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Old 7-Mar-2015, 6:24 AM   #1
2CfreeTV
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How do I get my CS2V Antenna set right?

ClearStream™ 2V Long Range UHF/VHF Antenna

I hooked it up an so far it seems to be going. With some minor tweaks it should be perfect.
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...f1f07f5dca1c7d

With my last channel scan it found the following channels.

6-1 CBS / WRGB
6-2 ThisTV
10-1 ABC / WTEN
10-2 WTEN Weather
10-3 Lving Well Network
13-1 NBC / WNYT
(13-1 double)
13-2 ME-TV
(13-2 double)
13-3 WNYT Weather
(13-3 double)
14-1 Youtoo America **pixeled**
14-2 PBJ **pixeled**
14-3 TUFF TV **pixeled**
14-4 France 24 **pixeled**
14-5 REV'N **pixeled**
14-6 LATV **pixeled**
14-7 Retro TV **pixeled**
14-8 Guide Channel ? **pixeled**
15 ? **analog**
15-1 ?
17-1 PBS / WMHT
17-2 Create
17-3 PBS World
23-1 FOX
23-2 OTB
45-1 CW
45-2 GritTV
45-3 CBS / WRGB
51-1 MyTV 4 / WNYA
51-2 Antenna TV
55-1 ION
55-2 Qubo
55-3 ION Life
55-4 Shop
55-5 QVC
55-6 HSN

I'm happy with the current selection I'm getting. Channels 14-1 through 14-8 are coming in pixeled. What would be the best way(s) to get them to come in clear?

Channels 15 & 15-1 both come in fuzzy or pixeled. From what I can tell they are two different channels. Before I worry about trying to get a better signal for them, what are they?

Thx,
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Old 7-Mar-2015, 11:22 AM   #2
ADTech
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You didn't indicate where the antenna is mounted, where it's aimed towards, what your distribution system consists of, and it appears your TVFool plot may or may not be accurately located due to an inaccurate Google look-up of your address.

Quote:
Channels 14-1 through 14-8 are coming in pixeled. What would be the best way(s) to get them to come in clear?
Your odds of reliable reception of that station are very poor unless you go to a substantially upgraded system. It's a lower power (15 k) station with a directional transmitting antenna located 40 miles away that only sends 9.5 kW in your direction. Unfortunately, there's another mountain peak right in front of Windham Mtn where their transmitter is located which effectively shadows their signal from the direction of Troy. If you click on the call letters for WYBN-LD on your chart, a new tab should open that illustrates the path profile for that station. You'll have to decide how much additional effort (expense) is justified in an attempt to improve reception of that station.

Quote:
Channels 15 & 15-1 both come in fuzzy or pixeled. From what I can tell they are two different channels. Before I worry about trying to get a better signal for them, what are they?
Wikipedia articles: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WEPT-CD http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMGTV

You'd have to aim the antenna down the river valley to improve that station's reception, a move that will likely have an adverse effect on the reception of other stations.

This is in Tower Guy's back yard. Perhaps he can fill in some details.
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Last edited by ADTech; 7-Mar-2015 at 11:25 AM.
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Old 7-Mar-2015, 8:19 PM   #3
2CfreeTV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADTech View Post
You didn't indicate where the antenna is mounted, where it's aimed towards, what your distribution system consists of, and it appears your TVFool plot may or may not be accurately located due to an inaccurate Google look-up of your address.
It's tabled mounted indoors facing out a South side window. It's currently at a Southeastern angle. I'd say pointed in the general direction of HVCC.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ADTech View Post
Your odds of reliable reception of that station are very poor unless you go to a substantially upgraded system. It's a lower power (15 k) station with a directional transmitting antenna located 40 miles away that only sends 9.5 kW in your direction. Unfortunately, there's another mountain peak right in front of Windham Mtn where their transmitter is located which effectively shadows their signal from the direction of Troy. If you click on the call letters for WYBN-LD on your chart, a new tab should open that illustrates the path profile for that station. You'll have to decide how much additional effort (expense) is justified in an attempt to improve reception of that station.
I'd really like to pull in Retro TV, Tuff TV & Rev'N would be nice to. But I can live without them if I have to.

