TV Fool  

Go Back   TV Fool > Over The Air Services > Help With Reception

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 22-Nov-2014, 4:25 AM   #141
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 2,516
Quote:
Would those options not run into similar issues maybe with different objects or even the tree that ADTech spoke of. Just wondering your thoughts...
Probably not, because they would be using the same green lines as the eave mount, but just a little lower down on the rear of your house. Testing would tell you right away.



Just got another idea:

What would happen if you used the 5 ft mast section that you just bought to raise the C2V 5 ft higher on the satellite mount? No "ugly" tripod needed, but if it doesn't fit it wouldn't work.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Location 4-90 deg.JPG (102.5 KB, 1056 views)

Last edited by rabbit73; 22-Nov-2014 at 4:47 AM.
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-Nov-2014, 6:51 PM   #142
mulliganman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 147
My wife is wanting to know how much higher the mast would be sticking up above the roof if we go with the eaves mount. I wasn't sure so I thought I'd ask.
mulliganman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-Nov-2014, 7:35 PM   #143
ADTech
Antennas Direct Tech Supp
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,930
Short answer is "As high as it takes".

We are not able to stand on your rooftop and see what the precise distances and heights might be. The antenna will work best when it gets a clear and unobstructed view in the direction the signals are coming from.
__________________
Antennas Direct Tech Support

For support and recommendations regarding our products, please contact us directly at https://www.antennasdirect.com/customer-service.html

Sorry, I'm not a mod and cannot assist with your site registration.
ADTech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-Nov-2014, 12:16 AM   #144
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 2,516
Quote:
My wife is wanting to know how much higher the mast would be sticking up above the roof if we go with the eaves mount. I wasn't sure so I thought I'd ask.
Higher than what? If you mean higher than the roof itself, it would be something like the attachment. If you mean higher than its present location on the garage roof, then the C2V on the garage roof is about as high as the top part of the windows of the 2nd floor at the back of the house.

The eave mount itself at the back of the higher roof on the west side will not show from the street. Only the C2V antenna and the upper part of the mast will show.
Quote:
Short answer is "As high as it takes".

We are not able to stand on your rooftop and see what the precise distances and heights might be. The antenna will work best when it gets a clear and unobstructed view in the direction the signals are coming from.
It is a different case for the C2V antenna on the garage roof, because of the house next to you on the east side. You would, as ADTech says, need to raise it high enough for the signals to clear the peak of their roof, which might be too obvious and unattractive.

You don't have a signal clearence problem, as far as I can tell, with the eave mount on the back of the higher roof where the eave mount would be fastened. That point has an unobstructed view to the NE, which is why that would be the best location for the C2V.

If you mounted the C2V on a mast on the rear deck, then nothing would show from the street, and the reception at that location might be satisfactory, because it looks like that is also an unobstructed place. The antenna on the deck would become a conversation piece for "bragging rights" about free high quality TV pictures and no cable bill.

The 91XG for Fox is doing well on the garage roof, as proved by your attenuator test to measure the "fade margin." After studying the photos of your house, it looks like the 91XG is also about as high as the top of the upper floor windows at the back, so even if it were moved up to a slightly higher location, the improvement wouldn't be much, if any. That is why we said leave it where it is on the garage roof.

This might be of interest to you since you have a CM DVR+:
New Firmware update for DVR+ #114R
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/show...&postcount=826
Attached Images
File Type: jpg eave mount 2.jpg (39.8 KB, 394 views)

Last edited by rabbit73; 23-Nov-2014 at 1:00 AM.
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-Nov-2014, 1:20 AM   #145
mulliganman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 147
Higher than what? If you mean higher than the roof itself, it would be something like the attachment. If you mean higher than its present location on the garage roof, then the C2V on the garage roof is about as high as the top part of the windows of the 2nd floor at the back of the house.

The eave mount itself at the back of the higher roof on the west side will not show from the street. Only the C2V antenna and the upper part of the mast will show.



Yes she meant higher than the roof itself.

If you mounted the C2V on a mast on the rear deck, then nothing would show from the street, and the reception at that location might be satisfactory, because it looks like that is also an unobstructed place. The antenna on the deck would become a conversation piece for "bragging rights" about free high quality TV pictures and no cable bill.

Are you talking about using the 5 or 10 foot mast? I'm not quite sure how that would be mounted on the deck (and also figured other houses or objects would prevent the C2V from having an unobstructed view from there).

This might be of interest to you since you have a CM DVR+:
New Firmware update for DVR+ #114R
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/show...&postcount=826


I had seen that over at AVS and thought about connecting via Ethernet to get the update. I haven't yet. One of the primary reasons I switched to the Tivo is because of a whole home setup which Channel Master doesn't have right now (but keep saying in January they are going to reveal something). The Tivo route for a DVR setup also seems to simplify my antenna setup a bit as I am only sending signals to 1 TV. I think it would start to get complicated to send signals to 3 TV's which each had a DVR+ connected to them (accounting for 6 tuners to drive). I would probably have to add an amp somewhere if I did that don't you think?

