Long Island, NY OTA

[MTVhike]

I live in Stony Brook, NY, on the north shore of central Long Island.
After a few months of playing around, I mounted a Winegard HD9095 UHF and a Winegard YA713 Highband VHF on a 20 foot pole on my back deck. A CM7777 antenna is also used. When this system is pointed toward the ESB, I get the following performance:
CBS 2 or 3 (RF 33 from NY or CT or RF 22 from LI) never anything
NBC 4 from NYC - sometimes OK, frequently nothing; NBC 30/35 from CT, better (if I turn the antenna N, then it gets very good, but I am listing only performance with the antennas pointed SW)
FOX 5 from NYC - sometimes useable, but not usually
WOR 9 from NYC - rarely useable
(I know these are all UHF stations)
ABC from NYC (RF 7) 100%, even with the 7777 removed
PIX from NYC (RF 11) 100%, even with the 7777 removed
WNET from NYC (RF 13) 100%, even with the 7777 removed
WLIW 21 from LI (RF 21) 100% with the 7777, 60% without
Channel 25 from ESB - same as WLIW
Channels 24, 49 from ct - useable with the 7777, nothing without
WNJN from NJ - sometimes excellent with the 7777, nothing without

My questrions: I can raise the antenna to my roof, about feet 15 higher (but not until spring); should I do so? (If I do, I won't be able to manually rotate the mast to get better CT or eastern LI better).
The antennas are pointing to trees about 50 feet away - how will that affect the signal when they leaf out? These trees are about 100 feet tall!
Should I recable the system so the 7777 is not used for VHF - it doesn't appear to be necessary, but how do I combine the signals with minimum loss, and I would then have two cables.

I have about 100 feet of RG6. I also have a cheap RS distribution amp, which doesn't appear to be either good or bad, except that it works as a splitter. I did these tests without it.

Another thing, usually the main WNET and WLIW channels appear as 13.3 or 21.3. They has the same content as 13.1 and 21.1 and, if I type in 13.3 or 21.3, I get the correct .3 subchannel.

Thanks, here is my TVfool image. http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...27ee61872d8da7
Mike

[mtownsend]

Hello and welcome!

I'm afraid that your tvfool report link did not come through. If you cut and paste the URL for your report, that will work better (the URL will look something like "http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx").

[MTVhike]

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...27ee61872d8da7

[Dave Loudin]

Mike,
I noticed that you used just a zip code to fix your location. You can explore the benefit of raising your antenna by first fixing your location more accurately. Use the start maps option to begin, and enter as much of your address as you like. The next page will have a Google map with a marker for the receive location. Zoom in on the map as needed and drag the pointer to your house. Notice that reception precdictions will update in the space below. Also notice that there is a place to enter antenna height. Each time you enter a new number there, the predictions will refresh, allowing you to judge the impact of the change.

Of course, this analysis will only tell you how terrain will impact reception.

[MTVhike]

Here is my TVFool radar plot using the mapping function:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...27eecc33d21792

[mtownsend]

Originally Posted by MTVhike

The antennas are pointing to trees about 50 feet away - how will that affect the signal when they leaf out? These trees are about 100 feet tall!

Trees do have an effect on signal quality and strength. Signal blockage is the worst when they have full leaves and are wet (i.e., soaked from rain). The amount of signal loss depends on too many variables (tree species, water content, spacing between trees, length of path through trees, angle of approach, etc.), so predicting the severity of the signal loss is near impossible. All you can do is wait and see how much your signal changes.

Should I recable the system so the 7777 is not used for VHF - it doesn't appear to be necessary

As long as the amp is not overloading, I see no reason to bypass it. It's unlikely that your VHF stations are overloading the amp, so I'd just leave it as is.

how do I combine the signals with minimum loss, and I would then have two cables.

Just for future reference, the best way to combine separate UHF and VHF signals onto one cable is to use a diplexor like the UVSJ. It can combine or split different frequency bands with very little loss (~0.5 dB) compared to an ordinary 2-way splitter/combiner (~3.5 dB loss).

I have about 100 feet of RG6. I also have a cheap RS distribution amp, which doesn't appear to be either good or bad, except that it works as a splitter.

Since the CM 7777 has very high gain, it's already more than enough to compensate for your 100 feet of RG6. That is why you see no difference with/without the distribution amp. If you had another 100 feet of coax AFTER the distribution amp, then it might have actually made a difference.

The main thing to look out for when daisy chaining amps is to make sure the first amp doesn't overload the second amp.

In your case, the second amp in not necessary, and I'd recommend leaving it out until there's an actual need for it. The fewer active components you have, the less things there are the break over time.

