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Old 19-Aug-2020, 12:55 PM   #1
eclipsme
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Is this possible?

Signal Analysis: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...903876af1d9513

I am in Vero Beach and would like to get networks, if possible.

I've got ABC in West Palm (easy), but is it possible to get NBC and CBS from either West Palm Beach (to the south) or from Orlando (to the North)?

I have read about the Noise Margin (NM) on TVFool - "Red (outdoor) corresponds to channels with an NM of about -5 or higher." All of these station are in the red.

Using conservative numbers (I think) a high gain antenna like the Wineguard HD7698P should add over 10db to the signal, so CBS in Palm Beach (13), which as an NM of 3.5, plus the 10db antenna gain, less a high of maybe 3db loss from the amplifier (VHF) yields an NM of 10.5db, which seems like an ample margin for error...

The other networks have higher NMs.

So, if my thinking is correct, would the Wineguard be the best choice or what would you suggest? What am I missing?

Thanks for looking!
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Old 19-Aug-2020, 6:04 PM   #2
rabbit73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eclipsme View Post
Signal Analysis: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...903876af1d9513

I am in Vero Beach and would like to get networks, if possible.

I've got ABC in West Palm (easy), but is it possible to get NBC and CBS from either West Palm Beach (to the south) or from Orlando (to the North)?
Hello, eclipsme; welcome to the forum.

Thank you for the signal report.



Here is a report from rabbitears.info, based on my estimate of your location, which should have a more accurate list of channels because TVFool is using a database with errors:
https://www.rabbitears.info/searchma...tudy_id=138161

The Signal Margin is similar to Noise Margin.



The Winegard HD7698P combo antenna would give you a good chance with those weak signals. The new instructions for the antenna are very confusing. It is important to open the VHF elements in the correct order so that they alternate.

I suggest WKMG for CBS and WESH for NBC; ABC should be strong enough to come in from the rear. NBC will be the most difficult.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg eclipsmeTVFreport2.jpg (194.3 KB, 112 views)
File Type: jpg eclipsmeTVFreportRE2.jpg (294.9 KB, 117 views)
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Last edited by rabbit73; 19-Aug-2020 at 6:33 PM.
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Old 19-Aug-2020, 6:33 PM   #3
eclipsme
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Thanks, Rabbit!

So with this list, how far down would you figure I might be able to get?

Both WPEC (CBS) and WPTV (NBC) from West Palm Beach are listed as bad on this report, so I am guessing they will be no goes?

Maybe WKMG (CBS Orlando)? But this would, I assume, require a 2nd antenna to point in that direction.

Suggestions? Thanks!
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Old 19-Aug-2020, 11:01 PM   #4
rabbit73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eclipsme View Post
Thanks, Rabbit!

So with this list, how far down would you figure I might be able to get?

Both WPEC (CBS) and WPTV (NBC) from West Palm Beach are listed as bad on this report, so I am guessing they will be no goes?

Maybe WKMG (CBS Orlando)? But this would, I assume, require a 2nd antenna to point in that direction.

Suggestions? Thanks!
I redid the report image to include WPEC CBS at the bottom. It's even weaker than WESH and WPTV for NBC.



If a channel is listed as Bad on the rabbitears report, it doesn't mean impossible, it just means difficult.

In theory, it is possible to receive a signal as weak as -15 dB NM on a TVFool report if you have an antenna with a gain of 18 dB:



The signal reports are just computer simulations, known to be less accurate for weak signals.

Why don't you try both directions when you put the antenna up. I favored aiming the antenna north so that the strong WPBF coming from the south would be at the rear. If you aim south, WPBF would overload the preamp and tuner.

There are many solutions, that is just one possible solution.
Attached Images
File Type: png NMdiagDXrev2.png (55.1 KB, 109 views)
File Type: jpg eclipsmeTVFreportRE3.jpg (297.7 KB, 108 views)
__________________
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Last edited by rabbit73; 19-Aug-2020 at 11:13 PM.
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Old 20-Aug-2020, 12:46 AM   #5
rabbit73
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Old instructions with the correct image of the Winegard HD7698P antenna:
https://manuals.solidsignal.com/HD76...structions.pdf

New instructions with the incorrect image of the Winegard HD7698P antenna:
https://d38mfwkkxtsm2m.cloudfront.ne...ts/1450292.pdf

An alternative could be separate VHF and UHF antennas combined with a UVSJ (UHF/VHF Separator/Joiner).

A suitable VHF-High antenna would be the Newark Stellar Labs 30-2476:
https://www.newark.com/stellar-labs/...nna/dp/71Y5462

A possible UHF antenna could be the Channel Master 4228HD.

The UVSJ should be the Antennas Direct EU385CF-1S
https://store.antennasdirect.com/UHF...Combiners.html

I prefer it over the Stellar Labs 33-2230
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Winegard HD7698P Old Instructions Image_1.jpg (88.2 KB, 114 views)
File Type: jpg Winegard HD7698P New Instructions Image_1.jpg (90.5 KB, 107 views)
__________________
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Last edited by rabbit73; 20-Aug-2020 at 1:51 AM.
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Old 20-Aug-2020, 2:04 AM   #6
rabbit73
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You are on the fringe of coverage for WKMG:

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.p...1&d=1597889062



The curvature of the earth blocks the direct signal. The signal is rated Tropo which means reception is affected by atmospheric changes.



You can see similar images for your other channels by clicking on the map icon for coverage and clicking on Transmitter Distance in your rabbitears report.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg eclipsmeTVFcovWKMG.JPG (177.8 KB, 106 views)
File Type: jpg eclipsmeTVFp3WKMG.JPG (84.4 KB, 106 views)
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 20-Aug-2020 at 2:25 AM.
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Old 20-Aug-2020, 10:51 AM   #7
eclipsme
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You have been extremely helpful and have confirmed most of what I have been thinking.

I picked up a used DB8e for $30 so will use that to test the conditions. Unfortunately, it is really bad at VHF, but the antennas you mention are the ones I have been looking at.

So thank you for the confirmation! I feel much better about proceeding now.

All the best.
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