help with WSKG in Binghamton NY

binghamton · 1-Mar-2011, 8:10 PM

Hello Everybody,

Here is my setup:

Location
Antenna I'm attempting to use
25 feet of RG-6 is in place between the antenna and my HDTV receiver (a TiVo Premiere)

Background:

I am attempting to receive the four Binghamton stations (WBNG, WICZ, WIVT and WSKG) noted on the radar plot. They are all within six miles of my house and all transmit from the same hilltop.

My first attempt was to place that indoor antenna directly on my TV. Doing this I am able to receive WBNG (broadcast channel 7) and WSKG (broadcast channel 44) with meter readings of 45-55 and SNR of 20-25db. I can not receive the other two stations (WICZ and WIVT) and if prior experience is any indication can expect to lose the two I do receive once the foliage comes back. With that in mind I decided to try locating that antenna near an outside window that's looks towards the hilltop where the transmitters are. Grabbed a 25 foot piece of RG6 that I had laying around from my previous apartment and coupled it between the antenna and my TiVo. Now I receive WBNG, WICZ and WIVT with much better signal levels -- 85-95 on the meter and SNR of 32-35.

Unfortunately I lost WSKG when I did this. Signal level dropped to 30 and SNR is around 12-15db. Not enough to hold a good picture or even to see one most of the time.

I can't figure out why I would lose this channel with the antenna in a better spot. It doesn't seem like cable losses could come into play with such a short run of cable. For grins and giggles I tried an amplifier -- as I suspected it didn't manage to do anything besides drop the signal levels for the channels I do receive and place WSKG further out of reach. Could that cable I used be bad? It seems strange that it would work for one UHF channel (WIVT is UHF channel 34) but not one that's only 60mhz (WSKG is UHF channel 44) away.

It also seems strange that I can pick up WSKG with the antenna sitting in the middle of my house aimed at the wall but not with the antenna sitting by a window with a view of the transmitter and a extra 25 feet of cable.

Any suggestions for what I try next? I'm in an apartment and don't to antagonize the landlord by trying to mount an antenna on the roof. I'd really like to get away with something by a window or on my porch (which also has a view of the relevant hilltop) if at all possible.

Tower Guy · 1-Mar-2011, 9:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by binghamton

Any suggestions for what I try next?

Two suggestions on what to try;

The signal may be too strong, try a 10 db attenuator or use a 4-way splitter as a 7 db attenuator.

You could have FM interference. Try shortening the rabbit ears to 16" on each side (7 and 8 should still work that short) or use a HLSJ as an FM trap.

binghamton · 1-Mar-2011, 10:38 PM

Well, I feel like a bit of an idiot. Got the idea to try and hang the antenna out the window to see what would happen and noticed that the screen in the window was a metal mesh. Took that out and low and behold my signal levels went up on both of the UHF channels.

WSKG is still low but it's watchable now. These are the numbers I'm getting from my TiVo for all four channels:

WSKG (UHF 44): Signal meter 50 to 57, SNR: 22dB to 25dB
WIVT (UHF 34): Signal meter: 81 to 89, SNR: 31dB to 33dB
WICZ (VHF 8): Signal meter: 92, SNR: 34dB
WBNG (VHF 7): Signal meter: 94, SNR: 34dB

Still worried that I'll lose WSKG when the foliage comes out but I suppose I can't do anything but wait and see if it happens or not. If I do lose it I'll have to consider an outdoor antenna for the porch.

Wish I had caught onto the metal screen before I posted this and made three trips to the electronics store trying out different cables and amplifiers. I know better than that but didn't even notice the thing. What can you do?

John Candle · 6-Mar-2011, 12:52 AM

Is the building wrapped with any type or kind of metal siding?? Are the walls poured concrete?? Is the out side of the building brick?? Does the building have foil backed insulation?? Does the building have a metal roof?? Are there solar panels on the roof?? The Tv transmissions that are LOS Line Of Sight are Strong , an amplified antenna is not needed.

John Candle · 7-Mar-2011, 5:46 PM

At http://www.solidsignal.com , These will get you the reception fc-300lx , cm3010 or cm2016 and a tripod Tv stand out on the patio/balcony.

binghamton · 10-Mar-2011, 7:23 PM

Well, I finally got to do some further examination after getting unpacked and settled in. Unfortunately I have a neighbors house sitting directly between the towers and my building. Clearing this obstruction will not be possible. Even if I had permission to mount an antenna on the roof I could not achieve enough height without putting up a tower -- the offending structure is a three story building vs. my single story.

That said, I made some changes to my setup that improved my signal levels a bit. Hung the antenna off the ceiling of my porch to gain a few more feet in height and bought a better shielded cable for the run back to my TV. WSKG still has the occasional artifact and/or audio dropout but it's quite watchable. The only question is whether or not the pending arrival of foliage will degrade it to the point of being unwatchable.

Regarding your questions, no metal siding and the structure is wood framed. I can't answer the question regarding insulation though if I had to hazard a guess I'd say there isn't any at all on the enclosed porch. As it stands right now I've got my antenna in front of a window that's facing the towers in my town. The window frame itself is metal but my current antenna is small enough so as to not be blocked any by the frame. A larger antenna would have to contend with this bit of obstruction though.

The CM3010 appeals to me. Do you happen to know if the gain figures for it are published anywhere? The site you provided has them for the 2016 but not the 3010. The 2016 would look kind of silly on my porch but I'll accept that if it turns out to be necessary. It would make my decision easier if I could see a straight up comparison between it and the 3010 though.

GroundUrMast · 10-Mar-2011, 8:51 PM

If Channel Master publishes specs for the CM3010, they hide them deep...

It appears to be a single VHF dipole with two UHF elements in front. A rough estimate would put the forward gain around 2 or 3 dBd.

John Candle · 10-Mar-2011, 8:56 PM

The Tv transmissions at your location are strong. Do not use any type or kind of amplifier. The CM3010 has less gain on the UHF channels then the CM2016 , the VHF gain is about the same for both antennas. The UHF directional reception of the CM2016 is better then the CM3010 because of the the long boom of directors out front. . . The signals are strong at your location and the antenna does not need to go over the top of a three story house. Would it be possible to shoot around the house?? Move the Tv antenna so antenna looks around the right or left side of the house??

binghamton · 11-Mar-2011, 3:53 AM

Preaching to the choir on the amplifier, I've never known them to be useful for anything other than overcoming cabling and/or splitter losses. I tried it earlier but fully expected it to fail and was not at all surprised when it did.

No real way to shoot around that house. I'd have to put the antenna in my front yard and bury a cable back to the house. Don't think the landlord would go for that and it would look kind of foolish even if she would.

Sounds like the 2016 is the way to go. I'm going to sit on my existing setup and see what happens when the foliage comes into play. No sense in worrying about something that hasn't even happened yet. If it does degrade I'll pick up the 2016. If not I'll stick with the existing setup -- why mess with something that works? I will need to put a screen back in that window when summer arrives but I figure I can replace the metal screen with a nylon one. It will be just as effective at keeping the bugs out but shouldn't have much impact on RF.

Any other suggestions or advice for my situation? It seems straightforward enough.

John Candle · 14-Mar-2011, 11:30 PM

Here is a tv antenna that Will not look "silly" out in the front yard Mounted on a fence post . The coax cable can be tied to the fence , no need to run the coax cable underground. Go to the http://www.winegarddirect.com and look at the pictures of the different way this antenna is mounted FV-HD30