[MTVhike]

Thanks, mtownsend, for your help after I got my location straightened out. I understand the issue with the trees, but I don't know how to avoid them without a 100' high tower and I think they cost a few thousand dollars.

I still need answers to my station-specific questions, especially for CBS. As I understand it, WCBS at azimuth 254-true is on RF33/v-2.1. It is 13th on the list. WCBS is also listed 8th on RF22 with no virtual channel indicated. That is at the same azimuth and distance as WLIW 21, which is in Garden City, LI. Finally, WFSB in CT is on RF33/v-3.1 at azimuth 17. Why can't I get anything on either RF33 or 22? I get many stations considerably weaker than either of the WCBS ones, including WNJN PBS 51 (but not WPXN ION 31). Turning the antenna makes no difference.

Thanks again

[mtownsend]

Originally Posted by MTVhike

I understand the issue with the trees, but I don't know how to avoid them without a 100' high tower and I think they cost a few thousand dollars.

If it's too difficult to avoid the trees, then your only option is to aim through them as best you can. Some signal will pass through trees, so as long as your antenna has enough gain to compensate, there's a good chance you'll still have a decent signal to watch. Many people pick up channels through trees all year round without any issues. Hopefully, you're not one of those rare cases where the trees pose a serious problem.

As I understand it, WCBS at azimuth 254-true is on RF33/v-2.1. It is 13th on the list. WCBS is also listed 8th on RF22 with no virtual channel indicated. That is at the same azimuth and distance as WLIW 21, which is in Garden City, LI. Finally, WFSB in CT is on RF33/v-3.1 at azimuth 17. Why can't I get anything on either RF33 or 22?

WCBS's main transmitter is on channel 33. They have been granted a construction permit to build another transmitter on channel 22, but I don't think it's on the air just yet (at least I have not heard confirmation that is has gone live yet).

You might be having difficulty with channel 33 because there is another transmitter also on channel 33 (WFSB, another CBS affiliate in Hartford). If you're getting too much signal from WFSB, your tuner won't be able to lock on to WCBS. This has been a known issue in the areas where these two channel 33 transmitters overlap. This is one of the main reasons they want to build a fill-in transmitter on channel 22.

If/When the channel 22 transmitter comes online, your WCBS problem should be fixed. The construction permit was granted about 6 months ago, so hopefully they are getting close to having it turned on.

For now, if you feel inclined to experiment, it might be possible to play with your antenna's aim to maximize the WCBS signal while minimizing the WFSB signal. This isn't always straightforward because both signals can reflect off objects like buildings, trees, and hills. However, you might get lucky and find just the right spot that lets your tuner lock on the WCBS correctly.

[Dave Loudin]

Originally Posted by MTVhike

Thanks, mtownsend, for your help after I got my location straightened out. I understand the issue with the trees, but I don't know how to avoid them without a 100' high tower and I think they cost a few thousand dollars.

I noticed that your follow-up radar plot was still based on an antenna height of 10 feet. That's probably a good measure for trying to aim under the trees. How does this prediction compare with using 20 feet, which is your current installation?

[signal]

Hello MTVhike, Did you ever raise your antenna height? I,am in Port Jefferson L.I. N.Y. My reception is quite good. I have antennas direct 91XG,and YA 713 combined and preamplified. I also split this signal and distribute it with a channel master amplifier model 3414 the signal goes to 3 televisions and FM stero. I recieve WCBS-2 , WNBC-4 FOX-5 WABC-7 MY-9 WPIX-11 WNET-13 WLIW-21 WNYC-25 ION-31 NJN-50 also many CONN. stations. My antenna height is approx. 33FT HIGH! I have very few drop outs. I also use a antenna rotator

[Tigerbangs]

Yours sounds like a case of a bad 300 ohm to 75 ohm matching transformer on the UHF antenna: Winegard seems to have gotten a batch of bad ones, and the big increase in signal quality between the amplifier and non-amplified signals on the LI PBS stations makes me very suspicious.

Also, if you are seeing WFSB from Hartford, remember that they are on the same RF channel as WCBS in NYC, channel 33. It may very well be that you have something not indicated in your TVFool.com report blocking the NYC stations, but my first line of attack would be to try replacing the matching device on the HD9095P and see if that helps you, then raise your antenna height.

[beastinbigmaze]

Hi, I have similar problems you describe: I can't get channels 2, 4, 5 or 9. I have a winegard uhf/vhf 7697p. Other channels, like 7, 11, 13 come in great. I live in Huntington with some hills and tall trees. Hopefully you could share how you solved your problem.

Steve