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Old 19-Jun-2012, 6:54 AM   #1
BikingBrian
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91XG Attic or Roof Mount for 92397

I seem to be one of the lucky few in Wrightwood, CA 92397 who have a favorable TV Fool report, here it is:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...134977ba17f9d9

I'm only interested in getting that handful of LOS stations. I have a Antennas Direct 91XG coming in the mail tomorrow. Should I even try attic mounting, or will it have to go on the roof?

Also, the stations are broadcasting from 4500' elevation, while I am at 5800'. Do I need to tilt the 91XG down slightly?
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Old 19-Jun-2012, 11:35 AM   #2
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If your house has a wood structure and a standard shingle roof the attic will work, however outside roof installation is always better. The vertical pattern on your antenna will allow for 0 degrees beam tilt. If you want to be "dead on" you could go 3 to 5 degrees negative.
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Old 19-Jun-2012, 6:23 PM   #3
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Let us know how it works out.

At last report, the Victorville translators were all still analog except for WCET's K47CC. The only other digital station that serves Victorville/Barstow is KHIZ.

If you can make a list of the current fare that is received and the channel information (real channel, original channel, etc), it would be great.
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Old 21-Jun-2012, 1:11 AM   #4
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ALL questions and answers about Broadcast Tv Reception and More.

For reception of more Tv stations and channels install a Winegard HD7084P All channel antenna with a Winegard AP8700 preamp above the roof aimed at about 230 degree magnetic compass.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

This is a Separate antenna and antenna system from the 91XG that is aimed north/east at bout 34 degree magnetic compass.

The 2 antenna systems Will Not be connected togeather on to one coax.

The 2 Separate antenna systems coaxes will go to the location of the Tv and will be connected to a remote control A/B antenna switch. http://www.radioshack.com , # 15-1968 or http://www.mcmelectronics.com , # 32-4425.

Last edited by Electron; 21-Jun-2012 at 1:25 AM.
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Old 21-Jun-2012, 7:50 AM   #5
BikingBrian
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For reception of more Tv stations and channels install a Winegard HD7084P All channel antenna with a Winegard AP8700 preamp above the roof aimed at about 230 degree magnetic compass.
That's an interesting idea. I can live without the UHF channels at 230 degrees, so what about just a high band VHF antenna pointed in that direction to pick up the four channels in that range? Any antenna recommendations for that? Could I then use a VHF/UHF combiner, run one coax, and get by without the preamp and A/B switch?

By the way, I'll only be using two TVs on this setup. Actually, this is a vacation home, so we could even get by with only one TV.

Last edited by BikingBrian; 21-Jun-2012 at 8:13 AM.
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Old 21-Jun-2012, 6:19 PM   #6
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The numbers on your TV Fool report suggest you have hope of receiving some of the VHF channels from Mt. Wilson. The only way to know for sure is to try. An Antennacraft Y10713 would be my choice.

Yes, a UVSJ would allow you to combine the signals from the UHF antenna into a common down-lead.
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Old 21-Jun-2012, 8:39 PM   #7
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ALL questions and answers about Broadcast Tv reception and More.

The Y10713 is a antenna that is desinged to receive VHF high band channels 7 thru 13. Not VHF low band channels 2 thru 6 or UHF band channels 14 thru 51.

The Mount Wilson area Tv transmitters at about 230 degree magnetic compass that are receivable at -> Your <- location are in a process of changing the channels that are being transmitted.

The end result will most likely be that there will be VHF low band channels 2 thru 6 , VHF high band channels 7 thru 13 , UHF band channels 14 thru 51.

The way to cover what ever channel is changed to and not changed to is to install a HD7084P antenna that receives All the channels , VHF low band channels 2 thru 6 , VHF high band 7 thru 13 , UHF band channels.
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Old 21-Jun-2012, 9:31 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electron View Post
The Y10713 is a antenna that is desinged to receive VHF high band channels 7 thru 13. Not VHF low band channels 2 thru 6 or UHF band channels 14 thru 51.

The Mount Wilson area Tv transmitters at about 230 degree magnetic compass that are receivable at -> Your <- location are in a process of changing the channels that are being transmitted.
Darn, I already put in an order for the Y10713. But the price was right, so I'll plan to install it, and if channel assignments change, I'll worry about that later. I plan to have a tripod mount on the roof which I can fold over for easier access to the antennas on the mast.

Thanks for the all the info. I will report back with how everything works out.
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Old 21-Jun-2012, 11:26 PM   #9
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Per your TVFR, none of the UHF signals from Mt. Wilson have any reasonable chance of reliable reception. Given your question,
Quote:
so what about just a high band VHF antenna pointed in that direction to pick up the four channels in that range?
, and initial statement,
Quote:
I'm only interested in getting that handful of LOS stations.
, the High-VHF is a reasonable approach.

The HD7084 would work well as a 2 through 13 VHF and would very likely add the signal from K39GY, a TBN (Christian programing) low power station. The UHF capability of the 7084 would go to waste if you connect it to a UVSJ.
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Old 22-Jun-2012, 12:02 AM   #10
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ALL questions and answers about Broadcast Tv Reception and More.

The UHF reception part of the HD7084P antenna would not go to waste.

The stations KNBC UHF channel 36 NBC and KVEA UHF channel 39 TELE. , would most likely be received by the HD7084P antenna.

The UHF part of the HD7084P antenna would be there when a Tv station/s change to UHF from VHF.