Last edited by mulliganman; 23-Nov-2014 at 1:37 AM.
mulliganman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-Nov-2014, 1:55 AM   #146
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 2,516
Quote:
Yes she meant higher than the roof itself.
Thank you.
Quote:
Are you talking about using the 5 or 10 foot mast?
10 ft, thinking that it could be supported by the railing at the NW corner of the deck, but only after you make a test to see if that would really work.

The 10 ft mast is needed there for the greater height for the signals and so that the antenna would be above the head of anyone on the deck for safety.
Quote:
(and also figured other houses or objects would prevent the C2V from having an unobstructed view from there).
What houses or objects are you aware of? I see some in the satellite view, but they don't look too serious. A test setup would tell you if there were a problem. I think you are worrying too soon.



In the photo above Kevin is using a WG 7697P. If you want to read more about his tree problem:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/25-hdt...l#post17280909
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/25-hdt...l#post17283385
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/25-hdt...l#post17297708

It is true that the eave mount gives you the highest point. If the C2V there works well, your problem is solved. If the C2V works well only for the UHF signals, but there is still a problem with 10.1, then you will need to put a UHF/VHF-hi combo antenna, like the Winegard HD7694P, there.

If your test there doesn't work because of obstructions, then your only alternatives would be a tripod on the upper roof or a tower in the back yard. Both of them would be difficult to do.

If you then reach the point where you have no more options to improve the signals from the NE for the Roamio, then you are left with Plan B. That plan would be to demote the Roamio to a secondary role for recording only. The antenna coax downlead from the AC7 would be connected to a 4-way splitter that would feed the three TV tuners and the Roamio.
Quote:
I had seen that over at AVS and thought about connecting via Ethernet to get the update. I haven't yet. One of the primary reasons I switched to the Tivo is because of a whole home setup which Channel Master doesn't have right now (but keep saying in January they are going to reveal something). The Tivo route for a DVR setup also seems to simplify my antenna setup a bit as I am only sending signals to 1 TV. I think it would start to get complicated to send signals to 3 TV's which each had a DVR+ connected to them (accounting for 6 tuners to drive). I would probably have to add an amp somewhere if I did that don't you think?
I think you know a lot more about DVRs than I do.

Have to leave now; more later.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg kevm14 on roof.jpg (132.1 KB, 1642 views)

Last edited by rabbit73; 24-Nov-2014 at 12:07 AM.
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1-Dec-2014, 9:22 PM   #147
mulliganman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 147
An update: My spouse is still very reluctant/hesitant to try the eaves mount. To me, it seems the option to have the best chance of success. Since she is still reluctant at this point, I feel I should explore other options that don't involve moving the C2V in any way first. To that end, I mentioned I had another DVR in my possession, the DVR+ from Channel Master, so I have tried it in the same setup to see how it would do (since every tuner can be different). The only change was the addition of the Holland Splitter (in this setup I don't need the Moca connection and need signals going to all 3 of my television sets).

91XG>Winegard LNA>Tinlee AC7 combiner>Holland 3 way splitter

C2V> Tinlee AC7 combiner>Holland 3 way splitter

Initial results hadn't shown any trouble with 33-1 (or any of its subchannels) or 10-1. What was noticeably different was the signal strength on 49-1 (Fox) was in the fifties and could fluctuate down to 48 or so (where some pixelation/cutout would occur). That seemed to suggest to me that the signal I was sending to the Tivo Roamio was receiving some sort of amplification once it got to the unit.

In order to try and bump the signal back up (to eliminate the cutouts) for Fox 49-1 I made the following change (daisy chaining two amps):

91XG>Winegard LNA>Channel Master 3410> Tinlee AC7 combiner>Holland 3 way splitter

C2V> Tinlee AC7 combiner>Holland 3 way splitter

This caused 3-1 (and its subchannels to drop out). Because of the dropoff, I decided to add 6db worth of attenuation to the Fox signal to attempt to alleviate the overload. So, after that change the setup looked like this:

91XG>Winegard LNA>Channel Master 3410> 6db attenuator >Tinlee AC7 combiner>Holland 3 way splitter

C2V> Tinlee AC7 combiner>Holland 3 way splitter

I thought I had "fixed" the overload as for a while 3-1 and everything was back and in the 80's on the signal strength and 100% on the DVR+ signal quality meters.

But, back came the pixelation/cutouts on the 3-1 (and its subchannels). I was able to confirm that the cutouts are not relegated to the DVR+ only. The sole regular television set I happened to check for the same issues on was doing the same thing.

