Bouncing All Around.

The Best Practice for Reliable Reception is to install antennas at a location that has the least amount to no amount of obstructions of any type or kind in the directions of reception including your own roof and building.

The directions of reception at your location are , South , South East and North West.

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The Tv's Must Channel Scan for the , OTA=Over The Air , ATSC-Digital Broadcast Tv Stations/Channels , often named the ~ Antenna Channels ~ ATSC Channels , DTV Channels ~ Air Channels ~ in the Tv Setup Menu because the Tv transmissions travel through the Air from the transmitting antenna to the receiving antenna.

Some Digital Tuners will Automatic channel scan for cable tv channels.

DO NOT channel scan for cable tv channels.

Go in to the Tv Setup Menu and select , ATSC-Antenna Digital Broadcast Tv Stations/Channels.

Channel scan for the ATSC-Digital Broadcast Tv Channels.

----------------

You can Test reception of the North West group of Tv stations , aim both antennas at about 316 degree magnetic compass direction.

And Rescan for channels.
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Old 21-Jun-2017, 7:20 PM   #5
adyoon
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updated antenna

Hi

It's been a while and I have not installed an antenna yet.
I found a person to install so please give me any recommendation on antenna.
I am sure there is a better one out there compare to 3 years ago.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e6a449bcb394f1
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Old 22-Jun-2017, 12:53 AM   #6
JoeAZ
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Need more information on your immediate area. How close are trees
to the south/southwest and to the northwest? Are there any buildings
blocking reception from those directions??? Your budget???
What kind of elevation for the antenna can you live with???

There are actually far fewer good antennas now as compared
to three or more years ago......

Last edited by JoeAZ; 22-Jun-2017 at 12:55 AM.
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Old 23-Jun-2017, 2:18 PM   #7
rickbb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adyoon View Post
Hi

It's been a while and I have not installed an antenna yet.
I found a person to install so please give me any recommendation on antenna.
I am sure there is a better one out there compare to 3 years ago.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e6a449bcb394f1
Actually no, the antennas recommended are still some of the best out there.

Broadcasting technology is over a hundred years old and not much new in receiving has been produced. Unless major advancements in transmitting is developed receiving antenna design is likely stuck with minor developments.

Given that the world seems it rather pay a cable or sat company for something they could be getting free over the air, no money or effort will be spent on some new way to transmit.
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Old 23-Jun-2017, 7:05 PM   #8
rabbit73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adyoon View Post
Hi

It's been a while and I have not installed an antenna yet.
I found a person to install so please give me any recommendation on antenna.
I am sure there is a better one out there compare to 3 years ago.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e6a449bcb394f1
Well, since you asked, but nobody has directly answered:

An MCM 30-2476 aimed at 175 degrees magnetic for CBS and ABC.
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/produc...-2476-/30-2476

and an Antennas Direct DB8E with both panels aimed at 138 degrees magnetic for Fox, PBS, and NBC.

Combine the two antennas with a UVSJ UHF/VHF combiner:
https://www.antennasdirect.com/store...Combiners.html

The output should go to an Antennas Direct Juice preamplifier.

A less expensive but less reliable alternative would be an RCA TVPRAMP1R preamp with the input switch set to separate, which will combine the two antennas because it has separate UHF and VHF inputs.

How well this will work will depend upon where the antennas will be mounted and if there are any objects in the signal path that will block the signals.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 23-Jun-2017 at 7:14 PM.
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Old 12-Jul-2017, 12:41 AM   #9
adyoon
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Antenna selection

Thank you so much for your info!

What about ones that you can buy from amazon? some people recommended me to purchase 360 degree rotate antenna something like this

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...A2P9FGXXZW8Z05

you would not recommend something like this?
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Old 12-Jul-2017, 12:50 AM   #10
adyoon
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I am sure there are lots of tress since the tower is about 25+ miles away.
I am looking for simple antenna to install on the roof because the installation cost will be higher if I need to combine together.
I'd like to spend less than $200 for the antenna.
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Old 12-Jul-2017, 3:10 PM   #11
rickbb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adyoon View Post
Thank you so much for your info!

What about ones that you can buy from amazon? some people recommended me to purchase 360 degree rotate antenna something like this

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...A2P9FGXXZW8Z05

you would not recommend something like this?
Read the reviews. Several people complain that it rusts and shorts out in a few weeks. Not what an outdoor antenna should be doing. Check the return policy, if you return it you have to wait until they receive it and verify that it's bad before you get an exchange or your money back.

Also I find it hard to believe that a Yagi style antenna that is only 12 inches wide and 17 inches long will receive much at all, let alone from 150 miles at 36 dBs of gain that is claimed in the ad. Most proven, good Yagi antennas are huge, 10 to 12 feet long and 6 feet wide.