I recommened a 2 separate antenna system to cover as many channels as possible.
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Old 22-Jun-2012, 12:04 AM   #11
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Just wanted to jump back in for a moment and say thanks for all the suggestions. Pointing an antenna towards Mt. Wilson at 230 degrees was something I had simply ruled out, since all the local residents said it was essentially impossible. Although I recently got my ham radio license and learned how VHF and UHF waves propagate differently, it took the second antenna suggestion for the idea to go after the Mt. Wilson VHF stations to "sink in".

I should add that this is primarily a vacation home which is often used by friends and family. So for that reason I prefer the UVSJ option and not something "complex" (well, it's not really complex, but to my non-technical family it is) like an A/B switch.
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Old 22-Jun-2012, 5:09 AM   #12
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I had forgotten to change the default antenna height of 10 feet to my planned height of 25 feet, here is the updated report.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...1349573d2440bd

To my surprise, the four high VHF stations in red showing a LOWER NM (db) with the increased antenna height.

Also of interest is the pending application for KNBC on Channel 36 on Table Mountain just a few miles away. If that comes to fruition, I'll have to change everything. I hope the other networks follow suit.
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Old 22-Jun-2012, 7:55 PM   #13
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Not a suprise for me.

The bending of the signals across the mountains.

The signals are still receivable at the little lower signal strength.

Change the antenna height up and down and see what happens to the signal strength.

There is also a phenomena known as - ground wave - the Tv signals are stronger at about 0 to 5 feet above ground.

Back to the HD7084P issue.

At locations where there is a high rate of channel realocations I recommend a All Channel antenna that way all the channels are coverd.

California is a state where a high rate of channel realocations are taking place , and many Tv stations are batteling/fighting over who get to use what channel. And where a Tv transmitter can be built.

Last edited by Electron; 22-Jun-2012 at 7:59 PM.
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Old 22-Jun-2012, 9:50 PM   #14
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California is a state where a high rate of channel realocations are taking place , and many Tv stations are batteling/fighting over who get to use what channel. And where a Tv transmitter can be built.
Ah, yes, that Table Mountain site is at 7400' elevation and is line of sight to most of the high desert. Double the coverage area at a fraction of the power output.
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Old 23-Jun-2012, 8:16 AM   #15
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Made it up to the mountain cabin tonight, and the antenna install will happen this weekend. Here's a photo of where I'll install (deleted), sorry for the horrible nighttime quality, but it should be good enough for my additional question.

The satellite dish is going to come down, and the tripod is going on the roof peak as close to the foreground as I can. That is the best spot to get around the pine trees and have LOS from the UHF antenna to the signals from the Victorville translator at about 45 degrees. (Can't tell from the photo, so you'll have to take my word on that.)

I took the photo at about 240 degrees from where the tripod would be. So the VHF antenna for Mount Wilson would be pointed towards me. As you can see, there's a big pine tree trunk to the right. Am I far enough away from it, or would I have to move the tripod further along the roof peak? (That would be to the left and backwards in the photo). Though the problem with doing that is it may then put a pine tree in between the UHF antenna and the Victorville translator.

Last edited by BikingBrian; 1-Jul-2012 at 6:25 AM. Reason: Removed bad link to photo which no longer exists.
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Old 24-Jun-2012, 5:27 AM   #16
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Just wanted to relay some initial observations after getting the UHF antenna up. Although my location is "blue" in the TV Fool charts, in practice the challenge was finding a good spot which wasn't blocked by the tree trunks. Make that "the" good spot, there was only one.

Channel 47 (KCET) is digital, I get a "lock" on it, and it is crystal clear. The remaining channels are from the Victorville translator, with color and sound, but varying degrees of snow. Those include 21 (CBS), 25 (NBC), 27 (Fox), and 51 (MyTV).

Reception was about the same whether the antenna was mounted right on top of the tripod on the peak of my single story roof, up until a few feet above it. I'd lose everything raising the antenna higher than that. One of my own tree branches was in the way. That will be dealt with. ;D

Photos and a full report after I'm done with all the tweaks.
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Old 24-Jun-2012, 4:38 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BikingBrian View Post
...

Channel 47 (KCET) is digital, I get a "lock" on it, and it is crystal clear. The remaining channels are from the Victorville translator, with color and sound, but varying degrees of snow. Those include 21 (CBS), 25 (NBC), 27 (Fox), and 51 (MyTV).

...
Just to be clear, you receive all of your OTA programming from translators. You are receiving KCET's digital feeds from digital translator K47CC-RF47 out of Victorville. Each of your other received signals are broadcast by translators. However, they are broadcasting analog signals. This is why the signals have snow.
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Old 24-Jun-2012, 5:46 PM   #18
BikingBrian
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I forgot to connect the Channel Master 7777 preamp! In addition to the above, I now get analog 34 (don't know which one this is in the TV Fool report) and digital KHIZ (virtual 64, actual 44).

By the way, my CM7777 has only one input. The photos of others I've seen have optional separate VHF and UHF inputs, do they still make those? I'd rather get one of those since I plan on installing a separate VHF antenna.
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Old 25-Jun-2012, 6:09 PM   #19
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The two-input Channelmasters were discontinued over the winter. You'd have to luck upon a distributor or dealer with remaining stock to purchase one new.
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Old 25-Jun-2012, 7:58 PM   #20
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I recommend a UVSJ = UHF/VHF Separator/Joiner. Antennas Direct has a UVSJ in a weather protected housing.

And use the -> New <- Channel Master Preamp.

Last edited by Electron; 26-Jun-2012 at 11:31 PM.
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