Could you explain more about the path profile, and how to read it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ADTech View Post
Wikipedia articles: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WEPT-CD http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMGTV

You'd have to aim the antenna down the river valley to improve that station's reception, a move that will likely have an adverse effect on the reception of other stations.
This is in Tower Guy's back yard. Perhaps he can fill in some details.
From what I can tell 15 & 15-1 are the same channel with a slight broadcast delay. WEPT-CA / WEPT-CD / AMGTV whatever it's called. What is it's core programming? The AMGTV site stinks and is no help.


Overall what would be the best way to receive all 34 channels? My antenna wants to receive them, but how? Would a signal booster help?

When I did the first couple of scans after I hooked it up it found them all right away. That channel line up would be prefect, allowing me to cut that cable cord.



**Update** With a chat with reps at AntennasDirect & Crutchfield it seems I may need an Amplifier.

Would any of these work for me? Which one would be my best choice? Any others cheaper I could try? What about RadioShack? Do they have any?

https://www.antennasdirect.com/store...AMPLIFIER.html
ClearStream™ In-Line Amplifier
$19.99

https://www.antennasdirect.com/store/JUICE.html
JUICE Amplifier System

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_6593410...0.html?tp=6341
Channel Master 3410
Single-output RF distribution amplifier
Attached Images
File Type: png Stations I Want to Receive.PNG (36.3 KB, 358 views)

Last edited by 2CfreeTV; 7-Mar-2015 at 10:06 PM. Reason: possible gear needed?
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Old 7-Mar-2015, 11:50 PM   #4
rabbit73
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Quote:
Could you explain more about the path profile, and how to read it?
It looks like this when you click on the WYBN-LD callsign in your tvfool report:



Quote:
In very rough terms, the colors can be broken down as follows (not related to Antennaweb):

- White is extremely strong. Beware of signal overload on amps.
- Red-yellow-green are all quite strong. You can expect reasonable coverage with an indoor antenna.
- Cyan is where it's advisable to move the antenna up to the second floor or attic.
- Blue is where it's probably necessary to install a good antenna on the roof.
- Purple is quite weak and you really have to work at it for any chance of reception.
White is also used for no signal at all after purple. The transmitter is at the left end of the profile; your location is at the right end.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg WYBN-LD Profile.JPG (72.3 KB, 1239 views)
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Last edited by rabbit73; 8-Mar-2015 at 12:31 AM.
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Old 8-Mar-2015, 6:35 AM   #5
2CfreeTV
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That sorta makes sense.
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From what I can determine, I need an amplifier.

Are any of these good for my indoors mounted antenna?

ClearStream™ In-Line Amplifier
JUICE Amplifier System
Channel Master 3410 Single-output RF distribution amplifier

Which should I go with? Are there any others I should consider?
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Old 8-Mar-2015, 12:15 PM   #6
ADTech
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You don't need an amplifier, they won't magically correct other errors or oversights. You need a larger antenna outside, up in the air with a clear signal path, and correctly aimed to have a better shot at picking up those weak or off-axis signals. Currently, you have a medium/small antenna indoors which is incorrectly aimed.
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Last edited by ADTech; 9-Mar-2015 at 5:29 PM.
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Old 9-Mar-2015, 8:44 AM   #7
2CfreeTV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADTech View Post
You don't need an amplifier, they won;t magically correct other errors or oversights. You need a larger antenna outside, up in the air with a clear signal path, and correctly aimed to have a better shot at picking up those weak or off-axis signals. Currently, you have a medium/small antenna indoors which is incorrectly aimed.
Larger antenna outside isn't happening.

How should I aim it? I'm limited to only south facing windows.
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Old 9-Mar-2015, 11:34 AM   #8
ADTech
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You indicated earlier that the antenna was aimed SE. It needs to be aimed SW.

