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Old 26-Nov-2012, 1:24 AM   #1
Vert
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Planning setup - need for VFH antenna and which UHF antenna

Hi,

First I think this forum and site is fantastic and is just the resource needed to help those getting back on OTA signals instead of cable or satellite.

My tvfool report.

Given the height of the building I’m in I very much prefer for this to be mounted in the attic, even though there will be some signal loss and I’m hoping it isn’t going to be too bad. Estimated height to attic is 40’.

I happen to be able to with a friends Antennas Direct ClearStream4 in the location just below where I hope to mount it in the attic and noted the following on the channels:

When pointing the antenna to the 168 degree mark

VHF
WMUR (9.x) hardly ever comes in

UHF
WGBH (2.x) comes in very reliably
WBZ (4.x) hardly comes in
WCVB (5.x) has a very strong signal and always comes in clear
WHDH (7.x) hardly ever comes in
WBPX comes in very reliably
WFXT hardly comes in

Please keep in mind I am rigging this in less than ideal conditions during these tests. The only VHF channel I am interested in is WMUR and all of the UHF channels are coming out of the same direction, ~168 degrees.

My layout is to hook up two tv’s and the run would be:

Antenna -> Splitter (2 way) -> 1) bedroom 2) basement -> splitter (2 way) -> Living room

Come to think of it rather than an additional splitter I could use a coupler

My questions are
1) Should is use a direction specific UHF antenna such as a Antennas Direct DB8 or one with a wider field like the DB4E?
2) Since I sometimes get in the VHF channel with the ClearChannel4 is there some hope that one of the mentioned antennas (or another) could pick up on that signal without a specific VHF antenna? If not, is there a recommendation to which one should be used in this scenario?
3) Is a pre-amp needed because of the splitter involved?

If I missed any info that’s needed just let me know. Thanks!

Last edited by Vert; 26-Nov-2012 at 4:30 PM. Reason: Updated report url
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Old 26-Nov-2012, 7:52 AM   #2
GroundUrMast
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The notice, "WARNING: Address was only resolved to street level and might not be that close to your actual location. For more accurate results, try entering a specific address or coordinates." in the heading of your TVFR prompts me to ask that you use the Interactive TV Maps to locate your site, then generate a TV Fool Report using the button available from that page. Be sure to set the AGL appropriately. That will give us confidence that your predicted signal levels are as accurate as possible.

At this point, I'm not certain an attic install is going to be able to satisfy your needs. Hopefully the more accurate TVFR will have a more favorable prediction.
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Old 26-Nov-2012, 4:31 PM   #3
Vert
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Thanks for the tip, GroundUrMast. Here is the updated report.

I also updated the link in the opening post.
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Old 27-Nov-2012, 9:31 AM   #4
teleview
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Attics Are Not a reception friendly environment and Never Will be a reception friendly environment.

Yes you can start with a ANT751 in the attic.

Aim the antenna at about 184 degree magnetic compass direction.

If there are reception issues with the Current Plus Pending Applications Digital Tv stations/channels in the Green and Yellow reception zones of the tvfool radar plot and channel list.

Then.

Above the roof install a ANT751 antenna aimed at 184 degree magnetic compass direction.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

For 1 Tv connected use no splitter. No preamplifier.

For 2 Tv's connected use a common simple 2 way splitter. No preamplifier.
__

Do Not chain splitters one after the other , one splitter connected to another splitter connected to another splitter , connected to another splitter.

Every time a split takes place the signal strength is reduced , at the end of the chain of splitters there is little signal strength.

The correct way is for 1 Tv connected use no splitter.

For 2 Tv's connected use a 2 way splitter.

For 3 Tv's connected use a 3 way splitter.

Coax runs go out from each output of the splitter to a Tv location.
__

The ANT751 antenna , solidsignal , or , amazon , comes with a J type antenna mount.

Here are some other antenna mounts , http://www.ronard.com/909911.html , http://www.ronard.com/34424560.html , http://www.ronard.com/ychim.html , http://www.ronard.com.

Buy the ronard antenna mounts at solidsignal by typing the word ronard in the solidsignal search box.

Here are some places to buy antennas and etc. , http://www.solidsignal.com , http://www.amazon.com.

As always , trees and tree leaves do a real fine job of reducing and blocking Tv reception and so do buildings and other obstructions including your own house.

It is best to install a antenna at a location that has the least amount to no amount of obstructions of any type or kind in the directions of reception including your own house.

At your location that is , west , south west , south , north east.
___________

The Tv/s must channel scan for Digital Broadcast Tv Channels , sometimes known as the 'Air Channels' or ' Antenna Channels' in the Tv setup menu because the Tv transmissions travel through the air from the transmitting antenna to the receiving antenna.

DO NOT channel scan for cable tv channels.

Last edited by teleview; 28-Nov-2012 at 7:38 AM.
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Old 27-Nov-2012, 6:18 PM   #5
GroundUrMast
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If you are getting marginal results with a CS4 now, I'm wondering if your are blocked by trees or buildings.

I'm not sure I understand were the CS4 is/was located when you tested reception. Was it in the attic, in the building or outside. What obstructions were present?

TIA
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Old 28-Nov-2012, 6:01 AM   #6
Vert
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Thanks for the help! I'll try to clarify and give a more detailed description.

I live in a townhouse and that has a garage level on the first floor, living area/kitchen on second and bedrooms on the third floor then with an attic above that. With the direction of the 185 or so degree of the antenna that direction coincidentally lined up with being able to use my pre-existing cable rg6 in the bedroom, and allowed me to face the antenna out of a window (minus a curtain) with some of it pointing towards a wall. I was able to receive a signal which, when conditions were good, was good but not reliable as I would like. How the antenna was rigged in place during this test it was tilted slightly upward. In the living room, directly one level below, I was able to receive only the stronger signals. Outside of the building there are some trees but with the height of the building I'm in I'm thinking (hoping) a higher elevation in the attic will help me clear them more and obtain a better signal.

With GroundUrMast's comment on the CS4, are you insinuating I should be able to pick up all channels with that? Generally speaking. If so perhaps I'm encountering more interference than I realize.
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Old 28-Nov-2012, 7:29 AM   #7
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Yes, if unobstructed by buildings and vegetation, the CS4 has enough gain to expect reception of signals as weak as WYDN.

Trying in the attic would be the next step if you still have the CS4 to test with.

The ANT-751 suggested by @teleview has less gain than the CS4 but covers the UHF and High-VHF bands. If the CS4 can't get the job done, the ANT-751 would be expected to do even less in the UHF range. (But the suggestion is for above roof mounting, in the clear... a sound suggestion.)

To give credit to @teleview again, mounting above the roof is almost always going to produce better results than attic mounting.
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Old 29-Nov-2012, 2:39 AM   #8
Vert
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Thanks for the input! I'll see what can be done about mounting it outside but I don't think that will work out.

I've seen in other posts you commonly recommend the Antennas Direct DB4E. Do you think that would be a better solution for the UHF channels if mounted in the attic? I'm ok with getting a seperate VHF antenna if needed but trying to keep in mind loss of signal with additional junction points.

Thanks again for the help, and I'm going to see if I can try the CS4 in the attic over the next few days.
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Old 29-Nov-2012, 6:14 AM   #9
GroundUrMast
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Testing reception in the attic with the CS4 will tell us a lot about your needs.

The DB4e lends it self to situations where one needs gain and a wide forward beam. That tends to describe a fair percentage of the situations most people face.
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