I am going to try to see what the 3-1 signal looks like when I take out the Channel Master 3410 and what it looks like leaving it if I up the attention to 9db or so.

Other than that, does anyone have any suggestions regarding adding the little "boost" Fox seems to need when in use with the Channel Master DVR+? Again, please keep in mind these are alternatives I am considering that don't involve the moving of any antennas in order to exhaust all options to appease the wife (if all we are left with is that option). I appreciate anyone who chooses to provide feedback.
mulliganman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-Jan-2015, 2:02 AM   #148
mulliganman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADTech View Post
Simply relocating the C2V from its current location is likely all you need to do. It "appears" that it's below the level of your neighbors home, but, only someone standing on the roof would be able to be certain. Your situation illustrates the pitfall of using an existing satellite mount without taking the TV antenna's different requirements into proper consideration.

If that existing dish mount has support "legs" for a larger 18x24 dish, it's sturdy enough to install an extension pipe into it an raises the C2V up. Depending on the specific mount, you might easily get 5-8' of additional elevation which might clear the neighbor's rooftop.

Barring that, simply moving the antenna to the rear edge of the garage roof, closer to your deck, may allow the C2V a relatively unobstructed field of view for a good distance towards Fordland. I'd even be inclined to try it on your deck if that gets you out from behind the neighboring house.

One thing I did notice when I zoomed out from your rooftop view is that your signal LOS passes right through what appears to be a big tree in the back yard of the home on the corner across the street. If your reception issues correlate with wind or rain, then that tree would likely explain the issues.

Of the antennas you named, I'd only consider the second one plus the HBU33 as candidates. If you're going to have to go bigger, no point in trying to be subtle about it.



That's because Voxx Intl doesn't seem interested in publishing any specs.
ADTech, I am revisiting this thread and this post because after some unexpected financial costs forced me to shelve this project for a while I am revisiting it. I am curious about your comment about my LOS from my Fordland signals passing through a large tree in the back yard. Is that LOS from where my C2V currently sits or are you saying it would still be in the LOS path if I move that antenna to the peak of the tallest point of the roof with an eaves mount?
mulliganman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-Jan-2015, 4:42 PM   #149
mulliganman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 147
Just posting an update: After a long wait to follow suggestions in this thread due primarily to an expensive unexpected car repair I was finally able to follow through yesterday.

I used this eaves mount: http://www.amazon.com/Winegard-SW-00...sin=B001DFTGUQ

and got my Antennas Direct C2V mounted to it at the suggested location. Also got the antennas grounded using I believe 10 gauge copper and a dual grounding block. So far, so good. I would like to thank rabbit and ADTech for all the feedback, suggestions, and time spent assisting me on this thread.

I felt it important to update because I wanted those two users especially to know how much I valued their time and effort in assisting me. Plus, I wanted them to know that I did follow through with the suggestions given even though quite a bit of time passed from the suggestions to the follow through and execution of the suggestions.

Last edited by mulliganman; 30-Jan-2015 at 6:01 PM. Reason: typo
mulliganman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-Jan-2015, 5:53 PM   #150
BigDaveyL
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by mulliganman View Post
Just posting an update: After a long wait to follow suggestions in this thread due primarily to an expensive unexpected car repair I was finally able to follow through yesterday.

I used this eaves mount: http://www.amazon.com/Winegard-SW-00...sin=B001DFTGUQ

and got my Antennas Direct C2V mounted to it at the suggested location. Also go the antennas grounded using I believe 10 gauge copper and a dual grounding block. So far, so good. I would like to thank rabbit and ADTech for all the feedback, suggestions, and time spent assisting me on this thread.

I felt it important to update because I wanted those two users especially to know how much I valued their time and effort in assisting me. Plus, I wanted them to know that I did follow through with the suggestions given even though quite a bit of time passed from the suggestions to the follow through and execution of the suggestions.

I even learned a few things reading this thread.
BigDaveyL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-Jan-2015, 6:01 PM   #151
mulliganman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaveyL View Post
I even learned a few things reading this thread.
Good to hear that!
mulliganman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6-Mar-2015, 10:45 PM   #152
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 2,516
Quote:
.....got my Antennas Direct C2V mounted to it at the suggested location. Also got the antennas grounded using I believe 10 gauge copper and a dual grounding block. So far, so good. I would like to thank rabbit and ADTech for all the feedback, suggestions, and time spent assisting me on this thread.

I felt it important to update because I wanted those two users especially to know how much I valued their time and effort in assisting me. Plus, I wanted them to know that I did follow through with the suggestions given even though quite a bit of time passed from the suggestions to the follow through and execution of the suggestions.
Thanks for the update with the good news. Glad to be able to help.

I was wondering, as usual, how it would work out.
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Go Back   TV Fool > Over The Air Services > Help With Reception


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT. The time now is 7:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © TV Fool, LLC