If your location and your circumstances prevent your taking the actions needed to improve the reception of signals which might be receivable if those actions were to be taken, then you won't be expected to receive those signals.
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Old 9-Mar-2015, 5:07 PM   #9
2CfreeTV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADTech View Post
You indicated earlier that the antenna was aimed SE. It needs to be aimed SW.
Yes I understand that but the problem channels WYBN-LD begin clearing the other way.

With my antenna pointed in it's current location I have trouble with the following channels. I've done rescans many times.

6-1 CBS / WRGB **Antenna doesn't find it, but did on first scan**
6-2 ThisTV **Antenna doesn't find it, but did on first scan**
6-3 WRGB Weather **Antenna doesn't find it, but did on first scan**
14-1 Youtoo America **pixeled**
14-2 PBJ **pixeled**
14-3 TUFF TV **pixeled**
14-4 France 24 **pixeled**
14-5 REV'N **pixeled**
14-6 Retro TV **pixeled**

Pixeled channels are not much worse than this. They stutter, but audio and video does come in.


My only window(s) I can use are facing South. I'm not putting the antenna in my only West facing window. FYI it's in the bathroom. lol

What are my options? Amplifier, preamp, new coax, etc?

My antenna can find the channels, it needs help holding them.
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Old 9-Mar-2015, 5:29 PM   #10
ADTech
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There are no magic beans that will allow you to get the golden egg.

The formula for reliable reception is fundamentally very simple: The right antenna installed in the right place will allow you to receive the stations that are expected. Given your constraints, I have no expectation that you will get reliable reception of either of those low power stations.

WRGB is a separate case. It operates on channel 6, down in a part of the spectrum that a) requires a long antenna, about 6' wide, for effective reception and b) is severely polluted with indoor electrical noise plus FM radio signals.

If you started getting WYBN-LD with the antenna pointed in the "wrong" direction, then your direct signal path is probably blocked and you're catching a reflected signal off something nearby. Such reception cannot be predicted, all you can do is experiment and see what you can get.

If you want to try an amp, run down to your nearest Walmart store and pick up an RCA indoor amp (1450-something) for less than $20 and give it a try. If it helps, great. If it doesn't help. return it for a refund.
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Last edited by ADTech; 9-Mar-2015 at 5:32 PM.
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Old 10-Mar-2015, 6:50 AM   #11
2CfreeTV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADTech View Post
If you want to try an amp, run down to your nearest Walmart store and pick up an RCA indoor amp (1450-something) for less than $20 and give it a try. If it helps, great. If it doesn't help. return it for a refund.
I've been looking around for the amplifiers. I came across these.
What would be the best to worst of the lot? Should I avoid anyone
of them? How about the price ranges? What would be a fair price for
each one?

Alphaline™ Super Low Noise Amplifier SEA-100
Winegard LNA-100 Boost Ultra Low Noise TV Antenna Amplifier
Winegard LNA100S Boost Amplifier
1Byone HDTV Antenna Booster/Amplifier
ClearStream™ In-Line Amplifier
Digiwave ANT1005 is Digital HDTV Off Air Amplifier
Solid Signal 20dB HDTV Antenna Amp w/ Pure Signal Technology(PURE20)
RCA AMP1450R
RCA AMP1450F

Is there any major differences between any of these?
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Old 10-Mar-2015, 11:51 AM   #12
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The two basic specs are noise figure and gain. Noise figure is the degradation in signal-to-noise ratio in dB due to amplification. Typically the lower the noise figure, the moe expensive the electronics are. Gain is the increase in amplitude of a given signal input in dB. Solid Signal has an article you can read - http://www.solidsignal.com/p/?p=3561

You can compare the specs and share them with us. Perhaps buy a few of the ones that best fit your needs and give them a try. Or if you just want to try an amplifier without more effort, ADTech gave you an excellent suggestion for testing the utility (or futility) of adding an amplifier.