Maybe it works great and will do what you want, but to me looks like a waste of $50, I'd stay away from it.
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Old 12-Jul-2017, 6:16 PM   #12
JoeAZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adyoon View Post
Thank you so much for your info!

What about ones that you can buy from amazon? some people recommended me to purchase 360 degree rotate antenna something like this

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...A2P9FGXXZW8Z05

you would not recommend something like this?
I've personally replaced at least 50 antennas like the one you
mention above. They do not work well, if at all. The plastic
cracks and melts in our hot summer sun. The rotor motor
usually fails after a few weeks..... Need I say more?????????
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Old 12-Jul-2017, 6:23 PM   #13
adyoon
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Thanks Rickbb!

So you also recommend me to purchase what rabbit73 recommended?
My only worry is that my installation guy might charge more for multiple antenna install.
According to him, he has seen that signal was strong enough to pick up even from Los angels which is about 100 miles north.
Do you guys know any single antenna that can cover this long range?
As you know, my area is really bad to pick up the signal so that's why they were pushing for 360 rotate ones.
However I agree that $50 cheap antenna could be last long with even with preamplified.

Thanks
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Old 12-Jul-2017, 9:40 PM   #14
rickbb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adyoon View Post
Thanks Rickbb!

So you also recommend me to purchase what rabbit73 recommended?
My only worry is that my installation guy might charge more for multiple antenna install.
According to him, he has seen that signal was strong enough to pick up even from Los angels which is about 100 miles north.
You can never go wrong following rabbit's advise.

Signal strength is only important at the actual location that you will be mounting the antenna. General statements like that from your installer can cause lots of trouble raising your expectations then he won't be able to deliver. And he'll still charge you.

I get good reception, 62 channels, at my house. Almost always watchable, weather can affect the further ones and ones behind some trees. Less than a mile from my house are 2 locations that I've been trying to help and they get less than 10 channels. Why, they have tree issues and one is down in a bottom next to a creek. The signal is the same, but being blocked by trees, and small hills.

The signal can generally be great and you still may not get anything due to exactly where you mount the antenna.

I get up on the roof with a laptop and USB tuner, short cable and the antenna on a hand held pole and move around looking for the sweet spot. I've seen spots on my roof lose half the channels and only be 15 feet from where it is now.

Don't mount them and then try to get a signal. Trial and error to find the best spot and then mount it there. Your installer may not want to do that, but honestly it's how I would do it.
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Old 12-Jul-2017, 10:46 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickbb View Post
I've seen spots on my roof lose half the channels and only be 15 feet from where it is now.
Very true.
Quote:
Your installer may not want to do that, but honestly it's how I would do it.
Good advice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by adyoon View Post
According to him, he has seen that signal was strong enough to pick up even from Los angels which is about 100 miles north.
That CAN happen during a Tropospheic Propagation event, but not all the time because of the curvature of the earth which will block the signals. That has nothing to do with the reliability of local signals.
Quote:
My only worry is that my installation guy might charge more for multiple antenna install.
Has your installer given you a guarantee of good reception, or is he just going to put the antenna where he wants it without any consideration of reliable reception?

You need two antennas, a VHF antenna for KFMB and KGTV at 175 degrees magnetic, and one for UHF for KSWB, KPBS, and KNSD at 138 degrees magnetic.

If you want to go cheap, the MCM 30-2476 for VHF, the Solid Signal HDB91X for UHF, and the RCA TVPRAMP1R preamp.

I suggested the Antennas Direct DB8E because it has more gain at the low end of UHF than the 91XG or HDB91X where channels will be moving after repack. KNSD will be moving to channel 17 in a few years; you could buy another antenna then if necessary.



Quote:
If I buy a outdoor antenna, can i at least get the channels on the red?
You have a good chance of getting the red ones down to KNSD if there is nothing in the signal path to block them.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 12-Jul-2017 at 11:48 PM.
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Old 12-Jul-2017, 11:34 PM   #16
adyoon
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Thank you so much for your advise! Rabbit73 and Rickbb.

Has anyone used or heard about below antennas?
Who makes a determination on this antenna rank?

http://www.fabathome.org/best-outdoor-antenna/
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Old 13-Jul-2017, 12:03 AM   #17
rabbit73
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Quote:
Has anyone used or heard about below antennas?
I have heard about them and used a few of them.
Quote:
Who makes a determination on this antenna rank?
The guy who wrote the article, but his name is not given.

