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Old 17-Feb-2012, 9:30 PM   #1
bmcgarry84
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Trying to get FOX

Recently decided to "cut the cord" so I ordered up a TiVo Premier and Mohu Leaf Antenna. I'm located only 5 miles from all the major stations I wish to receive but I'm having issues picking up FOX (and the CW which is about 30 miles away). The specifics:

- Mohu Leaf Antenna http://www.google.com/products/catal...ed=0CEwQ8gIwAg

- TV Fool Analysis http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...0b86856a4cd5b2

- I receive CBS 6.1, ABC 8.1, NBC 12.1, PBS 23.1, and PBS 57.1 with no problems. The Tivo signal strength shows around 80 for all these (not sure what it measures or how accurate it is).

- Trying to get FOX 35.1. Would like to get CW 65.1. Have moved the antenna to several indoor locations. Right now its outdoors (I know its an indoor antenna) facing NorthEast. It's an omnidirectional antenna.

Any help, suggestions, info is greatly appreciated.
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Old 17-Feb-2012, 10:17 PM   #2
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Tv antennas and Tv reception

Many are crying about the Sub Standard tuners in the TIVO's that Do Not work well with strong or weak tv transmissions and have Sub Standard multipath ( reflected signal ) filtering. Your location is Very Close to the tv transmitters , the signals are Very Strong and the multipath is Very Strong. Buy a 1296F variable attenuator from http://www.solidsignal.com to Dial Down the signal strength and multipath signal strength.

Last edited by Electron; 19-Feb-2012 at 2:58 AM.
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Old 17-Feb-2012, 10:18 PM   #3
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Tv antennas and Tv reception

How is the reception when the antenna is connected direct to the tv??
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Old 17-Feb-2012, 10:25 PM   #4
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Tv antennas and Tv reception

The advertising wording of the mohu leaf leads one to believe that there are Magic Tv Antennas. . There are No Magic Tv Antennas. It's a flat piece of metal foil in plastic.
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Old 17-Feb-2012, 10:35 PM   #5
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Your problem is a mystery to me. WRLH RF-26 (FOX) appears to be on the same tower as several other Richmond TV transmitters. They all transmit very strong signals to your location. It is curious that WRLH is allowed in the same market as adjacent channel WTVR RF-25 (CBS). Usually, the FCC requires at least one channel separation between stations in the same market--much less the same tower. Perhaps, the problem is that your primary tuner cannot deal with adjacent channel interference between WRLH and WTVR. Test the antenna using a different TV [or tuner] if you have one.

Oh, I overlooked the fact that your problem is with a TiVo. Not such a big mystery. There is a growing list of posters on this forum who have TiVo tuner issues. If Electron's recommendation does not solve your problem, then I recommend ditching the TiVo. Look into the ChannelMaster CM-7400 HD DVR or its older CM-7000PAL DVR.

Last edited by MisterMe; 17-Feb-2012 at 10:44 PM.
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Old 17-Feb-2012, 10:58 PM   #6
bmcgarry84
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Thanks for the quick responses! Not sure why I hadn't considered plugging in directly to the TV. Going to try that as soon as I get my daughter to eat her dinner.
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Old 18-Feb-2012, 2:11 AM   #7
bmcgarry84
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Hooked up the antenna to the TV tuner and I'm getting better reception. The CW is looking decent. FOX looks a little better but keeps cutting out (black screen for a few seconds)and is not really watchable still.

I know where these towers are and there are a handful of towers right next to each other. I guess my next step is to try the attenuator Electron mentioned.

I understand the leaf antenna isn't anything magical. It actually received many great reviews on Amazon. I knew that with the towers being close I didn't need anything crazy. The issue really is that my wife doesn't like the idea of rabbit ears or any other antennas indoors. Pretty sure my 2 yr old would have a field day.
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Old 18-Feb-2012, 4:06 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMe View Post
It is curious that WRLH is allowed in the same market as adjacent channel WTVR RF-25 (CBS). Usually, the FCC requires at least one channel separation between stations in the same market--much less the same tower.
Adjacent channels are actually the new norm with digital & seen in most every market.

Quoted from HDTV primer;

"Before 1998, the FCC would never allow stations in the same city to occupy adjacent channels. (There were exceptions for channels 4-5, 6-7, and 13-14 because gaps exist between those channel pairs.) But due to improved receiver technology, the FCC now allows any channel assignment.