Last edited by timgr; 10-Mar-2015 at 11:54 AM.
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Old 10-Mar-2015, 1:28 PM   #13
ADTech
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Quote:
Solid Signal has an article you can read - http://www.solidsignal.com/p/?p=3561
Unfortunately, the amplifier list that article is pretty much useless (the commentary is okay). They're also all pre-amps, not indoor amps which is what our OP is looking for.

All of the models except four are discontinued and two of those listings are either incorrect (PA18) or incomplete (RCA).
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Last edited by ADTech; 10-Mar-2015 at 2:19 PM.
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Old 10-Mar-2015, 3:02 PM   #14
Tower Guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2CfreeTV View Post
I've been looking around for the amplifiers.
What would be the best to worst of the lot? Should I avoid anyone
of them?

Is there any major differences between any of these?
All of those amplifiers will be overloaded by WRPI on 91.5. The WRPI tower is less than a mile from you. Overload will make reception worse, not better. Most FM traps are not effective on the low end of the FM band. Antennas Direct sells an FM trap that works at 91.5, but it won't pass channel 6.

Your problem is that you have an antenna that's not designed for WRGB, in a poor location, aimed the wrong direction, and perhaps unrealistic expectations.
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Old 14-Mar-2015, 7:44 AM   #15
2CfreeTV
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Ok so I was able to pickup the following at my local Walmart.

RCA Digital Signal Amplifier
RCA RG-6 Digital Coax
GE Quad Shield RG6 Coax x2


I was able to get Channel 6-1, 6-2 But 6-3 isn't showing. No problem with that, I'm not a fan of that weather crew anyways.

As for Channel 14, my results were so/so.

14-1 Youtoo America
14-2 PBJ
14-3 TUFF TV
14-4 France 24
*14-7 Retro TV

On a scale of 1 to 5 Before the changes they were a 2, but now a 3.
A slight improvement, but it's a battle to align my antenna just right to keep them all.


I'll have a Winegard LNA-100 Amplifier soon. Would that offer me better results than I already got?



If not than I'll miss not having Retro TV. It's been at least two years since I last seen it.

Last edited by 2CfreeTV; 14-Mar-2015 at 2:47 PM. Reason: updated results
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Old 14-Mar-2015, 11:40 AM   #16
ADTech
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I anticipate you will loose reception with the LNA100 due to tuner overload. There are reasons I didn't suggest that one including its high gain and ineffective FM trap.
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Old 16-Mar-2015, 6:58 AM   #17
2CfreeTV
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Originally Posted by ADTech View Post
I anticipate you will loose reception with the LNA100 due to tuner overload. There are reasons I didn't suggest that one including its high gain and ineffective FM trap.
Well got a chance to try the Winegard LNA-100 Amplifier this weekend.

The results sucked. It didn't do nothing for ch6 & ch14. While it did manage to
mess up FOX 23-1.

So it looks like I'm sticking to the RCA Digital Signal Amplifier.

I'll just have to keep making antenna adjustments to get the results I want. (Both Ch6 & 14) If not, something that will be good enough. (Ch6)
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Old 21-Mar-2015, 7:48 AM   #18
2CfreeTV
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Well I decided to be happy with this OTA channel lineup.

6-1 CBS / WRGB
6-2 ThisTV
8-1 Youtoo America
10-1 ABC / WTEN
10-2 WTEN Weather
10-3 Lving Well Network
13-1 NBC / WNYT
13-2 ME-TV
13-3 WNYT Weather
15 AMGTV
15-1 AMGTV
17-1 PBS / WMHT
17-2 Create
17-3 PBS World
23-1 FOX
23-2 OTB
45-1 CW
45-2 GritTV
45-3 CBS / WRGB
51-1 MyTV 4 / WNYA
51-2 Antenna TV
55-1 ION
55-2 Qubo
55-3 ION Life
55-4 Shop
55-5 QVC
55-6 HSN


PBJ, TUFF TV, Retro TV would have been a great addition. But I can't pull it in quite well enough where I live. Maybe if/when I ever move, or if they switch affiliates.
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