Did you see this disclosure at the bottom of the page

Quote:
AMAZON DISCLOSURE:

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
I can go through the list when I have more time and give you my comments if you are interested.
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Old 13-Jul-2017, 1:39 AM   #18
adyoon
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Your input will be really appreciated allthough I am going to take your advise.
I will need this review info in case of my installer calls for lot more money for multi antenna installation.

Thanks Rabbit73
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Old 13-Jul-2017, 4:06 AM   #19
rabbit73
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My comments on Antenna Ranking by FabatHome

The 10 Best Outdoor Antennas of 2017
http://www.fabathome.org/best-outdoor-antenna/

1. RCA Compact Outdoor Yagi HDTV Antenna with 60 Mile Range
That is the RCA ANT 751R. It has been a good antenna for UHF and VHF-High in strong signal areas, but they have changed the design and it isn't as good. It has fewer elements and is called the ANT 7511, but some sellers are still using the 751R photo in their description.

It is sold in a shorter box than the original, but it still has a photo of the 751R on the box; very confusing.



The tendency these days is for most, but not all, antenna manufacturers to find a way to make it cheaper, not better.

Rca ant751 thread:

http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=16264

2. 1byone 80 Miles Digital Amplified Outdoor / Roof HDTV Antenna Extremely High Performance for UHF Band
OK for UHF, but has less gain than the DB8e, 91XG, and HDB91X. Doesn't have VHF-High which you need.

3. Winegard FlatWave Air Amplified Digital Outdoor HDTV Antenna (4K Ready, High-VHF, UHF, Black)
Very little gain on UHF, and even less on VHF-High. The amp tries to compensate for the poor antenna element, but doesn't quite make it. Not suitable for you.

4. 8 Element Bowtie Indoor/Outdoor HDTV Antenna – 70 Mile Range
This is the Antennas Direct DB8E. Excellent gain on UHF, especially on the low end. Not much gain on VHF-High because the elements are too small for that, and the baluns don't pass the VHF signals very well.

5. 1byone 85 Miles Digital Amplified Outdoor Antenna with VHF and UHF Band Extremely High Performance
Medium gain LPDA UHF section with only a folded dipole for VHF-High. Adding an amp doesn't make up for not enough gain in the antenna elements.

6. Xtreme Signal Long Range Yagi Style VHF/UHF HDTV Antenna
This is the Solid Signal HDB91X clone of the Antennas Direct 91XG with good gain at the high end of UHF, but less gain at the low end, which will become an important consideration after repack when UHF will be only from 14 to 36. Poor gain on VHF. As with the 91XG, the tilt feature will allow you to tilt the front end of the antenna up if you live behind a hill in the signal path.

7. Channel Master CM-4228HD High VHF, UHF and HDTV Antenna
This CM antenna has good gain on UHF, but probably not as much as the DB8E. I doubt that it has a lot of gain on VHF-High, and I don't have much faith in their stated gain figures. They state:
Quote:
This antenna by Channel Master is a phased with 8 bays. It’s multi-directional, which means you don’t need to point it to the broadcasting tower to receive a better signal. It will receive signals from 180 degrees range without any issues. This is one of the qualities that are hard to find in other products.
False marketing; it is very directional.

8. GE 33692 Attic Mount HD Antenna Long Range for VHF / UHF Channels – 60 Mile Range
They say: "Best 4K Outdoor Antenna." That's false; it's too fragile to be an outdoor antenna. I have the 34692 version that works well indoors on the ground floor in a strong signal area. It has medium UHF gain and an excellent reflector to reject multipath, but only a folded dipole for VHF-High. I have added an RCA TVPRAMP1R preamp to help with channel 13. GE makes an outdoor version called the GE 29884 Pro Outdoor/Attic Antenna.

9. Mediasonic HOMEWORX HDTV Outdoor Antenna – 80 Miles Range Support UHF / VHF (HW-27UV)
Good, but not excellent gain on UHF; fair gain on VHF-High. As with all UHF/VHF combo antennas, it is not suitable for you because your UHF and VHF channels are in different directions.

10. ClearStream 2V Indoor/Outdoor HDTV Antenna with Mount – 60 Mile Range
This is the Antennas Direct C2V. It has medium gain for UHF with a wide beamwidth of 70 degrees, but only a simple dipole for VHF-High. It's a very nice antenna for medium-strong signal areas outdoors or indoors, but it doesn't have enough gain for your weak signals.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg kram1avsRCAANT751boxes_2.jpg (139.7 KB, 1183 views)
__________________
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Last edited by rabbit73; 13-Jul-2017 at 11:56 AM.
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Old 13-Jul-2017, 12:33 PM   #20
rabbit73
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You are behind a hill for KNSD:

Attached Images
File Type: jpg adyoonTVFp2KNSD.JPG (100.3 KB, 1180 views)
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