When adjacent channel stations broadcast from the same tower or adjacent towers they must have an agreement that neither will exceed 10 times the otherís power."
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Old 18-Feb-2012, 4:55 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No static at all View Post
Adjacent channels are actually the new norm with digital & seen in most every market.

Quoted from HDTV primer;

"... But due to improved receiver technology, ..."
It appears that the TiVo tuner is the exception to that rule.
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Old 18-Feb-2012, 1:49 PM   #10
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I connected the antenna directly to the TV tuner and the channels seem slightly better with the CW being almost watchable. FOX still comes in pixelated and the screen will blackout periodically for a few seconds. Also, NBC 12.1 doesn't come in the best either.

I ordered the 1296F variable attenuator that was recommended by Electron in hopes that I can dial down the signal strength and correct my issues.
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Old 18-Feb-2012, 3:30 PM   #11
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Any chance you could fit this antenna in your space? After reading the reviews on the Mohu, I suspect you may just need a different/better antenna if the attenuator doesn't help.

Overload from towers 4 miles away is rare unless some type of amplification is used. I use the antennas in the photo to the left with even stronger signals & see no overload whatsoever.
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Old 19-Feb-2012, 1:20 AM   #12
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Unfortunately the reason I chose this antenna was to please my wife as she can't stand the idea of having any other antenna indoors. We are renting the house we are in now and intend on buying this summer, so I don't really want to put the effort into an outdoor setup just yet either.

Obviously if the attenuator that was suggested doesn't work, my wife will have to live with the alternative.
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Old 22-Feb-2012, 11:28 PM   #13
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Received the attenuator today and hooked it up. The box is only labeled "min" and "Max" so its not very informative. Turned it all the way down to minimum and signals got worse. Turned it all the way to maximum and signals seem to be better. Does Max mean the signal is being amplified or its applying Max resistance?
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Old 23-Feb-2012, 1:27 AM   #14
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The 1296F works counter-intuitively.

Min=Min signal (Max attenuation)
Max=Max signal (Min attenuation)
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Old 23-Feb-2012, 1:35 AM   #15
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Makes perfect sense! Thanks for the response.
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Old 23-Feb-2012, 2:58 AM   #16
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Aim a ANT751 antenna up toward the top of the Tv transmitting tower at about 58 degrees magnetic compass. With the antenna aimed up , it might help reduce the amount of multipath (signal reflections) off of buildings and objects. And even though an other helper here says there is no signal overload , I suggest adding a second attenuator in to the coax line to further reduce the strength of the multipath. Digital broadcast tv tuners have circuitry that compensate and filter out the out of phase/time of the multipath , however the circuitry can only correct so much and then it's overload time. And also Older (2003 and older) digital Tv's / tuners are not as good at filtering out multipath as the newest Tv's.
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Old 25-Feb-2012, 4:33 AM   #17
bmcgarry84
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So it's been a couple days and it seems like the attenuator hasn't really helped the FOX channel much, if at all. Still getting pixelated and is mostly unwatchable even though I'm getting good signal strength.

I'm still using the omnidirectional antenna. Should I try adding a second attenuator next? Or should I just go for the ANT751 to solve my issues? I should add that today I noticed about a mile from my house there are several large antennas and cell phone towers plus high voltage lines. They are Not quite in the direct line between my house and the towers, just slightly East. Could this be causing more multipath?
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Old 25-Feb-2012, 12:42 PM   #18
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I still recommend going with the ANT751. If you get it at Walmart, you can always return it if it doesn't work. I recently installed one in a commercial building just above the drop ceiling in Manassas. I was a bit skeptical with all the metal surrounding the antenna, but it works well.

The multipath is horrendous at my location only 4 miles from DC & the ANT 751 worked well when I tested it here. 2 TV towers are visible from here & I have never experienced overload with any of the antennas used.
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Old 25-Feb-2012, 1:57 PM   #19
bmcgarry84
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Thanks for the advice. I'm going to order an ANT751 through wal-mart. The price difference between them and other stores is quite huge. Unfortunately the closest store that stocks it is 35 miles away from me. Site-to-store time.
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Old 25-Feb-2012, 2:06 PM   #20
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Oh. Out of stock online.
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